[gun-fucious]

check out the new flash movie on their new site:
http://www.banassaultweapons.org/flashmovie.cfm/

the goof balls have it as a downloadable file here:
http://flash.ctsg.com/vpc/viralflash/vpcflash.swf

lookie lookie:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=517585

[Greg L]

Turn the rabid assault lawyers loose. Anyone have a "cease and desist" on file :D .

[Kaylee]

Cease and desist nothing.. I'd say Oleg is entitled to royalties from his work. Say, $50 per image, per download? :D

-K

[Quartus]

sic 'em.

[TarpleyG]

Funny thing, really. I can get to this trash site from my work computer but I cannot get to sites like glocktalk, etc. I sent a message to my boss asking why allowing this brainwashing garbage was okay but other stuff that wasn't necessarily PC is off limits.:fire:

GT

[StLGlocker]

I think I might download the movie. Several dozen times, in fact. Bandwidth is expensive. :D

Edit: What's with all the flashes of T&A? I expected the usual nonsense...

Their contention that terrorists come here to get weapons is just about the stupidest thing I ever did read. Why would Osama & Co. come here and get neutered semi-auto AR's and AK's when they have piles and piles of the real thing at home, and a lot cheaper to boot?

[gun-fucious]

found another!!!
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=517656

[atek3]

that movie accurately portrays the horrors of a society in which the lumpenmensch can possess sturmgewehr because after all:

http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/s_monopoly.jpg
(shamelessly borrowed without permission from Oleg's page :) )

atek3

[OF]

Gather evidence! Kill!!!!!

- Gabe

[El Tejon]

Gee, it would be such a shame if an IP attorney were advised of this!:D

What's the beef, chief? Mr. Wolf and the other young lady [edited thanks to Kaylee--I thought it was Tam, sorry] are using Brady-approved weapons, no?:confused:

What could they have against one complying with the VCCA of '94 (their law)?

[Kaylee]

um...pssst.... that ain't Tam.. different cute blonde gunny chick ;)

[Henry Bowman]

Oleg,

PM me if you have any desire to discuss a letter to them. IP law is what I do. Sounds like Pro Bono (for the good) to me.

[AJ Dual]

um...pssst.... that ain't Tam.. different cute blonde gunny chick

Yep, but she is definitely one of Oleg's models, I recognize her from other pics and posters.

[ballistic gelatin]

I just want to know where I can buy an AK for $169.
Bunch of :cuss: losers!

[gun-fucious]

different cute blonde gunny chick
oops!
yer right, i'm always getting my cute blonde gunny chicks confused!

;)

Mike Dillon is being informed of the shanghai of his images right now

[Brian Dale]

Oleg's statement, at http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/faq.html : Organizations or individuals promoting restrictions on ownership and use of firearms are prohibited from using any images from this site.
OK, we have willful and malicious theft of copyrighted photographs as part of a campaign against the Bill of Rights and against the owners of the photographs (It sounds like they've stolen Mike Dillon's stuff, too).

VPC's goal, in their own words, is at http://www.banassaultweapons.org/why_it_matters/ The Solution: To accomplish the goal of ridding our streets of assault weapons, the new law must ban all--not just some--semiautomatic assault rifles, pistols, and shotguns._ They can't make it any plainer than that.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Just went through it frame by frame - they use the picture of Oleg twice and then the picture of Oleg's blond model once (followed by the second picture of Oleg).

Wonder who the soldier is that they decided to equate with bin-Laden? I hope VPC markets the rest of its anti-gun message with similar hyperbole as it makes our job a lot easier.

I don't know who designed it; but the retard used the same gun pictures repeatedly but so briefly they don't even register. Whoever it is also has a hardon for TEC-9s and their descendants.

[Henry Bowman]

How do I download a copy of the flash movie for evidence? I seem to only be able to play it.

[BTR]

I assume the $169 aks would be the saiga or some variety of single-stack.

[ballistic gelatin]

I hope none of the organiztions listed receive funds from the government.
Isn't it considered a conflict of interest for a government funded organization to push some "political agenda"? That's like the government itself pushing the vote one way or another.

How do we stop them?

[Intune]

Thanks Henry, from gun owners everywhere!

[bogie]

Seek some serious lawsuit $$$, and either make a charitable donation to a _real_ firearms safety organization, buy more toys, buy better cameras, or pay for bandwidth.

At the very least, if we can get someone to do our legal stuff, it'll cost them $$ for their lawyers...

[gun-fucious]

if you go into macromedia's stand alone
"flash player" application there is
a menu item for opening a location

paste in:
http://flash.ctsg.com/vpc/viralflash/vpcflash.swf


from the file menu then use the "create projector"
command to make an archive copy

its a 1.9 meg file

if you play the movie you can pause it
via the control menu to step forward and back

when you open the window size you can see
image area outside the normal presentation window

the dillons blue press cover is all there

[buzz_knox]

I didn't watch the movie, but if they depict our fellow gun nuts in a manner that indicates that they are involved in the commission of a crime or is otherwise detrimental to them, then there's a nice defamation suit in there as well.

[chaim]

My favorite picture there, one I have no idea how someone can see as negative, is the picture of the uniformed soldier with a rifle along with a young boy (presumably his son) with a .22 rifle. It is actually kind of a nice picture. Then to seconds later juxtipose it with the Columbine shootings is just reprehensible.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...sue them, sue them, sue them. Isn't the VPC the renamed organization that was sued for the same sort of thing just a year or so ago and then just declared bankrupcy and reorganized under the new name?

