[NIGHTWATCH]

Am I a dangerous man? Am I tired of living? Do I have a deathwish? (thats a popular coin for some here). Or, am I so ON TARGET that most people just cant handle it. Cant deal.

WHY is it that as the sunset of the AWB approaches, we dont hear gun rights orgs screaming from the rooftops and every mountain to every gun owner in this country. That if this ban does not sunset, that the government has turned criminal? That "crime" is being used as an argument to disarm, persecute and kill Americans? Why are we on the defensive? Why isnt someone telling gun owners in this country that if the AWB survives, that every gun owner should not only not comply, but grab his/her gun and begin the second American revolution? 80+million gun owners, grabbing their arms, walking out of their homes, all at the same time? We have the power. If the AWB survives, than my friends, WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR NOW?

When I think of the sacrifice of those who fought in the revolution (the remains of the maryland 400, a militia that saved Washingtons ??? in the 1776 battle of brooklyn , are only minutes away from me). When I think of the civil war and the price of freedom. Than why is it that I am often made to feel that there is something wrong with me when I suggest raising hell in response to the legislative tyranny that will lead to the bloodshed of my countrymen?

My question here is:
Am I the only one here who realizes that if the AWB survives, that this will be seen as the last opportunity of armed revolution in America? Am I alone in seeing this? Is there anyone here who agrees with me? Or should I turn on my TV and "veg-out"? :rolleyes:

[Devonai]

I voted no.

Give me an old, beat up Enfield or Mauser with a pitted bore, and in due time I will give you a nice shiny new M16A2.

[Moparmike]

Last true opprotunity? No. Last good one? Yes.

[Bostonterrier97]

I voted no.

Give me an old, beat up Enfield or Mauser with a pitted bore, and in due time I will give you a nice shiny new M16A2.


Cool...once you do get your new M16A2..you can keep it..give me the Enfield.

[Lone_Gunman]

I vote no also.

High capacity magazines, pistol grip stocks, and bayonet lugs don't make you any more or less able to defend yourself from enemies foreign or domestic. They certainly aren't worth throwing everything away and causing the next Dark Age.

Banning them is stupid, and done for "feel good" reasons, but in no way limits my ability to resist if the need should arrive.

[LiquidTension]

Lone_Gunman: "Banning them is stupid...but in no way limits my ability to resist if the need should arrive."

Don't you see? Limiting your ability to resist is EXACTLY why these laws are passed. You may already be stocked up, but others are not. By the time others realize that they NEED to stock up, the items they need will already be gone. That's the point.

If someone started the revolution, I'd sure as hell jump in. But just like everyone else, I'm not willing to fire the first shot.

[illuminatus99]

so if now isn't a good time, when is it a good time? when we're down to only being able to legally own black powder rifles? after all we could still fight a war with those, not as effectively as we could otherwise but we still could.

[pax]

I'd say this one belongs in Legal & Political, since we're talking about laws and politics.

pax

[NIGHTWATCH]

If we sleep. If we turn the other cheek. We will lose the ability to resist.


The government is corrupt. ALL OF IT. It fears the people, especially with assault weapons. The revolt should have come when the ban was passed, now they want to renew it? Extend it? And no RKBA activist except "Rick Stanley" is saying a word about how if the AWB is renewed, that we should not comply but gather our numbers and prepare to fight.

Maybe the terrorists were right. Americans are now afraid to die? If this be true, surrender your arms now. Keep your homes. Your car. And "think about the kids". Avoid to the last moment with all cowardice the inevitable. :banghead:

I have no love for cowards.

[ballistic gelatin]

If someone started the revolution, I'd sure as hell jump in. But just like everyone else, I'm not willing to fire the first shot.I'm right there with ya'. If this ain't the reason to do something, what is??? Religious persecution? Higher Taxes? Checkpoints at the State Line? Computer Chips in your forehead?

[hillbilly]

I don't remember who said it, but I read somewhere the following.

The way to tell if it is time for revolution is to run out into your yard with your gun and look at your neighbor's houses.

If your neighbors have also run out into their yards with their guns, then yes, it is time.

If you are the only person outside with a gun, then probably not yet.

The fact is this.....Even WITH the AWB in place, I have collected a large supply of normal capacity magazines and several semi-auto rifles.

Again, that's WITH the ban in place.....I owned no rifles before the ban, and now I own many, with a whole ton of regular capacity magazines (as opposed to diminished capacity).

