Ok...Kimber jam problem


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deacon8
February 12, 2009, 04:33 PM
Ok, here is the deal. I have a Kimber Custom Target II. I bought it NIB about 4 years ago. I have roughly 500-600 rounds though it. Have the factory magazine and two Chip McCormick's. I use factory 230gr. FMJ's, and various handloads. These range from 230 gr GoldDots to 200 gr. jacked SWC's. It is very well taken care of. Those are the specs, here is the problem...

It jams a lot! I am constantly cleaning and lubing it. Gave Kimber the benefit of the doubt and went over the 500 rounds, so I finally called them. The customer service lady told me to mail it, wait, etc. The problem is, I don't really want to wait a couple of months. I would rather try to figure it out myself and either fix it myself, or take it to a gunsmith (which are hard very rare around my area). So, fellow THR members, feel free to give opinions, detail, etc. Please no Kimber bashing...

Details of the jam:

1) Happens about every two mags (roughly 10-15 rounds).
2) Empty case does not fully eject. Usually, the slide does not fully open,
and the empty case is still in there, maybe 3/4 exposed. Sometimes it is
almost like an "angled" stove-pipe.
3) Very consistent type of jam and never a failure to load.

Sorry, but there is no way I am going to be able to post pictures. Thanks for all your advice...P.S-- I realize that there are topics like this all over THR. However, the many that I have gone through do not match my exact problem. So that is the story behind that, if any of you are inclined to point out that this is a common issue.

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Ridgerunner665
February 12, 2009, 04:39 PM
If its the extractor it will be easy enough to fix yourself...If it the ejector, its still not that hard to fix but its more complicated than extractor tuning/replacing.

It could be either one....

psp7304
February 12, 2009, 04:42 PM
Does your Kimber have an internal extractor or external extractor?

schmeky
February 12, 2009, 04:55 PM
2) Empty case does not fully eject. Usually, the slide does not fully open,
and the empty case is still in there, maybe 3/4 exposed. Sometimes it is
almost like an "angled" stove-pipe.

I would replace the recoil spring 1st, maybe drop to a 14# spring and see if the "angled stove-pipe" improves.

Change one thing at a time so you'll know what fixed it. With input, you'll find the problem.

It will be fixed.

deacon8
February 12, 2009, 05:02 PM
psp7304,

It DOES have an external extractor.

rbernie
February 12, 2009, 05:12 PM
Sounds like an extractor issue.

It DOES have an external extractor.Dang. Does the face of it look chipped?

Field strip the pistol and try to slide a 45ACP case from the bottom of the slide up the breechface under the extractor. Does the extractor hold the brass there, or does it fall out?

deacon8
February 12, 2009, 05:49 PM
rbernie,

I did what you suggested to try...The round DOES stay in place. However, I can "wiggle" it. What are your thoughts on that?

-Deacon

deacon8
February 12, 2009, 06:17 PM
So, could this be a spring problem? What do you guys think?

deacon8
February 12, 2009, 07:13 PM
I am not really "up" on what could be going on with the extractor (if anything). I wouldn't mind a few more suggestions and/or information on the matter. Thanks.

Runningman
February 12, 2009, 07:34 PM
Usually, the slide does not fully open,If this is what is happing it sounds like your recoil spring rating is to stiff for the loads you are using. I learned long ago if you are going to shoot 1911s you need a good selection of recoil springs. I would get a selection of Wolff springs. the recoil spring need to match the loads you are shooting.

CountGlockula
February 12, 2009, 07:37 PM
Stop using semi-wad cutters.

schmeky
February 12, 2009, 09:22 PM
Since the extractor is holding, it sounds as though there is insufficient slide momentum for the fired case to impact the ejector.

Try this. For safteys sake, remove the firing pin. Chamber a single fresh round. Manually pull the slide rearward sharply and see if the round is ejected fully.

deacon8
February 12, 2009, 10:04 PM
schmeky,

Yeah, the round ejected just fine. I am starting to think that it is a recoil spring issue. Maybe I should start there and see if that helps. If that isn't the case, it is the extractor??:confused:

Kruzr
February 12, 2009, 10:31 PM
Kimber had lots of issues with their external extractors. The problems you descibe were seen on many guns. They discontinued them and replaced the slides on those guns that were having issues with internal extractor slides. They will still do that.