[rock jock]

VPC - Vacuous Pinheaded Cretins

[lee n. field]

Directly contrary to Oleg's stated terms of use.

Sic 'em. "Cease and desist." All that good stuff.

[Brian Dale]

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...sue them, sue them, sue them. Isn't the VPC the renamed organization that was sued for the same sort of thing just a year or so ago and then just declared bankrupcy and reorganized under the new name? Can the people responsible for the theft be sued individually?

[buzz_knox]

The corporate officers can, as well as the individuals who actually stole the images.

[Brian Dale]

{Edited to change the Q I asked:} can they be prosecuted, as well?

[Derek Zeanah]

Aren't these the same guys that stole the image of psssniper?

[Carlos]

How do I download a copy of the flash movie for evidence? I seem to only be able to play it.

Henry, you should be able to right click over the url and SAVE TARGET AS to save a copy to your hard disk.

Sure would love to see the letter to these morons.

[Bill Hook]

Not only should Oleg take action, but Dillon and any other party that may have terms of use/copyright over their material should get a heads up.

It would be funny if DOZENS of pro-2nd parties sent them letters to cease and desist. :D

[Brian Dale]

including the United States Army. And are there penalties for posting a child's face on the Net, without the permission of his parents, in this inflammatory piece?

[Henry Bowman]

I'm on it, folks.
:evil:

[mrtgbnkr]

Is it therefore safe to assume that Oleg has seen this and is planning on taking action. I know that I don't expect details, but it sure would be good to hear that he knows...and that he's ticked wouldn't hurt my feelings either...:)

Give 'em hell Henry. And thanks!

Mark

[OF]

No mercy!

Thanks Henry, you're the man.

- Gabe

[Drjones]

I'll donate money to help sue them.

Something really should be done about this.

I really hope the kind sir who offered his services is serious. Something NEEDS to be done.

[longtom4570]

If isaw it right, 1 in 5 cops are killed in the line of duty with an assault rifle, but less than 1% of crimes involving guns are assault rifles:confused:
Am i missing something??

[spacemanspiff]

of course you are misssing something longtom!!! you are missing a non-functioning brain! send your current functioning brain to Acme Brainloads for a replacement.

vpc needs to go down. they need to be tied up in court for copyright infringement for the next ten years.

[Skunkabilly]

If isaw it right, 1 in 5 cops are killed in the line of duty with an assault rifle, but less than 1% of crimes involving guns are assault rifles
Am i missing something??

As for the 1%, there's:
crimes involving assault rifles
crimes committed with assault rifles.

COMMITTED WITH is much lower. Crimes INVOLVING assault rifles are much higher. It can mean anything from the bad guy used a MAC-10 to commit the crime to, the bad guy had a SPAS-12 mod for Rainbow Six at home :rolleyes:

[Diesle]

EDIT - Actually, just right hand mouse on the link below and select SAVE TARGET AS...

URL to the File : http://flash.ctsg.com/vpc/viralflash/vpcflash.swf



Diesle

[Kaylee]

Am i missing something??

classic case of picking your data to make your point.

Let's say 1 in 5 of all LEOs KILLED in the line of duty (not in gunfights but uninjured, not wounded, not never got in a gunfight at all, but were actually KILLED) were killed by someone using ANY centerfire semi-auto longarm.

Now... let's say that ALL of those deaths -- while tragic -- are so rare that they compromise only a small fraction of what the media likes to call "gun crime".

Both statistics can be true, yet lend remarkably different perspectives on the issue.

figures never lie, but liars sure can figure
Twain, right?

-K

[Moparmike]

I fully encourage suing these anti-gun scum so far into the ground that China suddenly is the ground beneath them.:cuss: :banghead: :fire:

I wonder if anyone can make them prove that the facts and figures they use are in any way accurate?:scrutiny:

[Zundfolge]

If isaw it right, 1 in 5 cops are killed in the line of duty with an assault rifle, but less than 1% of crimes involving guns are assault rifles
Am i missing something??

Not quite. The flash movie said "1 in 5 cops slain in the line of duty where killed with assault weapons"

VPC and other antis have started using the term "Assault Weapon" to describe any semi automatic or military surplus firearm (that includes things like Ruger 10/22s and M98 Mausers).

The only guns that don't count as "assault weapons" in their twisted language are revolvers and shotguns.



Also, they had to make up the BS about terrorist handbooks telling terrorists to buy "assault rifles" in the US, because you can buy several cases of full auto AK47s in most of the 3rd world for what one semi auto AR-15 would cost here in the US ... plus smuggling guns out of the US ain't exactly easy.


I see a LOT of copywrited images in that thing ... several images from Rock River Arms' web site in addition to Oleg's.

Time to warm up the lawyers.

[Airboss]

Thanks to all that are gearing up for this fight
As we say in Texas:
"Stomp em in to a Mud hole"

[gun-fucious]

there is also the previous issues of:

1) images from Browning's advertising included in the VPC Report on Lead
http://www.ewg.org/pub/home/Reports/poisonouspastime/poison.pdf

2) the VPC use of Travis McGees image from his Army days
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34216

3) the VPC use of the image of the "Vote from the Rooftops" Tshirt
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=83936C

4) VPC abusing the Tradename "Tupperware"
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=66032

kind of points to a rather cavalier attitude toward copyright

[4v50 Gary]

I disagree with the message but I thought they did an excellent presentation of their propaganda. Innocents Betrayed is our counter.

[Standing Wolf]

Ironic that anti-Second Amendment bigots depend on Second Amendment supporters for their material.