So, uh....if the ban remains in place, what exactly will change?

The ban will not be strengthened.....No way.

In fact, my brain and my logic tells me that the ban won't even come up for a vote and is destined to sunset.

But mere renewal of the ban would not be, in my opinion, cause for the next revolution to start.

Now, strengthening the ban????????? Now that's different from mere renewal.

But again, I really don't think that the ban will still exist, in any form, one year from today.

hillbilly

[hillbilly]

One more for Nighwatch.

I see you are from NYC.

NYC has had a total and complete "assault weaons" ban for a long time now, longer than the 1994 ban. NYC has all sorts of very strict laws, usually more strict than anywhere els in the US except for Commifornia......

So, uh, if you hate cowards so much, and want action now, why haven't we heard about the great uprising in NYC against the draconian laws there?

Seems like NYC, with all its awful gun laws, would be great place to kick off the revolution.


hillbilly

[NIGHTWATCH]

You are correct sir. It is. :evil:

If I ever find myself handcuffed for some BS gun control law, if I am ever made into a criminal by their abuse and disarmed, I will fire the first shot. Believe it. :fire:

I would show this city, this nation just how much a myth gun control is.

[CZ52GUY]

...I would caution you against considering passage of AWBAN renewal as some sort of "triggering" event to grab your firearms and begin to engage..........who???????

Our founding fathers pursued every peaceful means of putting forth their grievances.

They knew who the adversary was.

They had some minimal level of organization to provide backing to the fledgling rebellion when it occurred.

I'm not sure AWBAN "renewal" provides a clear picture of who the "engageable" adversary is?

The fight over AWBAN is clearly a call to political action.

The Ballistic Fingerprinting debate frankly concerns me more.

The right to carry has now been achieved in more than 30 states.

Advocates of the 2nd Amendment's provisions for lawful self-defense have materially influenced the last 5 federal elections.


AWBAN renewal...certainly a gross betrayal by a supposedly "pro-gun" president were he to sign it...and of a majority political party that claims support for the 2nd as one of their planks...But a literal call to arms...I'm not so quick to draw the line in the sand at that point.


I know that if and when they pass confiscation legislation, that I'll be ready to join with others in fulfilling the F-M-C-D-H pledge.

Where that line in the sand is between AWBAN and confiscation...I'm not sure I can tell you?

I can say, that:
1) I'm not sure you are dangerous
2) I'm not sure that you are not ;)
3) I agree that there may come a time when we revisit the path of our founding fathers...and like some, I have taken lawful means to prepare for that eventuality God Forbit It!!
4) I don't agree that AWBAN necessarily represents that moment in time.

Best wishes,

CZ52'

[hillbilly]

Nightwatch, you wrote:

"If I ever find myself handcuffed for some BS gun control law, if I am ever
made into a criminal by their abuse and disarmed, I will fire the first shot. Believe it"


In that case, I think you may have made the point yourself.

Apparently, you have NOT found yourself handcuffed or made into a criminal or disarmed, even under the more stringent gun laws of NYC.

If that is the case, that you have NOT found yourself handcuffed, not made into a criminal or not disarmed, then why exactly would renewal of a law which has not handcuffed you, not made you into a criminal or not disarmed you be a signal to start a bloody revolution?

I'm not trying to pick a fight.

I am just trying to figure out what you are so steamed at.....

Are you angry at not being handuffed, not made a criminal or not disarmed?

I think the AWB is stupid beyond belief.

I also think that the AWB is doomed to sunset and go away.....The votes simply are not there to renew it, much less make it stronger.

hillbilly

[cuchulainn]

Nightwatch, this rant is not a personal attack directed at you.


There will be no revolt over rights. Period. Deal with it.

The sooner everyone realizes that the mythical "third box" has become nothing but adolescent, laughable fantasy and inane mental masterbation of the same ineffectual caliber as MMMer sheeple singing kumbaya around a campfire, the better off the RKBA will be.

Why? The first act of violent rebellion will be painted quickly and effectively (and perhaps correctly) as terrorism, and no one will be willing to even voice sympathy, much less help.

We can't get even half of gun owners to vote RKBA. Can we expect them to run off to the woods(*) to fight for intangible "rights" and miss the new menu items at Taco Bell and next round of American Idol? Spare me.

Get off your duffs and double or triple your efforts to keep if from getting that far because once it gets there, that's it. We will have lost.

