"Saving Private Ryan"...(MG-42 scene, realistic?)


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RDCL
February 12, 2009, 08:36 PM
I'm just curious. I watched my DVD yesterday and I'm sure you all recall the scene where just after Capt. Miller & his men Blitz and capture a German radar site......and you see a close-up of the MG-42 smoking & cooling off....and as the gun cools off you can hear the metal clinking as it contracts, very much like a fixture on a stove after boiling water.......so I'm wondering, do real MG-42's make such noise as they cool-off....or is the movie mistaken?

The reason I wonder is because IF the gun got hot enough for the metal to expand THAT much the barrel would be glowing and would the gun not malfunction or even come apart?

....Or maybe I missed something in the movie and in fact the gun WAS jammed after all. I do recall one of men (Capt. Miller?) saying something before the attack referring to the MG like: ".....before they have time to change out the barrel"

A freind of mine says the scene is BS. I remain neutral.....I've never seen an MG-42 in operation.


Russ

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RavenVT100
February 12, 2009, 08:40 PM
It is possible to slag an MG barrel. I am not sure if in the scene they fired enough to do that, but it's not unheard of for stuff like that to happen. Whether it happened with the MG42 I could not say...I've never seen one in real life.

Avenger
February 12, 2009, 08:43 PM
Car exhausts certainly clink and pop as they cool, and I would think the temperatures of exhaust piping and a barrel shroud after prolonged firing would be fairly similar.

Duke of Doubt
February 12, 2009, 08:45 PM
Guns do tick and smoke as they cool. I've shot AK and AR patterns to that point.

MG42 barrels, and all air-cooled LMG barrels, overheat. That's why they are all equipped for quick barrel changes.

That barrel should not have overheated from the handful of (longish) bursts it fired, but it did NOT overheat -- it just got hot. The Americans rushed it a little fast, and Wade blundered into one of the bursts, as often happens.

The radar was the wrong array for that area and time, BTW.

Eric F
February 12, 2009, 09:18 PM
I would suspect the smoking was more of a oil burn than any thing else. The gun was out doors and its not unreasonable to think the crew applied some sort of rust proofing/ water resistant oil based lubricant. The barrel shroud would have been thinner metal allowing for faster heating and cooling. Sounds realistic to me.

Grizfire
February 12, 2009, 09:18 PM
I'm guessing it has a lot to do with outside temp. and humidity as well. I have never heard a barrel make a noise from cooling so I would not expect it to happen to the MG42 either. That is purely a guess though

James T Thomas
February 12, 2009, 09:21 PM
I've seen the old M-60 barrels glo a dull red at night, and had to be exchanged using the asbestos mitten. The M-60 fired them at 660 rpm.

That MG-42 would fire at approximately 1000 rpm! I think?

Anybody?

akodo
February 12, 2009, 09:23 PM
heck our old barn that we convered with tin sheeting would crinkle and ting as it heated up in the bright summer sun.

RDCL
February 12, 2009, 09:31 PM
Thanks everyone for your opinions.
I think I should have mentioned....my friend, has never heard an MG-42 fired in real life himself either, but the dude is firm in his "BS" opinion. A good freind , but kind of an armchair know-it-all if you know what I mean!:D

I'll just remain open minded about it. One thing I think the movie DID get right is that allied soldiers in reality truley feared the MG-42....based on books I've read. Kinda ironic because if I were an Axis soldier I think I'd more more fearful of "Ma-Duce" (.50 cal. M2):evil:

I don't think the Germans ever had a .50 cal. MG did they?


Russ

CWL
February 12, 2009, 10:06 PM
Steven Spielberg demanded absolute authenticity with sounds for the movie. He went out of the way to send recording crews to capture real German tank and halftrack noises as well as the sounds made from the weapons used by both sides.