[El Rojo]

I believe I saw an Armalite add as well. Come on Oleg, are you being quiet because your lawyer told you to?

[Scottmkiv]

I liked the pic of the pre ban and post gun ban, which is apparently supposed to convince us that we need to renew the assualt weapons ban. Its just hard to get my mind around that one, I tell ya.

[Kharn]

Isnt this like hunting over a baited field? :D

Kharn

[cuchulainn]

Isn't the VPC the renamed organization that was sued for the same sort of thing just a year or so ago and then just declared bankrupcy and reorganized under the new name? No. VPC has been around for about 10 years -- the founders came from Consumer Federation of America, and the two organizations are still close.

Perhaps you are thinking of The Million Mom March's merger with Hangun Control Inc to become The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence United with the Million Mom March (ain't that a mouthful).

[El Tejon]

Happy Bob asked "can they be prosecuted?" I presume you mean criminally???

Since Henry the white-shoe IP lawyer gets the copyright/trademark stuff, allow the tilecrawler to answer that one [drum roll]: it depends.

Several potential federal and [depending on which state] state statutes involved which could be triggered. USA's call, sir.

[natedog]

!!!

The flash movie said that one in five officers killed in the line of duty is killed by an assault weapon. True or False? Sounds like BS to me...

[BHPshooter]

Has Oleg seen this yet? I sure hope he puts the hurt on these people, who obviously can't read. Or they don't care.

Go get 'em!!!

Wes

[Brian Dale]

Bartholemew Roberts and tcdrennen have pointed it out at the parent thread of this one,

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=518230#post518230 Bart. Robts. wrote: It is based on a VPC study where VPC got to define assault weapon more broadly than current federal law so that it encompassed pretty much every semi-auto longgun made. tcdrennen added: Worse than that, they classify HANDGUNS that MAY ACCEPT > 10 round mags as "AW". So unless it's a bolt rifle, pump shotgun, or revolver, it's a "AW" by VPC's count. Your olfactory sense works just fine. Their goal is stated at:

http://www.banassaultweapons.org/why_it_matters/
To accomplish the goal of ridding our streets of assault weapons, the new law must ban all--not just some--semiautomatic assault rifles, pistols, and shotguns._ The bovine byproduct and the ultra-flashy production style are means to that end. I expect that they're just going to escalate their activity until the AWB sunsets, with no regard for rights, logic, facts or the harm that their actions will cause.

To repeat my earlier comment: somewhere in Hell, Leni Riefenstahl is laughing.

{edited for spelling by Happy Bob}

[Freedspeak]

Looks to me as if they have the pre and post ban pictures mixed up also, the post ban mac? (it ran fast could have been a tech) seemed to have a bigger mag!

[C.R.Sam]

I just sent a heads up to Dillon.

Lookin pretty good so far but let us try to keep this thread on The Very High Road. I have a hunch there are going to be a lot eyes upon us.

Did somebody actually get the movie archived ??? I can't.

Sam

[Bill Hook]

kind of points to a rather cavalier attitude toward copyright

Hello!!! When did leftists ever object to taking from others when it suits their needs? ;)






:barf: :barf: :barf:

[Oleg Volk]

Henry Bowman is helpingme with creating communiques to VPC and their ISP.

[Brian Dale]

Excellent.

{sigh of relief that you're here}

:)

[C.R.Sam]

:D :D :D

Sam

[sm]

<bends ear> I think I hear a "wut wo" out in cyberspace
:D

[Devonai]

Perhaps we should create the "Help Oleg Stick It To The VPC" legal fund.

[0007]

Oleg - Forget the "communications", go for the subpoenas...

[Phyphor]

my home machines... If possible, I'll convert it to .mpg for easy viewing (but I'll still keep the original .swf file, as it's evidence... )

At this very moment I'm making a couple of copies of said evidence... I sure wouldn't want anything bad to happen to it..... :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Skibane]

Isn't the VPC the renamed organization that was sued for the same sort of thing just a year or so ago and then just declared bankrupcy and reorganized under the new name?

IIRC, the Million Mom March got called on their claim of being a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation, which is tax-exempt. Problem is, you can't be tax-exempt if you're actively spreading propaganda:

"A § 501(c)(3) organization may not engage in carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities."

I don't know whether VPC is also claiming § 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status. However, I would be surprised if plenty of VPC- or AGS-affiliated state anti-gun organizations (http://w3.agsfoundation.com/resources.html) were not still claiming it. Plenty of opportunities to do some damage to the anti-gun side here!

[k say]

;-)

[Kevlarman]

I've got a copy saved on my harddrive too, should anyone need it.

[Boats]

Incidentally, they have equated Oleg with "cop-killers, terrorists and mass murderers" in print, as they have linked his image of choosing an "assault weapon" with their libelous words.

[cslinger]

saving it to our harddrive as evidence is that we could have just as easily doctored it to show what we want it to show. Not saying that is the case I am just saying that should VPC get rid of the movie and then you provide your copy of said movie as evidence, If I was the VPC lawyer I would simply contend that it was inadmissable because it simply could be a doctored copy of their "ORIGINAL" movie.

Best you can hope for is a cease and desist which is fine. I would just let the world know that VPC stoops to theft and lies to get promote their agenda. We know it, just let the world know.

Now go get em boys.

[TheEgg]

The VPC website does claim to be a 501(c)(3).

IANAL, but it would seem that they are very close if not over the line in what they are allowed to do.

Any tax lawyers on THR that can comment?