The terrifying thing is that the self-styled revolutionaries ignore Jefferson’s warning in the Declaration of Independence about "experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

If their adolescent revolution fantasies ever came to fruition, the almost-certain outcome would be to speed the very tyranny they fear.

I can count on one hand the few revolutions out of thousands through the history of mankind that were both successful and left the people better off -- we'd be very unlikely to be the next.

(*) Yeah, great strategy: running off to the woods. Way to separate yourself from the people, making it easier to attack and demonize you. Oooh, look at me, I'm The Ghost in my swampland hideout. Better watch out Lord Cornwallis!

[ballistic gelatin]

the almost-certain outcome would be to speed the very tyranny they feartherein lies the glitch.

[Lone_Gunman]

Ok, I am going to ask a question, but before I do, please bear with me here...

First, I think assault weapons, hi cap mags, bayonet lugs, pistol grips, etc, should be legal. To make a semi auto AR 15 illegal while allowing a bolt action 223 is just stupid and we all know that.

So please, dont get me wrong when I ask my question. I have already written many letters to Congressmen stating that I wont vote for them if we renew the stupid AWB.

My question though is, that in the event of a revolution why do you think you will need an assault weapon or high capacity mags?

Think about this before you answer.

Why would you want to fight a revolution with a semi auto version of a military weapon?

During your first confrontation, one of two things will happen. Either you will kill a soldier with a real assault weapon, take the weapon, and then be really well armed; or you will get killed and not need any kind of weapon.

Certainly you dont plan on continuing to fight with a semi auto when better equipment is available.


The reason to keep assault weapons legal is not to be able to better resist the government...

The reason to keep them legal is because it aint the government's business what I own as long as I dont hurt somebody.

[atek3]

Great thread, keep it up. I lie somewhere between nightwatch and cuchu. Right now, I think 'adolescent fantasies' are completely without hope, but...I think our government will not stop at the present level of oppression in this country. Like any good tyrant it will push the people and 'eat from their sustenance' until a majority of the people won't be content to watch american idol and eat taco bell. And at that point, the 'crazy gun nuts' will be the tip of the proverbial spear.

atek3

[hillbilly]

And with the first American Revolution there wasn't any ONE thing that set it off......there was no one single spark.

The revolution grew and grew in scope until, one day, it was delcared officially with the signing of the Delcaration of Independence.

Declaration, the "official" kickoff of the revolution was in 1776,

However, the Boston Massacre happened in 1770, six years earlier......That's six years after redcoats shot down protestors in the streets until the Declaration of Independence.

The marches on Lexington and Concord and the "shot heard round the world?" Those happened in April of 1775.......or more than a year before the signing of the Declaration of Independence, but five years after the Boston Massacre.

Not even the open armed conflict of of April 1775 "officially" started the revolution. The revolution was not official and open and declared until 15 months later.

Read Paine's "Common Sense" sometime.

Not only had there been blood spilled in the Boston Masscre 6 years in the past, and the open combat with redcoats a year earlier, Boston was under a naval blockade.......and Paine was STILL trying to convince colonists that revolution should be joined soon.

No, if a revolution needs to happen again, there won't be any question about it being time.

If you need to stop yourself and ask, "Hey, is it Revolution Time, really?" then it's not time yet.

hillbilly

[2dogs]

The revolution started in 1939- U.S. vs Miller- our side has yet to fire it's first shot.:uhoh:

[CZ52GUY]

adolescent, laughable fantasy and inane mental masterbation

I think there are certainly those that enjoy having a beer or two and thumping on their chests as a way to let off some steam...I'm guessing some of that is occurring within this thread.

At the same time, there are those who do not want to see revolution, do everything they can to pre-empt the need for it, who have committed themselves to a position that there are things worth fighting for. There are intolerable injustices that they will not allow to stand while they draw breath.

An adolescent does not have the years of maturity to understand the gravity that an act of defiance might involve, or the accountability to loved ones and frankly, fellow citizens that an armed act of defiance at some organized level would require.

Our founding fathers pledged their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor to eachother.

There are fair weather advocates for the 2nd...there are indeed some disturbed individuals that in a post adolescent but failing to pass puberty way would welcome armed conflict for its own sake. There are still others, perhaps like me, who are seriously committed to the pledge "from my cold dead hands".

