Are Kahrs fragile ??


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flinch
February 13, 2009, 07:14 PM
Howdy,

I got a E9 and a T9 and I keep seeing these stories about how "they aint the gun they use to be". Are they delicate little things or can I go to war with a Kahr on the hip?

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Anyname
February 13, 2009, 07:26 PM
I have a P9 and there is nothing fragile about it. The only drawback I see to the Kahr is that the spare magazine tends to dribble rounds into your pocket. It would be distressing to go for that spare mag and find it half empty.

usp9
February 13, 2009, 07:37 PM
IMHO, your E9 and T9 should last a lifetime. The steel framed Kahrs have an excellent reputation not quite matched by the polymer framed guns. The T9 is one of my favorite range guns...what a sweety. ;) Kahr puts powerful rounds in small, lightweight guns and they wear accordingly. The quality is there.

jocko
February 13, 2009, 08:04 PM
My PM9 is a total POS. I only have as of today 18,700 flawless rounds through it. Had one cracked mag follower in all of the above.

FRAGILE MY ASS!!!!

jocko
February 13, 2009, 08:06 PM
ANYNAME. Only way I carry a spare kahr mag is in a uncle mikes magazine pouch with velcro cover. other wise, your picking rounds out of ur pocket.

Not really a draw back for me. Can't see carrying a spare magazine without a case for it either. but your right those rounds will exist with little resistance.

The Lone Haranguer
February 13, 2009, 08:45 PM
I too have had rounds work out of the magazine of my PM9 when carrying it loose in my pocket. I always keep the mag in a pouch now.

There is nothing fragile about the all-steel models whatsoever. On polymer models there have been reports of the plastic frame rail crumbling or breaking off. However, this is not a load-bearing area - the slide actually runs on steel rail inserts.

I would not take a Kahr to war, in the literal sense of the word - they were never designed for actual battlefield conditions. For civilian CCW, which they were designed for and where you can protect them from the weather and have the luxury of time to maintain them, they are just fine.

jigglyjames29
February 13, 2009, 08:47 PM
I think you have a much higher probability of getting a lemon from Kahr compared to other companies (if you go polymer). I've read many reports of abnormal wear on the rails and other issues that arise after a 200rd break-in.
This pisses me off because a P9 or T9 would be PERFECT for me. I'm just not willing to take that gamble.

groundhog34
February 13, 2009, 08:57 PM
I have a Kahr PM-9 with about 700+ rounds no problems no evident wear. So I would say no the are not fragile, however there seems to be a fair about of lemons although mine is not one I trust it.

possum
February 13, 2009, 10:13 PM
i don't think they are the best choice to have on your hip if you are going to "war", howvere they do make outstanding ccw guns, i love mine, there is nothing fragile about it. no issues to date and i have had it for years, and my dad years before that. i have a k-40

jocko
February 14, 2009, 09:17 AM
ur all welcome to look over my PM9 with 18.700 rounds through it. not one bit of wear on any polymer frame rails (which the slide does not run on anyhow) and barrel looks new, I have replaced one follower and recoil springs, and just recently put in a new 5# striker spirng. It has 18,000 rounds on it and I got a couple of lite strikes only on cci alumnum and when I tested the striker spring it was down to 4.5 pounds, so I felt I should change it. Installed a new 5# spring and proceeded to shoot 150 rounds of cci aluminum with not one issue. I would call all of the above normal maintenance, except the cracked follower, which never stoped the gun from functioning. Probably if one left the factory 7# striker spring in, they would never have to replace it either. I really like the 5# spring and I guess one change in 18,000 rounds is acceptable.

I try to base my opinion on acutal experience, not from reading "reports" on the gun sites. Some may be true, some may be false, many leave out details that might explain more to.

There are a hell of alot more people carrying kahrs today than 2 years ago...

Wish my $900 Para would have even come half as close to being as good as my 2 kahrs have been.

FiveFiveSixFan
February 14, 2009, 10:57 AM
I have a K9 and a T40 and have not found either to be delicate in any way. I like the ergonomics, the heft provided by the steel frame keeps recoil very minimal given the size and they have been totally reliable.