I wouldn't hesitate to call Kimber and send the gun back. You will get a new slide and won't have a proprietary part in the gun. It will be well worth it.

When you call, just tell them the problem you are having. Don't ask for a slide replacement....let them do it.

schmeky
February 12, 2009, 10:32 PM
One thing at time.

I'm not the expert, just an enthusiast that wants to see than Kimber up, and doing what I know it can do. There's lots of external extractor Kimbers that run well.

Runningman
February 12, 2009, 11:16 PM
I still think it is a recoil spring problem if it is short stroking. If how ever that does not solve the problem. Plan B would be change out the extractor spring to a stronger one. Wolff makes a 25% (stronger than Kimbers spring) external extractor spring. You may want to order this when you are ordering the recoil springs.

"Kimber 1911 .45 Pistols with External Extractors
Kimber produced many .45 caliber 1911 pistols with external extractors. The factory spring was often too weak to provide reliable extraction. We now offer an extra power extractor spring which is approximatelty 25% stronger than the original factory design. This spring will emiminate most extraction problems in these pistols. Note: Not for .22 caliber models.


Stock No. 33261 - each.....$3.49
Stock No. 33262 - pak of 3.......$ 7.49
Stock No. 33263 - pak of 10.....$ 15.99 "

http://www.gunsprings.com/SemiAuto/Kimber.html#Extractor

Ken Rainey
February 13, 2009, 12:17 AM
Yep, do what Kruzr said and let Kimber replace it with a new slide with the internal extractor....a properly tuned extractor, proper magazines and good ammo will keep an in spec 1911 running just fine - from the get go! ;)

Kruzr
February 13, 2009, 01:19 AM
One thing at time.

I'm not the expert, just an enthusiast that wants to see than Kimber up, and doing what I know it can do. There's lots of external extractor Kimbers that run well.
Yes there are and many that just wouldn't work. We had a range rental with the external that worked just fine for over 80K rounds. I've also seen quite a few that had issues. Some were solved with cleaning the extractor spring channel and spring but some just wouldn't work consistently.

Kimber went through 4 designs of external extractors before they gave up. It's a proprietary part that Kimber no longer makes. If you want to mess with it then go ahead but if it ever breaks, you will end up with a new slide anyway. Get it now. Send the gun back and let Kimber turn it into a "normal" 1911. :)

SwampWolf
February 13, 2009, 01:31 AM
Well, at least nobody has blamed your problem on limpwristing (yet, anyhow :uhoh:)! I know it's a hassle but I agree with Kruzr: send it back to Kimber and let them sort it out.

deacon8
February 13, 2009, 01:33 AM
So, if I DO send this gun to Kimber...they will change out the slide with a new one, with an internal extractor? Are you sure about this?

Do they charge for this? Do I have to tell or ask them anything specific in my letter (other than the problem it is having)?

Kruzr
February 13, 2009, 03:22 AM
So, if I DO send this gun to Kimber...they will change out the slide with a new one, with an internal extractor? Are you sure about this?

Do they charge for this? Do I have to tell or ask them anything specific in my letter (other than the problem it is having)?
That's what they have been doing for a few years now. They won't charge but you will pay shipping back to them. They pay back to you. Sometimes, they pay shipping but it's rare.

Just tell them your gun is having issues feeding and extracting. You can let them know it's an external extractor but don't tell them how to fix it. Just describe the problem. It's best if you call them rather than just write a letter and send it. You can call either the Custom Shop or the Customer Service number. (Most have better luck with the Custom Shop.)

glockman19
February 13, 2009, 10:37 AM
There has been much conversation on this issue.

check out:

http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=21

MJZZZ
February 13, 2009, 11:19 AM
I have an Ultra CDP that I had problems with upto and after the 500 round break in. One trip to Yonkers and I haven't had one problem since. It is now a trusted carry gun, but I have developed a CZ addiction and it now sees little action. Unless you just like to tinker, send it back and let them fix or replace the slide. Mike

NGIB
February 13, 2009, 12:24 PM
Just note that the comment on having a selection of recoil spring weights is absolutely valid. I have a box full of different springs for my "family" and each of them like something a bit different depending on the ammo being used.

This is really critical if you load your own so you can tune your gun to your ammo...

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