God forbid that it ever comes to it, but I will not obey an unlawful order to confiscate that which the Constitution guarantees. If the 2nd does not exist in any form, which confiscation would be the final blow, NONE OF IT means anything...the blood of millions over the past 200+ years will have been shed in vain.

Having that serious conviction does not make you adolescent, I'd say it makes you a committed patriot.

I would regrettably find it necessary to join with similar serious minded individuals if the time comes...I will do everything in my power to ensure that it never does.

Best wishes,

CZ52'

[NIGHTWATCH]

Someone asked why am I so steamed? Im sorry if I come off a little "hot" sometimes. I feel that living in this city, with this city council, that I am being held hostage. And I cant leave.

I really feel that my life is under threat sometimes. At some point, if their power is not kept in check, the time will either come to give up my guns, or say no more. To say NO, and draw the line and give my life to a belief that I have spoken so strongly of but must act on.

When I say that "I have no love for cowards", I am wrestling with the voice of cowardice in my own mind and heart. And coming to grips with the truth. That I am either going to be prepared to give my life, my life to this cause one day, or surrender.

The way I see it, I cant live with the latter. Give me liberty.... Id rather be dead than to be a slave.

[CZ52GUY]

Hey Guy,

I admire your passion.

We each have to choose when to stand and fight...and when a strategic retreat is in order.

I implore you not to go to that dark place where hope does not accompany you.

I've been there. I don't wish it on anyone.

You have options.

You can fight in many ways.

You can show your defiance by changing things that you can change, or removing yourself from the chains that bind you.

Don't give in. Don't give up. Don't let the anti's turn you into something you'll regret.

Hope never really deserts you.

When you ignore the presence of hope, the perception that it has deserted you is the greater danger.

Hang in there,

CZ52'

[Rebel Gunman HK]

Im with ya Nightwatch. Every little ban and gun control law that is passed just sets gives strength for the next one until one day we won't be allowed to have any guns. I think that some of you guys are being selfish. Yea most of you guys alreay have nice weapons and hi capacity mags, so you are not to worried about when its ever "go time". But what about the next generation? How are they going to be able to get the stuff that you have to protect yourself? They aren't going to be able to because its no longer allowed to be made. Don't be dumb. What are you gonna tell those that come to asking for help someday? Sorry, but you should have got when the getting was good? The country has become so diversified we can't agree on anything anymore! It makes me sick! :barf: Proud to be an American? Whats that? Who?

[CZ52GUY]

Yea most of you guys alreay have nice weapons and hi capacity mags, so you are not to worried about when its ever "go time". But what about the next generation?

The best way to fight this phase of the battle is at the ballot box www.awbansunset.com . I have a "next generation" I'm waging that battle for right now. The right tool, for the right job...

They aren't going to be able to because its no longer allowed to be made. Don't be dumb. What are you gonna tell those that come to asking for help someday?

If there is a need...which I believe is preventable if the passion I'm hearing can be applied constructively...my door is one that you'll be glad you came to...assuming that you come under the right pretense. God pity you if you come to my door "asking for help" under the guise of coercing me to provide it.

You have passion? You want to fight? You want to make a difference? Then don't be dumb, write a respectful but firm letter to your Congressman. www.awbansunset.com has some examples. You can copy and paste them if needs be. Don't be so anxious to shed blood when it is not yet necessary.

I'm not giving up on this fight. If you are serious about protecting the 2nd, you won't either.


Sorry, but you should have got when the getting was good?

The best defense is a good offense...let's defeat the bogus AWBAN! I absolutely do not concede that it is a lost cause. I refuse to give in to the "all-powerful" Schumers, Feinsteins and their hollywood clowns that support them. We can beat them on their own turf, in the political arena...unless we're too wimpy because they're just too tough for us...


The country has become so diversified we can't agree on anything anymore! It makes me sick! Proud to be an American? Whats that? Who?

Our diversity can make us strong if we are united around the common ground of freedom. Support for the 2nd need not have a litmus test based on race, gender, or country of origin. Support for the 2nd makes sense for all Americans, because the 2nd guarantees the rest. Seeking to drive a wedge within our ranks with that kind of nonsense only empowers the enemy.

You want to fight? You want to make a difference? Then don't be stupid. Understand the nature of the fight, apply the appropriate tactics, AND WIN!!!

Proud to be American, that means defending the Constitution and supporting those who make it possible for us to retain our rights.