If you heard it in the movie, it was recorded from the 'real deal'.

hank327
February 12, 2009, 10:47 PM
I've not fired an actual MG-42 but i have fired an MG-3 while training with the Bundeswehr back in the early 1980's. The MG-3 is an MG-42 chambered in 7.62 X 51mm NATO. It fires much faster than any US Army machine gun, it makes a ripping sound. I can see why it was nicknamed "Hitler's Zipper" back in WWII because it rather sounded like a gigantic zipper being ripped open when it fired. I have no doubt that a hot MG-42 would make popping noises as it cooled. I doubt the noise would be coming from the barrel, but rather the stamped steel barrel shroud that surrounds the barrel on all but the right side.

sharkhunter2018
February 12, 2009, 10:54 PM
I'd imagine the crinkling and smoke would be normal.

The one thing that didn't seem normal to me is the rate of fire of the MG-42s, particularly during the beach landing scene. It sounded much slower than it really should have been.

Anyone else notice that?

sturmgewehr667
February 12, 2009, 11:11 PM
approximately 1000 rpm

1,200 - 1,500 :eek::D

Pulse
February 12, 2009, 11:16 PM
I'll just remain open minded about it. One thing I think the movie DID get right is that allied soldiers in reality truley feared the MG-42....based on books I've read. Kinda ironic because if I were an Axis soldie
r I think I'd more more fearful of "Ma-Duce" (.50 cal. M2)

the M2 is to heavy to be carried by Man and needs a motorised platform to move and fire because of the recoil.
ammo also was very heavy.

the MG42 is manportable and could even be fired without a bipod or tripod, not very accurate, but it was possible.
heck, the germans even made drum mags for it to easyer be able to give a single soldier a MG42 and all the ammo he needs during battle.

what made it to the fearfull weapon that it was (and still is in the MG3 form) was the insane firerate of up to 1500rounds/minute or 25 rounds per second.
consider that the German 7.92x57mm was more powerfull then the .30-06 and should be clear why it was one of the most feared invantry weapons in the second worldwar.

I don't think the Germans ever had a .50 cal. MG did they?

no, they did not use .50cal.
in the few cases where the firepower of the Mg42 was not enough, they packed the KwK38, a 20x138mm autocannon mounted on many of there "jeeps".
even the ~15k joules of the hotest .50BMG gets dwarfed against the ~47k joules impact energie of 20mm.. and that was before the HE charge detonated.

sturmgewehr667
February 12, 2009, 11:17 PM
after long periods of sustained fire, the rear of the barrel shroud will heat up and make popping noises if it comes in contact with some sort of moisture. but, in the scene, they don't fire enough to cause that, actually, they don't even fire enough to need a barrel change

nekwah
February 12, 2009, 11:26 PM
Sounds realistic to me. But the sniper in that movie, he was leading running people by 10 feet. Would you really have to lead a person?

Thingster
February 12, 2009, 11:28 PM
Yes, you have to lead any moving target. How much depends on speed and distance.

Funderb
February 12, 2009, 11:39 PM
they almost never fired at 1500rpm due to the huge vibrations that ruined accuracy. Or so the grapevine says.

But apparently they stuck around 1200.... but still, wholy crap.


i imagine they DID make that noise, have you ever heard an aircooled engine cool? now put that into a little metal cage that resonates....

Exposure
February 13, 2009, 12:29 AM
Having had the chance to play with a couple of original MG42's I can tell you that the barrel would only smoke like that if it was doused in oil.

As far as the noise of it cooling off I don't really know. I always have ear protection on during the machine gun shoots I go to!

But the smoke is pure Hollywood.

Eightball
February 13, 2009, 01:32 AM
I'm not sure I'd like to be on the business end of a rapidly-firing MG42 close enough to be able to tell if it's clinking or not.

Duke of Doubt
February 13, 2009, 01:44 AM
nekwah: "Sounds realistic to me. But the sniper in that movie, he was leading running people by 10 feet. Would you really have to lead a person?"

Not by that much.

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