[2dogs]

A common story heard many times- but I have to ask: has any Police Officer (or anyone else for that matter) EVER been killed "accidentaly" while "cleaning" a firearm? Or is this always a case of protecting the feelings of the survivors? :confused:



http://www.whnt19.com/Global/story.asp?S=1464084&nav=1VPtIHRX

Decatur Police Officer Dies While Cleaning Gun


A Decatur Police officer was killed Tuesday, apparently by his own service weapon.

William Robinson III served in the police department for 22 years. A spokesman with the Decatur Police Department says this was an accident, and happened while Officer Robinson was cleaning his gun. He was found dead on the floor of his garage.

Known as "Robbie" to Decatur Police and his friends, Robinson was 43 years old. He's survived by his wife and two children.

Police say there are no signs of foul play and that two handguns and a gun cleaning kit were found at the scene. It appears that a bullet fired from Robinson's police handgun is the one that killed him.

[El Tejon]

4 Rules? Never heard of them. Afterall, I'm a TRAINED police officer.:rolleyes:

[buzz_knox]

Sounds like they were covering up a suicide.

[WT]

Noted forensic pathologist Dr. Vincent DiMaio noted in his book "Gunshot Wounds" that he never found a case of someone accidently killed while cleaning a firearm. In every case, after thorough investigation, it was a suicide.

[XLMiguel]

Hmmmm, the manual for every gun I own starts the cleaning procedure narrative with something like 'unload and clear the gun and check to be sure it is unloaded . . .', likewise with my military training, Boy Scout merit badges, erc. Though I believe it is possible to hurt oneself by totally ignoring this bit of advise, I also bleieve that in 99.98% of these cases, it's suicide. Prayers for the family in either case.

[HankB]

I really, really don't see how one could shoot themselves fatally by accident while cleaning a pistol . . . maybe if you're really stupid you might shoot yourself in the foot or something, but at no point in MY cleaning procedure does the muzzle of a firearm with the action closed ever point at my head or torso, even AFTER I check to make sure it's unloaded . . . which is the first thing I do when it comes out of the box, pistol rug, or holster.

I agree that this smells like a suicide . . .

[Mark Tyson]

Sounds like a suicide to me, too. There is a big motivation to cover up a suicide - for insurance/financial reasons of the survivors, the social stigma of course, etc.

[TheeBadOne]

Sounds like they were covering up a suicide.
My 1st thought when I read this. I was waiting for someone else to post it.

[Quartus]

Either way it's pretty sad. If it WAS suicide, and they're covering it, I hope they do a good enough job that the insurance investigators don't prove suicide.

Money is no substitute for a husband and father, but it beats being without husband and father AND broke.

[rock jock]

I have heard of people shooting themselves while cleaning their guns, but never resulting in a death. Usually just a hole through their foot or a missing finger.

[KP95DAO]

Reminds me of a number of years ago when a "gunsmith" was shot in the head and died while "cleaning" a 1911. Yeah, sure you're right! This was in Norman, OK.

This would be akin to a racecar driver failing to negotiate a curve on a Interstate highway while driving the speed limit. It COULD happen; but, then again it is extremely unlikely.

[bountyhunter]

It is not only to protect the feelings and reputations of the family, but all of his life insurance and death benefits are forfeit if it is ruled a suicide.

[2dogs]

It is sad.

If all of us here can figure out that it is VERY unlikely to have been an accident, don't the insurance companies and coroner pretty much have to turn a blind eye?

[greyhound]

Sounds like he MIGHT have even set it up to look like an accident, setting out cleaning kit, 2nd gun etc.

No one will probably ever be sure.

[TheeBadOne]

If all of us here can figure out that it is VERY unlikely to have been an accident, don't the insurance companies and coroner pretty much have to turn a blind eye?
It's all speculation on our parts (although likely). Without a suicide note, or the party acting odd lately or speaking of suicide there is no indication of suicide to go on. Like already mentioned I suspect there were gun cleaning materials laying around. The coroner will look at the mechanizim of death and if it smells fishy he will blow the whistle.