You want to fight? You want to make a difference? Don't be so quick to advocate an approach that would force THR brother against THR brother. We have many among us that are LEO or Military. The vast majority I'd wager, oppose the Ban. Are we going to turn righteous indication and constructive passion for defense of the 2nd into engaging our board brothers in battle because we're feeling our oats...got the testosterone levels to unmanagable levels, I Don't Think So!!!

Proud American, that's me, CZ52GUY.

That's millions of us nationwide that love the flag, love the Constitution, and are aware of what the 2nd means to keeping the meaning of the flag, and keeping the Constitution relevant.

You want to fight? You want to make a difference?

Turn your passion into something that will win the fight, not play into the hands of our enemies.

CZ52'

Upon careful reflection, I vote No

[Mark Tyson]

Let's be reasonable. The first assault weapons ban was what pushed Mr. Mcveigh, the butcher of Oklahoma city, over the edge. His act of indiscriminate terror resulted in over a hundred deaths, including a bunch of kids, while it did nothing to advance the cause of freedom and blackened the names of innocent gun owners everywhere. It also provided impetus for the government's little remembered first anti-terrorism bill in 1996.

On the other hand, the congressional elections of 1994, 2000 and 2002, and the presidential election of 2000 were all heavily influenced by the gun lobby. In the minds of politicians, these elections loom a lot larger than the OKC atrocity. More violence in the wake of a new ban will only encourage those in power to crack down harder. After 9-11 they are not taking any chances. Those in congress who still supoprt RKBA will be hard pressed to oppose further infringements.

At this stage, when the democratic process is still functioning, violence is both counterproductive and immoral.

[Rebel Gunman HK]

First of all I dont want to fight, I dont want to kill anyone. I dont want to put brothers against one another. I was in the army. I dont want to kill soldiers. They are just drones. I dont however believe that diversity makes anything strong. Look at most of our discussions here . WE cannot even agree half the time. And we are supposed to be on the same side. All I am saying is the government takes stuff in steps, not all at once. We cannot afford to let them keep restricting us. I just feel like its a lost cause cause there is no powerful leadership. Ill stop talking now cause it does no good. All I want is my freedom.

[CZ52GUY]

Soldiers are people, in today's US military, volunteers who bravely do what others cannot, or will not.

They feel, they think, they love, they hate, they hurt, and they bleed. I've known many, call some brother, others dad...

Diversity can make us strong if we let it. We are not "the borg". We need not become "assimulated into a continuim" of approved thought. We can bring our different talents to bear in order to win this fight. Artificial diversity can be a problem, but that's a whole different topic.

Don't give up, don't give in, Chuck's a wimp, we're going to kick his lefty-gun-grabbing-elitest-gun-a-phobe NY behind on this one.

Leadership need not come from above. Leadership can come from the ranks. Leadership can come from you and other THR brothers and sisters.

Quit yer whining and get into this fight, we need you!!:D

You want your freedom, then join us and fight for it!!! But fight for it the right way www.awbansunset.com.



CZ52'

[JeepDriver]

Why? The first act of violent rebellion will be painted quickly and effectively (and perhaps correctly) as terrorism, and no one will be willing to even voice sympathy, much less help.

That's the scarry truth. Any attack against the goverment will be labeled as a terrorist act. They are already laying the foundation for arresting those that are speaking out against the goverment.



I've never known a time with out hte AW Ban. I'm fairly new to buying guns. I'm only 29 and I've only seriously been interested in guns for the last 3 years. I've had a Marlin 22 bolt action since I was 11 and have had in interest in guns, I've only been able to afford and pursue those interest recently. Since then I've been on a steep learning and buying curve, I've spent over $11,000 in the past 3 years on guns, mags and ammo. (Sometime's Quicken is to good of a program)

I'm also thinking that the advent of the internet my aid in that. In 1994 the internet was in it's early stages, now we have high speed connections and the ability to communicate with a much larger group of people, but the opposition has the same advantage. The one true ray of hope I see is that in 1994 the Ban was only passed by a small margin with White House backing.

Today we may have the upper hand, we have a White House that just wants the ban to go away and never reach the Presidents desk, they know it's political suicide no matter what they do. Without the support of the White House and having a Congress and Senate worried about the economy and the 'War on Terror' we have a very good chance.

