(UK) Woman shot dead by robbers in raid on jewellers' shop


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Mark Tyson
October 2, 2003, 11:08 AM
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=448685

Woman shot dead by robbers in raid on jewellers' shop

By Danielle Demetriou

01 October 2003

Britain's spreading gun crime epidemic claimed another victim when a woman shop owner was shot dead in front of her husband and daughter.

Marian Bates was killed after two armed robbers stormed the jewellery shop she owned with her family in Arnold, Nottinghamshire. Mrs Bates, who was in her sixties, died from gunshot wounds in the chest shortly after arriving at hospital yesterday morning. Her husband Victor and daughter Xanthe were treated for head injuries.

Assistant Chief Constable Peter Ditchett said: "I want information from the public about every gun and anyone connected with guns in our community to come forward. We want to put these people away, get people like this out of our lives. I am sick of it, sick to the teeth."

Residents in Arnold described their shock as they paid tribute to a woman well known in the community, and friends described how the shop had been targeted twice by attackers in the past.

Police issued an urgent appeal for information about the murder, which was carried out by two men who arrived and fled the scene on a motorbike later abandoned nearby.

The first attacker was described as white, of medium build, 5ft 4in, in his late teens or early twenties, and wearing a helmet with luminous yellow streaks. The second was described as 6ft, a scrawny build, a similar age, with a dark motorcycle jacket and carrying a crowbar.

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Carlos Cabeza
October 2, 2003, 12:04 PM
I thought guns were outlawed in the U.K. Where'd the robber get the gun ?

OH YEAH, WHEN GUNS ARE OUTLAWED, ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE GUNS ! !:fire: :banghead:

Chipperman
October 2, 2003, 12:11 PM
"I want information from the public about every gun and anyone connected with guns in our community to come forward"

Gee, it couldn't possibly be people from OUTSIDE of their community coming in.

Mute
October 2, 2003, 12:12 PM
"I want information from the public about every gun and anyone connected with guns in our community to come forward. We want to put these people away, get people like this out of our lives. I am sick of it, sick to the teeth."

Great police work. That will surely help to find the killers. :rolleyes:

Mr. Bombastic
October 2, 2003, 12:22 PM
Another 'amnesty' will DEFINATELY work (not suggesting they have one planned, but one will likely come along).

Matthew_Q
October 2, 2003, 01:29 PM
Hmm... Isn't 'society' supposed to protect British citizens, err... SUBJECTS?

and Carlos, you got it right. Only outlaws have guns over there ( and a few coppers with the guts to carry a weapon)

They never learn.

RobW
October 2, 2003, 02:01 PM
Bravo! The British "politicians" and other criminal supporters managed to make sheep out of their law abiding subjects, forced to wait for their butchers, not allowing ANY self-defense.

What you see is a former strong nation in rapid decline. Criminals have already taken over the country.

Can you see the future of the United States of America?

Nightfall
October 2, 2003, 03:06 PM
Assistant Chief Constable Peter Ditchett said: "I want information from the public about every gun and anyone connected with guns in our community to come forward. We want to put these people away, get people like this out of our lives. I am sick of it, sick to the teeth."
Because it would have been better for her to have been beaten to death with the crowbar than shot? Because only guns are capable of being used to murder people? Because removing the tools of defense is the best way to... uh... wait, aren't you trying to fight crime? Or just guns? :rolleyes:

45crittergitter
October 3, 2003, 10:11 AM
http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0309/23/m01.html

Travis McGee
October 3, 2003, 05:33 PM
Well thank God that at least the robbers were not hurt! Imagine if this woman had defended herself with a gun, there could have been an even greater tragedy! This way, only one "subject" was deleted from the census.

http://matthewbracken.web.aplus.net/snakelogo.jpg

dance varmint
October 3, 2003, 05:58 PM
I'm sick to the teeth about British cowards villifying guns and gun owners.

When you couple this with the "turn in all rifle owners to local authorities" response to the DC snipers, it really solidifies one's understanding of where we're headed if we continue to tolerate registration, and the logical progression it leads to.

Reasonable gun control, my eye.

keederdag
October 3, 2003, 06:17 PM
Anyone know what kind of firearm was used? I hear they have quite an issue with Eastern Eoupean gun's making their way into merry o'l England.:)

sturmruger
October 3, 2003, 11:34 PM
One of my favorite things to read about is the crooks that try rob jewelry stores here in the US. At least half the time they end up shot to pieces. For some reason I like hearing about crooks getting shot. Maybe I am a little sick in the head, or maybe I am sick of here about Sheeple that end up being victims like in the UK.

sm
October 3, 2003, 11:55 PM
I'm angered at the loss of life and injury to others, denied the right to defend themselves. I'm angered at the attitude of Politicians and Constable. Banishment,prohibition,confistation and such attitudes do nothing but deny peoples the right to protect and gives the criminals a free range. Angers and baffles me UK cannot comprehend this. arrgh !

Baba Louie
October 4, 2003, 07:59 AM
re1973,

Repeat after me... Its for the children. What? That doesn't make you feel all better inside? She gave her life... for the children, man. And the politicians. The children AND the politicians. Any civilized man should know that.

And won't someone please help the ???'t Chief Constable by turning in any and everyone in the "gun community"? He's quite sick to the teeth of it, I gather.

What is in the water over there, that these subjects of the Crown cannot figure it out? Is it that we're just waaaaaay too "Un-civilized" playing cowboy and believe that a life is worth defending?

As Travis McGee pointed out, its a good thing that the little old lady wasn't armed. She might have hurt someone and thus committed a crime.