[cuchulainn]

I'm not a tax lawyer, but 501(c)(3)s are allowed a certain amount of lobbying. see: http://www.nonprofits.org/npofaq/16/34.html

Also don't confuse lobbying ("we should pass gun control") with political advocacy ("we should elect Hillary"). The rules are more strict on the latter.

[OF]

IIRC, the Million Mom March got called on their claim of being a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation, which is tax-exempt. Problem is, you can't be tax-exempt if you're actively spreading propaganda:Our very own Jim March (and others) were at the tip of the spear on that one. You can thank Jim for putting the Million Morons out of business.

- Gabe

[bogie]

I do perceive a fair amount of libel here.

Oleg needs a better camera.

And a better studio.

And a farm to go shooting on...

[spacemanspiff]

saving it to our harddrive as evidence is that we could have just as easily doctored it to show what we want it to show. Not saying that is the case I am just saying that should VPC get rid of the movie and then you provide your copy of said movie as evidence, If I was the VPC lawyer I would simply contend that it was inadmissable because it simply could be a doctored copy of their "ORIGINAL" movie.
the ISP for VPC probably would have all the content the VPC has put on their website archived.

[BryanP]

my home machines... If possible, I'll convert it to .mpg for easy viewing (but I'll still keep the original .swf file, as it's evidence... )

I don't think you can directly convert it to an MPG file. However, since it's really just a series of still jpeg images strung together with an MP3 soundtrack, there are numerous tools (freeware, shareware, and commercial) that will allow you to extract all of the images and the soundtrack back to their original component files. I just did that with a freeware flash extractor available here:

http://www.newfreeware.com/graphics/1681/

What I ended up with is a 1.5MB MP3 file and 129 stills totalling 1.58MB.

Extracting them is quite simple, but if anyone (esp. Oleg or Henry Bowman) need copies just PM me.

[Mute]

The best way to document this is to use a video camera to record going to the website and running the flash movie. Simple as that.

[atek3]

good point mute.

[cuchulainn]

the ISP for VPC probably would have all the content the VPC has put on their website archived.

Not to mention the "Wayback Machine" at www.archive.org.

[iamkris]

I'm in for the legal fund. Who's collecting?

[gun-fucious]

Henry Bowmans going pro bono so theres no need for a fund yet

unless we have an ammo fund for shooting Oleg's new Barrett that the VPC is going to buy

:evil:

[MagKnightX]

"President Bush, you are either for allowing killing machines on the streets of America, or against allowing killing machines on the streets of America."

Wow! The VPC is against letting Feinstein and Schumer kill us by taking away our right to defend ourselves! That's... oh, wait...

Seriously, though:

From a-human-right's FAQ:

May I use pictures from a-human-right.com?
Yes, please do. Reproduction of the unaltered images in electronic media or print is permitted and encouraged, provided that a by-line is given and that the images are used to promote resposible gun ownership. Please check with me first: some of the images have other conditions attached to them. If you wish to produce graphics based on my posters or photographs, make sure to check with me, too. Organizations or individuals promoting restrictions on ownership and use of firearms are prohibited from using any images from this site.
Clicking on most pictures will load a larger graphic optimized for 640x480 monitors. "Hi-res" tags link to 200-300KB high-quality JPEGs suitable for printing. As I am gradually acquiring a substantial library of gun photos, you can write and request specific images.

If you would like to modify my images or use them as elements in more complex compositions, please email me. I try to be helpful, but I would also like to make sure that the uses are consistent with the goals of this web site.

Now, I don't THINK Oleg gave them permission to use it in an anti-gun composition, and to use it in one of those, they would require permission. Also, they gave no by-line. Thus, they are violating Oleg's reproduction conditions and violating copyright. Artwork is automatically copyrighted, whether you file for it or not*, so he IS protected. Lawsuit time, methinks? Especially if they actually engaged in libelious activities against Oleg, and used his copyrighted works in those.

<does a little dance of joy at the thought of the VPC going away>

*Filing a copyright just makes it easier to defend.

[Zundfolge]

<does a little dance of joy at the thought of the VPC going away>

Well enjoy the dance, but I don't see this killing VPC.

At best Oleg (and some others) will get cheques and the offending flash movie removed from their site ... more then likely you'll see the flash movie removed and thats it.

[lee n. field]

1) images from Browning's advertising included in the VPC Report on Lead

Beretta, IIRC, nailed them for use of the image of one of their pistols.

[Intune]

Show a copy of todays paper in the video to establish timeframe. Z, I think it will depend on a lot of factors ie: how many viewed their site while it was up, etc. I think a biggie for a judge or jury is the fact that they went to a site totally OPPOSED to their standpoint and STOLE images & text. Maximum pain & suffering to Oleg was their intention by such theft. There are tens of thousands of other free pictures available to them. They chose to make an EXAMPLE of him & his defiance of "reasonable" restrictions.

NO QUARTER GIVEN EVEN IF ASKED. Removing the pics is not enough! Great harm has been perpetrated upon Oleg & his image within the community. Intentionally. They have declared war on law-abiding citizens. Do we run away or have mercy upon the enemy and allow it to slink away, nursing its wounds only to arise and create havoc at a later date of its own choosing? NAY! SLAY THE BEAST! (Metaphorically speaking, of course.)

How's that? :cool:

[bogie]

With a libel suit, you have to worry about the concept of malice.

The thing is, do these people FEEL malice? Or are they doing this because they feel it is the RIGHT thing to do? After all, they know what is good for you.

[Daedalus]

How interesting that they violate Oleg's intellectual property rights in their quest to violate his second amendment rights. Oh, this is another post saying "SIC EM" :evil:

[lee n. field]

I'm in for the legal fund. Who's collecting?