If they (President Bush) signs it, we cost them the next election (which in my opinion would be cutting off our nose to spite our face) If we boycot Bush in 2004 who else has a chance? We would be handing the White House to the Democrats.

If the White house doesn't sign it they are screwed just as bad. Maybe even more since the media will make it the lead story for a week. It's a story the sheeple would eat up, with out realizing they were being mis informed and minipulated.

I'm in no way as educated and knowledgable as some of the membership here, but that's how I see it. And I have learned a lot from the membership here. This is the best RKBA fire arms board on the net.

That being said,I'll continue writing my elected reps, and the leaders of the house and senate, as well as the President.

I'll also be buying as many standard cap mags and politically incorrect rifles as I can over the next year, better safe then sorry.

[Moparmike]

I too will join the fight if one is started. It takes a serious matter for me to become active enough to the point of violence for a cause.

It also seems like a good time to see how my Mauser does on paper as I havent shot it yet....

[BHPshooter]

Very interesting thread. :)

While I do believe that if the tides aren't turned sometime soon, we will have to fight or bend over and take it. The big problem I have is that I'm not really sure when that time is. I can only hope to God that I'll know, if and when that time comes.

As I've seen somewhere: "Do you really expect to fight the hard war when you won't fight the soft war?" Fight the war through the proper channels first -- write your reps regularly. It may be tedious, but it has nothing on sleeping in the mud.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that it is important to utilize your right to protest. We seriously need to band together as Second Amendment Brothers and Sisters, and we need to do it now. That way, if this ridiculous law passes, we need to ALL get together, strap on your pistols, sling your rifle/shotgun over your shoulder, and march on the capital (state OR national). Don't take no for an answer.

Then, after all of these methods fail, we need to collectively put our feet down and say "Not while I'm still breathing." Then you can cue the shooting.

Very interesting thread. ;)

----------------------

* Interesting thought: I would hope that all of us would be doing this in defense of other rights, if they were in jeopardy -- For instance, if the gov't shut down the free press/media, or denied the right to speak your mind, I would hope that we'd all be there to defend those rights as well.

Cheers,
Wes

[Cactus]

Originally posted by NIGHTWATCH:
Someone asked why am I so steamed? Im sorry if I come off a little "hot" sometimes. I feel that living in this city, with this city council, that I am being held hostage. And I cant leave.

And why can't you leave NYC? Your all ready to go out and kill your fellow Americans in a revolution but your unable to move to another state! :banghead:

[Moparmike]

And why can't you leave NYC? Your all ready to go out and kill your fellow Americans in a revolution but your unable to move to another state! :banghead:Ahh, the eternal struggle between what your survival instincts tell you and what logically would be "giving up." Its a beautiful thing...;)

[Taisho]

The people as a whole are too soft and too comfortable to ever revolt.

Some states are already total losses, I was born and raised in a gun friendly state, so I have been blessed.
Those of you that are in a draconian state, you have my sympathy.

[NIGHTWATCH]

Cactus, if I were on the move to possibly lay down my life in a local revolt, food ,water and shelter I would believe, be provided or gathered as I/we go along. That I could manage. To relocate without a job or any contacts right now during a time of peace, well, what em I to do? Move out to your neck of the woods and hope you take me in? :rolleyes: Could you by the way, Id really appreciate it. :D

CZ52GUY: Your positive outlook is encouraging. Thanks man. ;)

I just read this in a july "American Rifleman" copy that was given to me. A quote in the Washington Post by Charles Krauthammer- April 5, 1996

"It might be 50 years before the United States gets to where Britain is today. Passing a law like the AWB is a symbolic- purely symbolic move in that direction. Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation".

[jimpeel]

assault rifles aren't the only kid on the block.

http://www.doubleought.com/articles/1pistol.html

WHAT GOOD CAN A HANDGUN DO AGAINST AN ARMY.....

[NIGHTWATCH]

Jimpeel, I love you man. :) Godbless you for posting that link.

[Molon Labe]

This talk of "revolution" humors me. I’ve seen it countess times on firearms & patriot boards.

The reason is because so few people have taken a minute to contemplate what it would really entail.

The "plan" always appears to be nothing more than this: "When the gooberment infringes on your freedom, grab a rifle and start shooting!"

Sorry, but that's a recipe for disaster. With such a shortsighted "plan" you will only succeed in getting yourself detained or killed. And a you can't fight for liberty while sitting in a prison cell or lying in a casket.