Takedown of the K9 took a little getting used to, but not as much as the Ruger MK l. I plan to keep them both for a long time.

jocko
February 14, 2009, 11:35 AM
I sure like my used K9, has about 4000 rounds through it. just goes bang every time, very accurate after I put a set of MMC adjustable sites on it

I bet that T40 is awesome..

M&PVolk
February 14, 2009, 12:13 PM
I will never own another Kahr. I had a CW40 that was a complete POS. It jammed every 5th round, far past the 200 round break in. Additionally, the slide would lock back past the slide lock! It would crumple brass, etc.

Beyond the functionality issues, the steel parts of the Kahr were machined decently, if not great, and looked like they would last a long time. The plastic grip, however, was a very hard plastic molding with little flex. The lack of flex made recoil much harsher and put undue stress on the polymer. My FFL said he had seen some polymer cracking. I imagine that to be a strong possibility based on my experience. Also, I did have a mag follower break, but that might be because of the defective feed magazine.

The biggest problem to me was Kahr's terrible customer service. They told me that my problems were ammo based, yet I only put quality ammo through the gun and tried all the major brands with no success.

I will NEVER own another Kahr.

possum
February 14, 2009, 12:51 PM
will never own another Kahr. I had a CW40 that was a complete POS.
there polymer lines i am not a fan of and the only issues i have ever heard of with the kahr line is the cw line which is an econmical model, i will keep my kahr for sure, and i will stay away from that model. and advise others to do the same. Just because ruger has had a recall on the lcp and the sr9, that shouldn't keep folks from buying a p345, p95 etc.

OleCodger
February 14, 2009, 01:19 PM
It ain't necessairly "accurate" when you hit the four sides of a barn and you're standing inside the barn...........:evil:

jocko
February 14, 2009, 04:22 PM
possum: all the internals of a cw are exactly the same as the k, T and P models.

they left out the polygonal rifled bbl, more engravng on the slide, no dovetails sites, spare magazine. None of these lessen the functioning quality of the cw line. Actually the cw line is by far kahrs best selling gun do to price but not lacking in quality, IMO..

jocko
February 14, 2009, 04:24 PM
I sure didn't know the polymer grips on these semi's was supposed to FLEX.

I best send my glock and Smith back !!!

saltydog452
February 14, 2009, 05:17 PM
I don't know about the shorter Kahrs, but I bet the farm and contents on MY K and P 9.

I carry a BHP or Commander though.

salty

HankB
February 14, 2009, 05:58 PM
I had a P9 that I'm sure it would take a long, LONG time to wear out . . . simply because that wretched POS spent more time going back and forth to the factory for service than it did in my hands.

Wolfebyte
February 14, 2009, 06:09 PM
+1 to Jocko


Thanks! .. I love my CW model and have had not one issue with it in 2 years and a little over 3k rounds through it. (I don't get to shoot as often as I'd like)...

I found extra mags on ebay, I carry the CW daily, either IWB or in a Galco pancake. When I'm on the bike, it's in a vest carry or shoulder rig..

M&PVolk
February 15, 2009, 04:24 PM
jocko said: I sure didn't know the polymer grips on these semi's was supposed to FLEX.

I best send my glock and Smith back !!!

Polymer framed/gripped handguns are all given to a certain amount of "flex" during recoil. The flex will vary in intensity based on the particular compounds of the polymer and design of the frame. The flex in all forms is extremely light, however, it is there, and can have a legitimate impact on how recoil is transfered through the frame and grips.

jocko
February 15, 2009, 04:39 PM
extremely light, indeed, hell steel flexs also. grip design (shape , size etc) would have far mor eto do with recoil than any flexing. IMO.

M&PVolk
February 16, 2009, 02:06 AM
Actually, the flex of poly is often cited as a primary reason for the reduced recoil feel of polymer based handguns. See the new Ruger LCR as an example of how much a decrease in recoil can be attributed to polymer grip frames.

jocko
February 16, 2009, 05:27 AM
HUMM: learn something new every day!!