If need be, I'll kick in a few bucks, and spread the word.

[Aikibiker]

I feel dirty after going to that site. It does however have a nifty counter to the end of the AWB off to the left. 346 days left guys.

[CGofMP]

Henry - Did you get a copy of that movie yet?

Charles

[Ryder]

do these people FEEL malice? Or are they doing this because they feel it is the RIGHT thing to do?

They are doing it because they hate guns. They hate people having the right to own guns. This is a HATE CRIME. What motivates a hate crime other than malice?

[The Undertoad]

Wow, that sickened me... :(

Those people have so much fear, it's scary! Oleg, I love your site and I hope you get somewhere with this...

[bogie]

Yeah, some hoplophobes have so much fear going that they're downright scary... Coupla years ago, a fellow told me that if he knew someone was carrying concealed in a restaurant, he'd take a steak knife and stab them "before they could shoot someone." I just couldn't convince him that there was a difference between criminals and legitimately armed folks...

[buzz_knox]

With a libel suit, you have to worry about the concept of malice.

Oleg isn't a public figure so malice isn't required. Further, they know from his website that he is not engaged in unlawful activities, and thus placing his image in a context where someone would link him with criminal activity would indicate malice. It's the equivalent of intentionally showing one person's photo when discussing criminal charges against another person.

[Mike Irwin]

OK, that's it.

I've been putting it off for quite some time, but no longer.

It's time to buy an AK-style rifle.

[MagKnightX]

AR-15 for me. Just because there are more accessories for it, and because I can probably be more accurate with it.

[Moparmike]

Yep. I think that its time to get me one of those evil assault-style weapons too. Right after I get one of those self-aware self-animate murderous acting-beyond-my-control pistol thingies.:evil: :p

[Dannyboy]

I don't think the libel suit would fly. It's more of a false light issue. The captions don't say that Oleg is a murdering criminal, they just have his picture next to similar words. This is quite timely, actually. In my law class I asked about whether or not there was a possible libel suit over Al Franken's newest edition of leftist propaganda, with the title being Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them and the pictures of O'Reilly, Bush, and Cheney. Basically, he said the same thing I just said at the beginning. Sure, the inference is there but that's all.

[buzz_knox]

I don't think the libel suit would fly. It's more of a false light issue.

Whatever works.

Oh, word of advice about law professors: always check their political bent and take that into account when considering their statement of what the law is. In my law school, even black letter law was "spun" to fit the agenda of the professor. A few were straight forward, but not all.

[boyd425]

Gun fucious said:
Henry Bowmans going pro bono so theres no need for a fund yet

unless we have an ammo fund for shooting Oleg's new Barrett that the VPC is going to buy

To wich Boyd replies:
It's -great- that Henry is willing to step up to the plate. B u t the time to set up an escrow account is -now- not later when this has blown over. It not only covers Henrys costs, so that he doesnt have to wonder about taking food off his table the next time he runs across something like this, but it lets people feel (and well actually BE) involved in righting this wrong. It is a "good thing(TM)". If Mr. Bowmans really willing to do this, I hope he'll take my suggestion and make the first part of his pro bono work the establishment of an escrow account to be used for this (or for as broad a pro gun legal use as he can do...). Just IMO
Boyd Kneeland

[Sven]

Where is Oleg on this issue?

[Moparmike]

Where is Oleg on this issue?He is probably playing the quiet game at the instruction of Mr. Bowman. Probably a good move too.:)

[Dannyboy]

Oh, word of advice about law professors: always check their political bent

I'm not too worried about that with this guy. I'm the third person in the family to have him and we all agree, so far, at least that he's a straight shooter. Very professional.

[Zedicus]

One word!

"Sue!";)

[OEF_VET]

Oleg,

After you're done suing the pants off of VPC, and they cut you a nice, fat check, can I get invited out to shoot whatever new toy you buy with the money? I'm thinking you should do the right thing and invest $200 of it in a Class III tax stamp and the best full-auto toy you can afford with the remainder. That'll show 'em.

Good luck fighting the good fight. Henry, you're the man. Let us know if you need any money to help with this. This would be a better way to contribute to the RKBA fight than just sending money to Wayne LaPierre.

Frank

[Oleg Volk]

Some items are going to out VPC and their service provider shortly, thanks to HB's help.

[Orthonym]

Aaarrrggh! What an outrage! Go get 'em, Oleg!

[bogie]

Bumpage, and Oleg, keep us informed. I feel like I came home, and found that someone had creeped my apartment.

[alan]

TarpleyG:

Re the question you were going to put to your boss, what sort of answer, if any, did you get?

[Combat-wombat]

-Bump!-

Give 'em hell!

[Moparmike]

I hereby and forthwith request that this thread be made a float.:)

[Combat-wombat]

same here!

[jimpeel]

Perhaps VPC should go here for a quick study.

http://www.whatiscopyright.org/

[Orthonym]

Any substantial news so far?

[Justin]

Just watched that little flash movie.
I noticed that some of the content was taken directly from the websites for various manufacturers, most notably Armalite and Olympic Arms.

Seems to me there are two ways to look at the VPC's violations:

A) Intellectual property violations, ie taking what is not yours and using it to make a profit (or in this case, solicit donations.)

B)Libel issues, Oleg and others who showed up in the video being portrayed as criminals.

Personally, I think the IP route is the way to go. For those in the know, would it be worth it to contact the manufacturers to let them know that their stuff is being used without their permission?