One of our problems is that we act like no one else in the history of mankind has ever been in the same predicament as us. This is simply wrong, as history is rife with examples of other peoples in similar situations. So if you're serious about planning a revolution, it is best to first heed the advice of history.

And when you do finally open the history books, what do you find? That any successful "revolution" must be a protracted affair of organized resistance. It will not be won with "good 'ol boys running around on their own with rifles." It will be won using a strategy of organized guerilla warfare. This is the only method that should be used when confronted with an overwhelming force wielding superior firepower.

I'm not going to go into all the aspect of guerilla warfare; there are already many excellent books written on the subject. But I will pass along this warning: if a large percentage of the general population is not on our side then it won’t work. (There is a bit of a paradox here, since we vote-in the gooberment. So why should we ever expect a large percentage of the population to be against the gooberment if they voted for it in the first place?) Anyway, my point is that if you’re serious about preparing for that "rainy decade," you should start by opening the history books and learning about the theoretical and technical aspects of guerilla warfare.

[NIGHTWATCH]

Is there at least one book on the basics that you can suggest?

[only1asterisk]

Molon Labe,

Who is to say that some "good 'ol boys" may not lack the ability to organize and conduct guerilla warfare? I know a few that can. Don't sell rednecks short.


David

[CaesarI]

(There is a bit of a paradox here, since we vote-in the gooberment. So why should we ever expect a large percentage of the population to be against the gooberment if they voted for it in the first place?)

See: Venezuela and their recent presidential problems...

**************
Re: Armed Revolt

1. If we want to make the AW-Ban our causus belli (cause for war) then we shouldn't start shooting people left and right.

2. The American Revolution worked.

3. As noted the American revolution took a LOT of time. A combination of men like Thomas Paine, and men like Samuel Adams.

4. Sam Adams was out organizing militias, and generally stirring up crap :-) . First step in a good revolution is having a militia. Train with them. Build one out of your like-minded geographically close friends. Standardize w/in your militia as much as possible (minimum: rifle ammunition). Further, you should have ready arms that are not in use for new-comers recruited by people like Paine.

5. Thomas Paine wrote, but that's not enough, he wrote well, but that's not enough, people copied his work and spread it to other people. What took MONTHS to spread in 1775, can be spread in weeks via e-mail... unless they start intercepting it.... the 1st amendment protects the 2nd too.

6. Returning to #1, if this is our causus belli then we should begin by organizing those who are already motivated (the militias) and by convincing those not yet motivated that they should get motivated.

7. As a side note, anyone know the odds on portions of the US military siding with the revolutionaries? A Navy submarine captain could quite easily pick his own side.

I've given this whole matter a good deal of thought for a few years now. I'm working on most parts, but at present, my finances are largely devoted to improving my earning potential (i.e. college).

At the same time, I *am* starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. The 1986 FOPA while prohibiting machine-guns did a lot to gut the 1968 GCA. Shall issue concealed carry is spreading like wildfire, and we have a case coming to the supreme court. IF the AW-Ban sunsets in '04 I think it could be the start of a trend. Ben Stein has indicated that he feels Hollywood is no longer run by as many "card carrying" Communists as it was when he first got in the business. To quote Ommadon from The Flight of Dragons "Can't you feel the world turning in my direction?"

-Morgan

[Molon Labe]

Originally posted by only1asterisk
Molon Labe,

Who is to say that some "good 'ol boys" may not lack the ability to organize and conduct guerilla warfare? I know a few that can. Don't sell rednecks short.
Huh? Where did I imply they did not have the ability? Quite the opposite: I'm counting on them to organize and conduct guerilla warfare.

And for the record, I am a good 'ol boy / redneck...

[hillbilly]

Don't stew in anger and hopelessness.

You think a bunch of guys just decided to "get together" and go face the redcoats at North Bridge?

No way. They had been an organized force for years before the redcoats ever showed up.

Instead of stewing in anger, go buy more ammo.

Instead of stewing in anger, introduce a non-shooter to shooting.

Instead of stewing in anger, go work on your rifle marksmanship.a

Instead of stewing in anger, start browsing Internet boards like Monster.com for a job that can get you the Hell out of NYC to a place where you can own all the rifles you want and buy ammo by the pallet and nobody will care.......Hell, not only will they not care where I live, they wil probably ask if they can come over and play with the new toys.....


