Which Federal HST for Kahr PM9 3" Barrel?


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Mattole
February 9, 2009, 09:25 PM
I am trying to decide between the 124gr+p and the 147gr Federal HST ammo. Which would perform better in terms of penetration and expansion in my Kahr PM9 (3" barrel)? I know the general wisdom is to use lighter bullets for shorter barrels, but I have recently heard that in the case of some loads, the heavier bullet stays longer in the barrel and the powder combusts more completely. Any informed info regarding the Federal HST in short-barreled handguns (free of mere speculation, please) would be most welcome!

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DigMe
February 9, 2009, 09:38 PM
The "general wisdom" about light bullets and short barrels is based on flawed logic. 147gr bullets lose a lower percentage of velocity out of short barrels than the lighter bullets. Check out this thread that has some great and solid resources including commentary from Paul Nowak, the senior tech. specialist for Winchester LEO ammo division:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=23210

Mattole
February 9, 2009, 11:18 PM
Thanks for the link to the info, DigMe - that was a very interesting read. Just yesterday I shot some HST 124gr+p from my Kahr, and although I am not particularly recoil-sensitive, it was a handful (i.e., borderline downright unpleasant) to shoot. I will welcome a heavier bullet and it's reduction in recoil. Now we'll see if my PM9 likes the 147gr load..

deadhawg
February 9, 2009, 11:30 PM
My PM9 has functioned perfectly with everything I have fed it, including the 124, 124+p and 147 gr HST's. I can't say I have noticed much of a difference in recoil between the 124 and 147 hst's, but the 124+p flips a bit more. Just my opinion, but I believe that it is more important to put them in the right spot than which bullet you use, as long as it's a modern HP. Whichever you can shoot better would be the way to go, imho.

Kind of Blued
February 10, 2009, 02:22 AM
My PM9 has fed the 147gr. +P load flawlessly over 200 rounds.

I had no issue with the recoil, but put Pearce grip extensions on my flush mags simply because my skin was getting pinched between the grip and the baseplate. Much more comfortable with the grip extenders and you're more likely to get a solid grip on the gun in an emergency. Works well for discreet IWB carry, not so much for ankle or pocket carry.

I've also started carrying an eight round K9 mag as a spare in my pocket. They stick way out the bottom, but are reasonably comfortable to shoot with. I think once I put some XS night sights on here, this will be as close to perfect as possible for a carry gun in certain instances.

This thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=399106) includes a 147gr. +P HST that I shot from my PM9 into a jug of water. While water may slightly exaggerate expansion compared to human tissue or ballistic gelatin, these aren't bad results at all. Penetration was good as well.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=86176&stc=1&d=1223701183

CPshooter
February 10, 2009, 03:16 AM
Would this heavier bullet retains more velocity theory hold true for other calibers and short barrels (ie .45acp and 3" 1911s)???

Mattole
February 10, 2009, 01:24 PM
I was thinking of using the 'regular' 147gr, non-+P HST load, as that is what I am seeing as more available for purchase. Hope I just ordered the right thing..

Thanks for the tip on the Pearce grip extension. During my first time at the range with my PM9 the other day I had some serious hand flesh pinching between the grip and the mag plate.

The Kahr is certainly worth the challenge however - an accurate beast it is!

DigMe
February 10, 2009, 02:58 PM
CPShooter - it's not theory regarding the 9mm. It's purposeful bullet design and proven by careful chronographing. I don't know about the other calibers but I do know that greater sectional density tends to result in deeper penetration which is just something else to chew on.

NG VI
February 10, 2009, 03:11 PM
I say the same exact load thats best in lonmger barrels- The 147! Or 147+P if you don't mind it.

NG VI
February 10, 2009, 03:25 PM
Oh and I use the 180 in my Glock 27, and 147+P in both my 9mm pistols, one is a 3.8", the other is a 3.9". I also use 180 or sometimes 165 in my Glock 23, USP, and 40B.

jocko
February 10, 2009, 03:35 PM
THERE ALL GOOD ROUNDS, SHOT WHAT FEED PERFECT AND MOST ACCURATE.
I would not knock any of those mentioned. I do know that kahrs are sited in with 124 grain ammo,if that means anything..

gglass
February 10, 2009, 08:50 PM
Most people will use HST for self-defense only. As such, I would recommend the 147gr bullet for its wider expansion. I have yet to see where the 124gr +P 9mm rounds will penetrate ballistic gel as far as the 147gr either.

Go with what is known to work best.

DigMe
February 10, 2009, 09:41 PM
I have yet to see where the 124gr +P 9mm rounds will penetrate ballistic gel as far as the 147gr either.

That's just physics. The bullet with higher sectional density will penetrate further. I suppose there would be some velocity point at which the 124 would have equal penetration but the handgun bullets don't typically reach that velocity.

brad

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