[Phyphor]

...but I think these clowns are in much need of the Sharp Stick Treatment.....
:evil:

[Boats]

BUMP

Any word?

[Leatherneck]

Message sent? Response yet?

I haven't heard any secondaries...:evil:

TC
TFL Survivor

[Orthonym]

Could you just give us a message telling us that you can't tell us anything, or something like that?

[Oleg Volk]

VPC had not responded. Considering the next steps now.

[Bill Hook]

Anyone know if Olympic, Dillon, et. al. have been informed?

Hopefully VPC hasn't responded b/c of a flood of cease and desist letters.

[Dave Markowitz]

Personally, I think the IP route is the way to go. For those in the know, would it be worth it to contact the manufacturers to let them know that their stuff is being used without their permission?

If there are valid claims under both IP and defamation law, then the proper route to go would be to include both as separate counts in the complaint. That way, the claims are preserved and you increase you chances on prevailing upon one, the other, or both.

[gundam007]

know what, im gonna make a pic of me holding like 10 replica rifles so my face will be all over the net... then I can sue (p.s. Im a minor, so much the better)

[Orthonym]

could you explain a bit more discursively just what you meant there? (Oh, BTW, new members must buy ammo for the rest of us:p )

[gundam007]

I will get as many realistic look alike fire arms as i can, take a pic of me holding them like rambo, post it so they use it so i can sue [/ my evil anti-gc plan]

[Brian Dale]

Ummm, gundam, publicly writing that you'll "post it so they use it" beforehand might kinda toss your chances of winning that lawsuit out the window, neh? Fun to think about pitching in, though.

Oh, and make mine 12ga., target loads, if you please.

Seriously, though: Welcome! :D

[Combat-wombat]

any updates so far?

[Oleg Volk]

Talked to Henry Bowman, he's not sure we can sue and win. Also talking to Rich Lucibella and others. Shold have an update in a few days.

[Bill Hook]

Class Action?

[Oleg Volk]

Here's a copy of VPC response. (http://www.olegvolk.net/vpc.pdf) Suggesions?

[Moparmike]

Sounds almost threatening at the end.

Unfortunately, I dont think there is much you can do except grumble unless you have a lawyer on the "tip-top" of his game in the world of copyright infringement.


While this may turn out to be a "lesson learned" type of situation, you may be able to prevent it in the future. Can you place a "gate" page on your site where "terms and conditions" are agreed to before you enter the site? One of those being that you (The Webpage Viewer) are expressly forbidden to copy any images and use them without express permission from one Mr. Oleg Volk?

Just an idea. Its a shame that we have come to that point in our society.:(

[Oleg Volk]

Hmmm...currently, that injunction is in he FAQ. I could add the copyright info to the bottom of every web page. Current options include raising funds to hire an lawyer, turning over the site to a new owner who would sue or doing nothing (which woul dlikely open me up for future violations with inaction in regards to this one as a precedent)

[Jeff White]

Oleg,
I think I would put a users agreement page that you must click on to get into the site. I'd also put the reason why you now have to sign on to access the site right on that page.

Jeff

[El Rojo]

Well I think that is good enough. The VPC lawyers had to waste their time and resources putting that all together. That means the VPC will have to keep paying that lawyer to write such letters. If it is pro-bono then still that liberal's time has been wasted. Overall, anything to screw with them is time well spent in my opinion.

[Bill Hook]

All aggrieved parties should write cease and desist letters.

Oleg should get his models releases done in such a way that they retain all rights to their images when not used by him, such that they become party to the suit.

[geekWithA.45]

I'm not surprised they didn't roll over at all.

My suggestion:

Recall general orders regarding capture and escape:

"If captured, it is an officer's duty to escape. If escape is not possible, officers should conduct themselves such that the enemy must expend the maximum resources possible"

To that end, whatever can be done on our end for cheap that costs them more to respond to, the better.

The tone of the letter sounded pretty standard to me: "Behold my might, that none can stand against", which is yer basic tactic: make your opponent believe your position is unnassailable.

Whether it actually is or not is beyond me to determine, but requires a copyright lawyer.

As I understand fair use, it only applies to criticism or review of the work.

In this case, I think it's pretty clear from the context that Oleg's art is incorporated into an entirely new work, and is NOT a review or criticism of A Human Right .com, and the assertion that they are making the opposite point doesn't make it a critique.

I'm also thinking that because one of the images is Oleg himself, you'll have additional leverage.

[voilsb]

Here's a copy of VPC response. Suggesions?Well, it basically reads as "even though it is expressly in violation of the terms with which you make your images available, we are in the right because we're criticizing your viewpoint and the images are only displayed for a second at a time."

Depending on the time and money involved, I would try to take it farther with them. Maybe go on the defamation/libel side of it, and also with the expressly written limit on who you're allowing to use your works.

Also, they make an exception that since your sight in informinative, it's not art. Unfortunately, although the site content is informinative, the photography is very much an art. Anybody can take pictures and come up with witty phrases. Your photography goes well beyond that and into the realm of Art.

[Bruce H]

Well first trying to do everything all legal and proper got you absolutely nowhere just as they new it would. They know most don't have the time and recources to argue and fight with them. By this reasoning they can get away with just about anything they want. Witness their past actions with lies and inuendo pointed at various people and situations. All that is left is plan B, stomp them. Make them afraid to breathe. Hunt them down and thrash them severely. They have to learn actions have reactions.

[Devonai]

I agree with El Rojo. No matter what the outcome, VPC was forced to address the issue via their attorney. Most likely they will avoid using images belonging to Oleg from now on. If only there was more weight to the current issue.