Instead of stewing in anger, learn how to read a topo map and use a compass. Start buying topo maps of where you live, and at lest 200 miles in rdius from where you live.

Instead of stewing in anger, make friends in your area who already have guns and ammo, and go shooting at the range with them.

Don't stew.........act.....................It's not time to "shoot the bastards yet" as Claire Wolfe says, but you can act in ways that will get you ready for when that time comes.

hillbilly

[Molon Labe]

CaesarI and hillbilly:

You’re both 100% correct.

How many of us here are guilty of being “keyboard patriots?”

If you want to change your situation, then get off your arses and do something.

Tomorrow is Saturday. What will you be doing? Can I make a suggestion? Instead of sitting in front of the TV or banging away at the keyboard, why not go to a woods and practice the art of stealthness? Or grab your rifle and practice high and low crawling in your front yard? Or go to the range and practice shooting from prone and sitting? (And bring a buddy while you’re at it!) Or go to a woods and practice cover and concealment tactics?

Wanna know what’s happening at Molon’s place tomorrow? The first Saturday of every month is “militia day” around here. This means a handful of like-minded patriots will come over for training. Tomorrow we’ll practice fieldcraft, communication, and marksmanship skills.

What activities do you participate in? When’s the last time you’ve been to the shooting range? Have you ever gotten together with your buddies and practiced hand signals and tactical maneuvers?

Please do not misconstrue this post; I’m not trying to brag or intimidate. But we have natural a tendency to expect someone else to “do something.”

[dshimm]

I'm only guessing, but I suspect that one of the reasons for the deafening silence from the pre-2A side is that absent a sea-change in opinion, most feel that the AWB reauthorization doesn't stand a chance in Congress. The reasoning being that if things appear to be going our way, why make a racket and possible attract unwelcome attention.

I suspect that things will heat up as the sunset date nears.

[NIGHTWATCH]

79% NO v.s. 21% YES to the question as of this post.


CACTUS: RE: KILLING AMERICANS

Do you not consider "American's" fighting and killing to undermine our liberties the domestic enemy? Im not talking about civilians, Im talking about government.

Just curious.

[CZ52GUY]

While much is broken in the US, much still remains intact.

The government still serves at the pleasure of a civilian populace who make dismiss them from their position at any time.

Even career civil servants are subject to potential dismissal based on funding being withdrawn from the gravy train that keeps them employed. (when the last time that happened...I can't recall).

Bottom line, WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT.

The "government" is not some abstract entity with its own agenda.

There are those within government that definitely fit the description of "domestic enemy", but the government itself is still up for grabs...I'm unwilling to concede its control to "the wolves".

BTW, I don't see myself as a sheep...I see the role of the patriot as the farmer with his gun chasing off the wolves...but I digress.

We cannot simply allocate a convenient label to a demographic that is not uniform or exclusive...e.g., LEO's that are also NRA & THR.

Government officials who are also NRA and/or Pro-2ND, who may even be THR.

The greatest issues I have with this AWBAN renewal as "trigger" to armed conflict, is a lack of an identifiable enemy to engage, and a lack of a defined outcome...what is the goal?

Can we seriously suggest that indiscriminate killings (or even targeted ones) would not be perceived (and perhaps rightly so) as criminal acts of domestic terrorism?

What logical positive outcome would you advocate from AWBAN renewal acting as that "line in the sand"?

F-M-C-D-H is a pledge I will honor...but I don't see AWBAN renewal as the catalyst for me to proactively fulfill that pledge.

Right now, I'm parked at somewhere in front of Confiscation...I just can't pin down the specific coordinates yet.

Bottom line, I'm fighting hard to kill the bogus ban...my state is green across the board at www.awbansunset.com. I mean to work to hard to keep it that way...

Best wishes,

CZ52'

[cuchulainn]

grab your rifle and practice high and low crawling in your front yardUh, right.

Is that before or after I play cowboys and indians in the street?

[keederdag]

I just recomend, that if you want to practice high/low in your front yard; use a toy rifle, and ask your son to join you. That way you don't have to explain to john Q law that your just training fer the revolution. If your out there by youself, with THE TOY, at least your neighbors will only think your a lunatic, not a dangerous lunatic.:)

[keederdag]

On another note, you know, you can practice allmost everything you may ever need to know on a simple hunting trip. We do it all the time out here; but I'll have to be excused for not thinking about revolution tactics while I'm at it, as it would spoil the fun for me.:D