Some basic Makarov reference material....


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woad_yurt
February 9, 2009, 12:13 PM
Why does everyone keep calling all of the 9X18 Com Bloc pistols "Makarovs?" Every time there's a thread about them, the first ten posts are involved in sorting out just what the h*** gun someone's talking about.

PA-63s, P 64s, CZ 82s are different guns from different makers. Personally, I like to know the make of gun I'm discussing as much as I want to know the make of car I'm driving. Calling something a "Makarov PA-63" is like saying "It's a Ford Chevy."

Also, the term "Walther clone" is very misleading. A slight, superficial resemblance with completely different internals does not a clone make. How about "Walther-sized?"

I thank you all for giving me a place to get this off of my chest. I posted the pictures below hopefully as a reference for those who'd prefer to know the actual names of the guns in question.

Note: I don't have a picture of my Feg or own a CZ 82 so I swiped those two pictures from Wikipedia.

Here's a Hungarian Feg PA 63:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/woad_yurt/Feg_pa63.jpg

This one's a Polish State Arsenal P-64:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/woad_yurt/p-6401.jpg

Next, a Czech CZ 82:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/woad_yurt/CZ_82.jpg

And, finally, an actual, real life, bona fide Makarov:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/woad_yurt/MakBulgarian02-1-1.jpg

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Girodin
February 9, 2009, 12:27 PM
A good addition to this thread would be brief descriptions of each pistol, highs and lows of each, relative value of each etc.

Pilot
February 9, 2009, 12:27 PM
Thank you. I think it is because real Pistolet Makarov pistols are becoming hard to find and the wholesalers/retailers are calling anything in 9MM Makarov caliber, "Makarovs". The only non-Mak in Makarov caliber that is worth anything is the CZ-82/83 or perhaps the Polish, Radom made P-83 Vanad, but neither of them are the Pistolet Makarov.

woad_yurt
February 9, 2009, 12:38 PM
Pilot:
I replaced the hammer, recoil and firing pin springs in my Feg and, I'm here to tell you, it's now also a great pistol. It's light, jam-less and very nice to shoot, all for under $200, total expense.

I can't yet form an opinion on the P-64 because Wolff has my hammer spring on back order.

Marlin 45 carbine
February 9, 2009, 12:42 PM
'Gunboards' forum has a very good Makarov page. anything you would like to know can be found there.
I like my Makarov - durable, reliable, easy handling, accurate enough and a little more 'punch' than the .380acp.

JonF
February 9, 2009, 01:32 PM
Woad, what sort of jams did you have before replacing the springs in the FEG? In my initial outing with my FEG, i found a lot of FT feed issues that may or may be related to the rough feed ramp. I just ordered the 15lb recoil and 9lb hammer spring which seems to be recommended by all to tame the recoil sting and lighten the trigger. I would think that the stronger recoil spring would have the added effect of being able to force the round into the chamber with more authority which may be able to alleviate my FTFeed issues. Any comments?

tinygnat219
February 9, 2009, 01:55 PM
Why? Because they are chambered in the 9MM Makarov round and a lot of people don't understand the difference between the Makarov pistol and guns chambered in the 9MM Makarov.

Methinks a sticky would be in order.

Pilot
February 9, 2009, 06:31 PM
Woad,

That's nice to know. Did you get all the springs from Wolff? I like all things Combloc, but never warmed up to the Walther PP clones even in its original German form. I have a WWII bringback Walther PP and never liked it due to its ergos. Glad you like your clones.

woad_yurt
February 9, 2009, 07:32 PM
Pilot:
What clones?

JonF:
Have you taken out the recoil spring and slowly cycled the slide to where it hangs up? Are there any tell-tale scratches or gouges on the non-feeding rounds? I guess a pistol with a really, really weak recoil spring wouldn't chamber a round. Maybe it's a sprung spring.

Pilot
February 9, 2009, 09:04 PM
Woad,

I ment my Walther PP, never liked it. As to the Combloc Walther clones, I just never shot them so maybe I am being too close minded. With some spring changes sounds like you've made them good to go. I am just a Mak purist. Love the Russian design in all its guises, EG, Bulgie, Russian and Chinese.

Olympus
February 10, 2009, 09:31 AM
I think you should edit the original post to include a picture of a Walther so everyone can compare each pistol to what a Walther looks like. My opinion is the CZ and real Makarov don't resemble the Walther in any way. Just a thought...

usp9
February 10, 2009, 10:30 AM
My opinion is the CZ and real Makarov don't resemble the Walther in any way

They resemble the Walther in that they are fixed barrel, DA/SA and use the Walther's take down method. The Walther even came in a 9X18 Ultra round. Other than that, there are many differences, but there is a certain similarity, especially in the P63, and FEG APK.

TripleL
February 10, 2009, 12:01 PM
This a good and informative thread. It's also a timeless one as more and more folks are introduced to different firearms than just the first one to which they were introduced. I suppose everyone has to start somewhere and this thread would be good one. The Makarov has gotten so popular and desirable that less informed folks who have not seen a real Makarov tend to confuse it with the more widely available PA63 and P-64, partly because the ammo is always correctly listed as 9x18 Makarov. But, once the difference is learned, you've got another convert to the Makarov. Once converted, you just can't have one. Not surprisingly, folks still seek and pay the price even though the prices for milsurp Maks have doubled and tripled over the last few years.

I think this thread is useful in making more and more people aware of the difference between the real Makarov and the "others" in a courteous and civilized manner without sounding like a snob. I'm willing to help keep this thread alive by replying to it once in a while just so it stays near or at the top of the first page.

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