[jimpeel]

Basically, there is an express prohibition in your website that forbids the use of your images by any entity that is in opposition to the website. there is no caveat saying "Unless, of course, you are using my images under the Fair Use Doctrine". The prohibition is specific and unambiguous in its language. There is an implied contractual agreement to any who enter the site and use its images.

Could you go after them for a possible breach of contract?

You should send another "Cease and Desist" demand with that fact pointed out in big capital letters. Also send the C&D to their ISP.

Regardless of their use of the Fair Use Doctrine, they are in violation of the terms of use of the images on the site.

[PATH]

Well I am willing to contribute a c-note to any fund being set up.

[Geech]

I'm reasonably certain that the fair use doctrine supercedes any "Terms of Service" you have. This isn't just Oleg, here, there's a lawyer involved and he seems to think the VPC put up a pretty good argument.

[Boats]

I'd prefer to fire back personally had I the technical talents.

Parody their entire effort. Such a parody in part caused Handgun Control Inc. to change its name. Get images of their leaders, make up preposterous fake study titles, get plenty of images of sheep, and cows being led to the slaughter, and make your own flash movie about their underhanded stupidity.

Fair use and all that claptrap. Begin with their "V" logo.

[cordex]

Oleg, if you know a lawyer that thinks they can take this to the next level, I'll contribute what I can to help offset their fee. I bet plenty of other THR members would do the same.

[Sportcat]

Doesn't it say on the front of your site that the images can be used for PRO -RKBA sites?

[gun-fucious]

Oleg,

Eugene Volokh expressed some interest in the issue
when i emailed him when this first cropped up.

http://www1.law.ucla.edu/~volokh/

Eugene Volokh teaches free speech law, copyright law, the law of government and religion, and a seminar on firearms regulation policy at UCLA Law School. Before coming to UCLA, he clerked for Justice Sandra Day O'Connor on the U.S. Supreme Court and for Judge Alex Kozinski on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.


i would send Eugene the .pdf

[Henry Bowman]

Sorry about being "radio silent" for so long. It has been necessary.

Folks, it is not that VPC'c attorney has made good arguments (much could be debated or refuted). An important factor to consider in filing a copyright infringement lawsuit is that, unlike most other civil litigation in the U.S., copyright infringement has a "loser pays winner's attorneys fees" rule. Also, most proponents of the 2nd Amendment respect the 1st Amendment, even if the reverse isn't true.

All for now. I am continuing to work with Oleg on this.

[Oleg Volk]

Eugene Volokh has other things on his plate right now.

[Henry Bowman]

True, but I would welcome Mr. Volokh's thoughts or comments if he cared to share them. Gun-fucious, do you have some connection with or access to him?

[gun-fucious]

i have corresponded with Eugene and on his list for awhile now

Eugene even blogs some of my "discoveries"

his response back when i emailed him this THR page was
"interesting"

i would send him an email via his link on the page i posted

[357to44]

Legal considerations:
(1) One of the stolen Oleg's pictures is being sold on mugs/t-shirts/mouse pads for some time --> commercial loss
(2) VPC never quoted a single word ("information"), they just stole art
(3) The movie, indirectly, is used for VPC fund raising (commercial gain?)

Actions:
- Posting to newsgroups so that whoever searches for VPC or founding/funding organizations would find the truth on stealing
- Sending letters to founding/funding organizations with the idea of their responsibility; and then to those org's founding/funding organizations (are they legally liable too?)

[Kharn]

357to44:
Could you provide a link to the image they are selling on stuff? I couldnt find it on their website.

Kharn

[cordex]

Kharn,
I think he's saying that Oleg is selling 'em, not that VPC is.

[Barbara]

They cited a case brought by Hustler in their letter?

How unbelievably appropriate.

[bogie]

Well, it's been 20 years since my course in broadcast/journalism law, the majority of which seemed to revolve around libel and slander, but hey, I got an "A" in it...

The way I see it, they're using a picture of Oleg (and of other folks...), portraying him in a bad light, insinuating that he's a violent killer type. To my semi-informed mind, this is a clear case of libel. The ownership of the image doesn't even come into play with that.

[Cybercop]

Has anyone considered using the DMCA in this instance? After all it is designed to protect digital copyrighted works. After all the MPAA/RIAA uses it to great effect. You also get a great sound bite out of it. I've only delt with the RIAA on one occasion on a case so I'm not certian of the specifics. However I have to go to the Federal offices tomorrow morning and I'll check.

Jim

[357to44]

Nobody steps forward to run the fund... Wouldn't it help to quickly transform this Board into a subscription-based one, with different levels and options for members to designate $$?

Server and legal expenses are probably not the only ones that are here to stay, and the Board (or a-human-right site) don't accept paid ads... Non-profit status would make it easier for corp's to make donations.

[Henry Bowman]

The host for VPC's website was sent a DMCA take-down demand. It was ignored. The ISP specializes in hosting web sites for liberal advocacy groups. Their motto is "Kumbya, dammit." No kidding.

[bogie]

Actually, I think that Oleg should run changing banner ads, much like benchrest.com does. They don't get in the way, they aren't obnoxious, and they'd support the site - if he's got a problem with the site making money, use it for litigation, donate it to pro-gun orgs, or buy ammo for blasting...

100 banner ads at $25 each per month is $2,500/month.

[Langenator]

I know I saw a cover from a Dillon catalog in their, and others have said that VPC used images from Armalite and Olympic Arms websites in the slidshow.