Justice5
February 16, 2009, 05:44 AM
I had an MK 40 for a few years and loved it. I eventually traded it in for the PM 40, obviously the polymer version. I did this because I thought it would be lighter and still basically the same gun. I regretted doing this and have since rid myself of this thing. Even after the 200 round breakin, I had problems with the slide not fully closing, about ever 4 rounds or so. I also had a bad magazine. Sent it back to Kahr. They told me it shot fine from a bench, but the still replaced the recoil spring, and polished the feed ramp. They gave me a new mag as well. Never had a problem with the rails though. It shot better after they did this, but I still had the occasional slide not closing again. So very accurate though, for such a small gun. Loved shooting it aside from the problems. I heard the PM9 never had this problem, but I needed a 40 cal. I would definitely go with a non-polymer version and I think it will serve you well. I hate to deter anyone from buying a specific gun, but the PM40 does NOT appear to be a quality handgun in my opinion.

verdun59
February 16, 2009, 09:03 PM
I had a K9 with no problems, unfortunately I traded for a Glock 26 looking for the perfect "pocket gun" which it was not, Anyway I now have a PM9, one of the early ones and it has never failed, with the exception of the day that a .380 got loaded into the mag by owner error. By the way it fed the cartridge it just would not ignite it. I've read a lot of comments about Kahrs but I've never experienced anything but excellent working pistols without all the crap one reads about.

mmartin101808
February 16, 2009, 11:12 PM
I don't own any Kahr's, but I've fired a p9, and kicked around the idea of buying a p45. I really enjoyed shooting the p9, and I thought it was pretty controllable for it's size. I know a couple local pd guys that carry p9's for off duty or back-up, and they love em. The only thing I don't like about the p45 is the grip marks on the backstrap. They tend to dig into my hand while holding it. I'm almost afraid to fire one for fear of cutting up my hand.

OleCodger
February 16, 2009, 11:17 PM
I have the CW45 and love the gun but have the same problem with the grip. I posted another thread about the discomfort and had several suggestions of which I haven't had time to act on........sanding the "bumps" down was one, slip on Hogue grip another. As long as I have a glove, it's OK although I have some arthritis in my hands and always dread the big .45 BANG.

orionengnr
February 16, 2009, 11:28 PM
I have owned and carried a PM9 for three years (summer) and a P45 (winter) for about two.

Both are absolutely trustworthy with any ammo I can fit into the mags.

In the interest of full disclosure, my PM9 was in th barrel-peening S/N range, and made a trip back to the factory. It was fixed fast, right, and free.

bannockburn
February 16, 2009, 11:41 PM
I owned a CW40 very briefly a couple of years ago. Past the 200 round break-in period, the slide was still very difficult to rack, would not close completely into battery, and finally, large chunks of polymer were getting lodged inside the frame and slide, causing the slide to lock back after every shot. Thus making it a rather expensive single shot pistol. Not exactly the application that I had in mind when I bought the pistol. So I would say fragile in the sense that the polymer material they're using in their pistols is not as durable as what other manufacturers are using.

mmartin101808
February 17, 2009, 01:15 AM
olecodger, so is the discomfort worth it? I've been looking at one of these for a while for pocket carry. I know it's not something you'll go to the range and fire 100 or so rounds at a time with, but if it's not fun to shoot I know I won't carry it.

OleCodger
February 17, 2009, 07:27 AM
In my opinion, yes, it is worth it. It's a very concealable weapon and very, very dependable, also very competively priced. Wintertime I carry it in a Mitch Rosen, summertime a Crossbreed. The beaded grip problem is the only fault I can find and is very easily fixed. Five minutes doing a little sandpapering would take care of the problem. Also one of the Hogue slip on grips would be a quick fix. For some reason, Kahr became a little overly agressive in making the grip "slip proof". Also it's like another fellow poster said........"If you get into a defensive gunfight, you won't notice the discomfort of the grip!".