[voilsb]

Sounds like a suicide, to me.

[DigMe]

My grandfather committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with a 12 gauge about 6 years ago. My uncle (his son) is a lieutenant investigator in the county in which he lived and was called to the scene. It was ruled an accident while cleaning. I've never bought that and I never will. I believe this is a common thing.

brad cook

[gunsmith]

NYPD BLUE last season!

[brownie0486]

Worked along side a Sgt. who was cleaning a new 1911 at the kitchen table and after cleaning had reloaded the gun sitting at the kitchen table.

Gun still had oils and cleaning solvent all over the weapon. He racked the slide to rechamber a round, the slide slipped, he had his finger on the trigger and shot himslef in the femoral artery in fron to his wife.

Belted the leg, 911, and he now limps everyday and is retired. The 230 gr. load traversed the thigh hitting the femoral, traveled down past his knee and exoted out the back of the calf.

The cut him from midthigh in the back of the leg to the ankle to repair the damage. Damned near killed him.

This would have been fatal had the wife not been a nurse and sitting right there.

Brownie

[feedthehogs]

There are accidents and then there is STUPIDITY

These so called gun accidents, whether to hide a suicide or other situation does nothing but add gasoline to the anti-gun fire.

The average non-gun owning person looks at the police when it comes to gun safety and handling.

If they feel the cops can't handle guns safely, what chance do we have?

I for one hope the truth is found out. It's time for an end to this crap.:fire:

[fourdeuce82d]

"shot himslef in the femoral artery'

My thought exactly- heard of a LEO doing that in his patrol vehicle, and dieing.

[P95Carry]

Everyone screws up --- fact of life. But it is the manner of screwing up that makes a difference. This ''cleaning the gun'' situation always makes me laugh ....... the results are sad and tragic but I laugh at the method of reporting .... as if this firearm miraculously let itself go!!

This particular case shows total disregard for ALL 4 rules ..... and thus is not accident at all ... it is negligence - and here sounds more like intentional negligence .. viz suicide.

If all 4 rules followed it is NOT possible to kill or maim oneself or anybody else ...... simple fact.

Incontravertible I'd say.

[geekWithA.45]

You, me and everyone who's "in the know" realize that death via firearm cleaning is possible but preposterous.

I'm normally in favor of the truth, but sometimes you just gotta let people have their illusions to bufferthemselves through tough times. People will come to the truth when they can handle it.

[Henry Bowman]

Geek, you're right -- except for when anti's use statistics on gun "accidents" as a basis for pushing more anti gun laws.

[Grey54956]

Yeah, this one stinks of suicide. Of course, it would be helpful to know where he was hit. If he wanted to make it look like an accident, it helps to set the stage properly, like the cleaning supplies, the second gun, etc.

I have cleaned an awful lot of guns, and I am at a loss for how one could accidentally kill oneself. I guess I can see the afforementioned story with the slide slipping and a leg injury, but this just seems strange.

Then again, I keep my S&W 586 for home defense, so I don't have to work a slide to load it.

[Obiwan]

Lets see....

Speaking hypothetically....

Want to commit suicide.....

Life insurance won't pay in the case of suicide.....

So...need to have an accident.....

Get out cleaning stuff before I eat a bullet....


Yeah.....Yeah.....hypothetically speaking.....of course;)

[geegee]

If all of us here can figure out that it is VERY unlikely to have been an accident, don't the insurance companies and coroner pretty much have to turn a blind eye?
In most cases, the surviving spouse of a suicide (as the beneficiary of the policy) will still receive the insurance payoff, as long as the policy has been in effect for two years or more. There could always be a clause in a policy which would prohibit that, e.g. a departmental group policy, but in most cases the beneficiary still receives the dough. Check your own policy and I believe you'll see it spelled out rather clearly. I do hope that no one reading this has just been pleased by this bit of information. geegee