I'm not a lawyer, but are their legal differences between commercial images and ones that are "informational" like Oleg's?

Would one of those companies have a better case than Oleg?

[Orthonym]

Oleg is of the ilk of Ike and Hymie. (Asimov and Rickover, respectively)
Aarr! C'mon Oleg! Go get'em! No more Mr. Nice Guy!

[Caliburn]

The VPS "solution" says
To accomplish the goal of ridding our streets of assault weapons, the new law must ban all--not just some--semiautomatic assault rifles, pistols, and shotguns.
You've all been assuming that statement breaks down to mean banning:
- all semiautomatic assault rifles
- all semiautomatic pistols
- all semiautomatic shotguns

But we know the words games these people play (what the meaning of "is" is). They want people to think that they want to ban semiautomatic assault guns, and some people will probably think that banning such evil assault things sounds like "reasonable" gun control. Heck, "assault" is by definition a crime.

What if that's not what they really want? They can later say they told us exactly what they were proposing. Read the "solution" again. It could very easily be interpreted to mean banning all (not just some!):
- all semiautomatic assault rifles (which they define as they please)
- ALL pistols
- ALL shotguns

"Semiautomatic" and "assault" could just refer to the rifles. Why not ban all handguns? They're made to be concealed! Why not all shotguns? They blow people in half in the movies!

What's left unbanned? Bolt and lever rifles. Now we can hunt deer so the Second Ammendment is preserved. Hooray! Until of course they ban evil long-range "sniper weapons".

And that's assuming they don't invent some new category of "assault pistol".

Oleg and Henry Bowman -- good luck, and I'll contribute to the defense fund. But carefully read every word they say.

[Mark Tyson]

Caliburn, it's no secret that VPC wants to ban all handguns. Tom Diaz has a book devoted to the subject. They say Diaz himself has a handgun - go figure. And when "Assault weapons" go the way of the dodo "sniper" rifles won't be far behind, because there isn't a damn bit of difference between a "sniper" rifle and a hunting rifle. If I'm not mistaken, the first US miltary sniper rifles were drawn from the ranks of hunting and sporting civilian rifles.

Then they'll get the "military style" shotguns - in other words, the useful ones.

[alan]

Mark Tyson, et al:


In point of fact, the ultimate goals, VERY OFTEN STATED, of the anti gunners are, have been and remain, The Total Proscription Of Firearms. They have, after all, been touting this goal for years.

It never was a "secret", which leaves me rather curious as to how come such a simple truth seems to have escaped the attention of so many, people whose vested interests, one would think, would cause them to fight the achievment of the stated goals of the antis. Interestingly, or sadly, it seems that the obviously needed efforts are, with respect to so many gun owners, just to damned much to expect. The picture strikes me as sad, how does it strike others?

[Warren]

el-bumpo-o

[aikidoka-mks]

I hope something can be done to put that organization in its place. Looks like the legal battle is dicey at best unfortunately :-( Which says a lot about the condition of our legal system. Seems that true and false, right and wrong dont matter but rather who is more creative in the argument regardless of the truth or logic of it.

Mark

[357to44]

Now we have a precedent with The Economist on hand. Those folks admitted they used Oleg’s image unfairly and compensated him for that. I believe this case could be argued similarly but suggest bringing it, rather, to Small Court in DC.

VPC have used Oleg’s picture in its entirety for more than 13 months, 24x7. Even setting defamation of character aside, they’d rather pay at least as much as The Economist did. There are many similarities in the way the pics have been used.

Would somebody be willing to have a one-time court appearance as an image co-owner? I am sure Oleg will assign a partial ownership to the volunteer(including a share in what would be recovered). He would probably do it himself if not such a distance.

On publicity side, a victory should be a blow to VPC reputation as well – could be e-mailed to all the sponsors listed on their side. (I think though that they will settle out of court).

Due to the nature of Small Court where parties can represent themselves, I don't think there is a danger of being ordered to pay VPC's legal expenses.

[tyme]

That's different. The economist is sold for money; that VPC flash thingy is not.

[Warren]

That's different. The economist is sold for money; that VPC flash thingy is not.

They are using it to raise funds, I see no real difference there.

[Oleg Volk]

I think the effort would be worth making. The only issue would be the difficulty of finding pro-RKBA people in DC.

[Stickjockey]

Try contacting the NRA?

[DragonRider]

I can try to ask one of the parents of the kids that I teach who works at the NRA if you like, but I think it would be better comming from you. If nothing else, they can point you in the right direction of who to contact.

John

[twoblink]

All this suing... Goodness people..

Haven't you ever heard of a UCC-1 lien?? :evil:

Why bother suing them when you can just lien them for everything they've got. They know what a lawyer looks like but probably will laugh at a lien placed on them, until it's binding.

Why try suing for half the farm, and you can own the whole farm? :D

[Harry Tuttle]

i know a few DC gunnies

maybe we could expand this into a class action investigation

The VPC used advertising images from Browning in a report about children and guns

[Flyboy]

Chalk it up to the fact that I'm not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I was under the impression that Oleg could file suit in VPC's jurisdiction, or his own.

File it in TN small claims. Make them come to you.

(I also don't know about the assignment of ownership idea; I would imagine that the new owner would only have standing to sue over actions occurring subsequent to his taking ownership. Again, I'm not a lawyer, though I'm thinking about shark school.)

[Flyboy]

Incidentally, I just had a look at the web site the movie is on. Looks like some web "programmer" somewhere got clever with the absolute value function; it's now "58 days until" the expiration of the AWB. Way to go, Slick....