Is the CW9 or CW45 adaptable for pocket carry? Not for me......it's too much gun and I'd hafta ask the culprit to wait a minute while I try to get my pistol out of my pocket (regardless of the holster)!!!! And either one would print.

Would I do it all over again?............Yes....... mine isn't for sale or trade!....:D

jocko
February 17, 2009, 09:08 AM
verdun59. Kinda makes u wonder to about all the "crap" we read about kahrs. My two have been flawless, best guns I ever carried ...

bannockburn
February 17, 2009, 09:42 AM
verdun59
jocko

I can assure you what I experienced with my CW40 was not imagined or fabricated. Large pieces of the polymer frame were coming apart and getting stuck in between the slide and the frame. I have several other polymer handguns, including a first generation Glock, that have never had any problems whatsoever with the integrity and durability of their polymer components. And the truly unfortunate part about this is that when I purchased my Kahr, I thought I had finally found the perfect CCW that I had been looking for all these years. Lightweight, compact, great feel and ergonomics, and in a credible caliber. Obviously, I would have greatly preferred the results to be just the opposite of what I ended up with. So to write that any such negative reports that you have read about polymer framed Kahrs are spurious and misleading, is to take a very narrow minded approach to the question of fragility, which is what this thread is all about.

flinch
February 17, 2009, 08:22 PM
It sounds like the steel frame Kahrs work and not so much the polymer frames. I think I would be interested in a steel frame .45 acp like the T-9 if one was available but am leary of the poly .45 acp .

Raoul
February 17, 2009, 08:43 PM
Everybody makes a bad gun. My PM40 however, isn't one of the bad ones. Great gun. Fires every time and is amazingly accurate for a ccw.

verdun59
February 17, 2009, 09:22 PM
Bannockburn, my comments were not directed at you and I am sure that you have had an unpleasant experience with your Kahr as anyone can with any gun. You expressed your problems in a reasonable manner. My concerns are the people that say all Kahrs are POS and junk etc. Those folks are just short sighted and I sometimes wonder if they have even owned a Kahr or just passing on internet "facts". I'm sorry that you got a bad one, and just as a personal observation I believe that .40 have been hard on any num ber of different brands even Kbooming some Glocks. Not a round that I like.

bannockburn
February 17, 2009, 11:31 PM
verdun59

I agree that far too many people tend to paint with a very broad brush when it comes to making sweeping generalizations about certain manufacturers, either good or bad. Some of it may be based on actual experience, but certainly a lot of it might also be Internet hearsay. But the OP asked about fragility and I thought my experience, while not typical, was worth sharing. I also believe that in such a small package as the Kahr, that possibly the .40S&W might be a little too rough on the polymer that Kahr uses. Perhaps Kahr needs to reconfigure their polymer formula to compensate for the increased wear and tear created by this cartridge. I guess time will tell if that's the case, or if my particular gun was just an anomaly.

Ala Dan
February 18, 2009, 01:41 AM
I have a less expensive Kahr CW-9, and even tho' it has a pinned front
sight; I find it too be of quality workmanship, NEVER having any issues. :cool:

Thot
February 19, 2009, 04:54 PM
I've had an early E9, early P9, MK9 and now a P9Covert. The MK9 did have some FTE issues (rather nastily jammed up actually) w/ several factory range ammo types. This was well after the break-in period and has been the only problem I've had w/ any of the Kahrs (not counting the slight rust under the grips of the E9, this is the NW).

After experiencing the same problem w/ an early Glock 26, I more or less gave up on pistols w/ captured recoil spings (my Glock 30 being the exception).

My P9Covert is my current and lasting carry piece. It has just over a 1k rounds through it ranging from light to heavy, standard to +P, no problems.

Otherwise, in my humble opinion and experience, Kahrs (especially the polymer versions) are the gun Glock should have invented (albeit w/ better feeling triggers).

jocko
February 19, 2009, 07:19 PM
bannockburn: I did not mention ur name. One complaint or issue seems to get posted and repeated far more than one good report. and I do stand by that statement.

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