Pity.

One would think that with all of the CCTV cameras around, the Constables would have a snapshot or two to work with to aid them in finding Mutt and Jeff.

Ban crowbars and tyre irons... coming to an island near you soon. Maybe Britian can ban jewelry shops next.

Adios

greyhound
October 4, 2003, 08:49 AM
anyone connected with guns in our community

Do they even HAVE any normal, law abiding citizens "connected with guns" anymore?

I'm not being flip; last I heard they were trying to get rid of skeet shooting and target shooting clubs....

feedthehogs
October 4, 2003, 09:58 AM
When citizens(subjects) allow the governing body to take away these natural rights of self preservation, they get exactly what they deserve.

I have no sympathy for any of them. Period.

Mr. Bombastic
October 4, 2003, 11:26 AM
That's right feedthehogs, because we all had a choice in the matter!

Mark Tyson
October 4, 2003, 04:21 PM
I read another article on this same incident. Seems the female victim actually put herself in front of her daughter and died for her bravery.

keederdag
October 4, 2003, 05:04 PM
Fedhogs:I think the English have proved time and time again to be a very courageous people; They have had a long history of suffering under an opressive, caste system of government. Do NOT blame the common Englishman for the mistakes of the government they suffer under.They are also; at the end of the day, our most steadfast allies. We stand by them, they stand by us. This is factual, not opinion. If you think the things they put up with cannot happen here, you are badly mistaken. If you wish to beat up on a people for having a government with self serving anti self protection policy's, why not insult the residents of Washington D.C. or the City of New York.

Zundfolge
October 4, 2003, 05:23 PM
Well thank God that at least the robbers were not hurt! Imagine if this woman had defended herself with a gun, there could have been an even greater tragedy! This way, only one "subject" was deleted from the census.

Yes and its much better to delete subjects who are not criminals because their existance doesn't justify anyone in law enforcement's job. If criminals started getting killed then there would be less need for more police.

As someone once said "follow the money" (or in this case, follow the money and power).

Gun control is great for causing more problem then its worth to justify the growth of the police state. Georg Hegel is laughing at the Britts from beyond the grave.

BluesBear
October 5, 2003, 01:42 AM
Amen keederdag!

sm
October 5, 2003, 02:20 AM
I can't repeat "Its for the children". If the story is true about the lady using herself to protect her daughter, that is even more tragic. Look at this "child" now without a mother, because the governing body denies the right to defend oneself.

I'm angered, I've met and visited with various persons from the UK over the years, heck back when I drank, I drank room temp beer with them. Business persons, cops , the bookstore owners, students...all VERY upset with the path the gov't was going. The 'bobbies' admitted the camera's were just a control deal " a real terroist is not gonna be caught by a tape, its an excuse to spend money to give a 'sense' of security...the monies should go for other measures...instead we do see the boss and secretary having an affair on tape...yeah, that keeps us safe".

I'm very familar with the inner workings of a jewelry shop, a very portable means of wealth is available to BG's. Some are dumb crooks, some are pros with the intent of not having witnesses. " I would have killed you had you arrived 3 min. earlier". Face the guy that robs you with a jail cell separating you, whom finaly was caught when he did shoot 2 people and was caught only because he was shot in return fire. Yeah, I was angered, but I did my job to see him put away for good. I did strap on my CCW as soon as I left that hellhole too. The same one I had on when I arrived 3 min late that night, so many years ago.

How many must die to appease the politicians?

Zundfolge
October 5, 2003, 02:55 AM
If you want to feel a little better, go pick up the May/June 2003 issue of American Handgunner and read the Ayoob Files ... its about the attempted robbery of a jewelry store in Richmond, VA ... Owner had 11 5 shot Rossi .38 snubbies and a Remmington 870 stashed about the store.

This one has a much happier ending.

(although I did try to find a link to the story somewhere online ... its nowhere to be found thanks to the hopolophobic media)

sm
October 5, 2003, 03:17 AM
I heard about that.
I stashed K frames with 6 shots, multiple SGs,(only 1 of 5 had PGO,and I hate PGO, did fit under the desktop though ), steel plates , one way bulletproof glass...not to mention what we wore...full size 1911 for the kid here...should have seen what I had in the walk in safe...:)
02 tank,scotch, playing cards, phone, .308s, more k frames, more 1911s, more SGs...hidden of course , very accessible nonetheless. Liked being prepared I guess. Tendency to kidnap or put people in safes at the time. I concerned myself with the kidnap part...I was the most likely...and attempted a few times.

Mark Tyson
October 5, 2003, 08:45 AM
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=449851

Police track witnessess who tried to stop jeweller's killer
By Paul Peachey

04 October 2003

Two men came forward yesterday to tell police they had grappled with robbers who were fleeing from the jeweller's shop where they had murdered the owner, Marian Bates, four days ago.

It was a break the police badly needed. The witnesses' stories - of how they had first tried to pull one of the robbers from a motorbike, then halt his getaway - came as the case developed into a metaphor for the police's apparent inability to contend with Nottingham's rising gun crime.

The distraught family of Mrs Bates, who died trying to prevent robbers from shooting her daughter, has called on the Government to put its "money where its mouth is" over gun crime.

The political timing of the family's plea is likely to havae embarrassed David Blunkett, who had just told the Labour Party conference of record numbers of officers in Britain.

Nottinghamshire Police can only accept the family's criticism of policing levels. The Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire, Steve Green, admitted his resources were "stretched to the very limit dealing with the type of tough street crime". Nottinghamshire Police Authority has called an emergency meeting, to be held next Thursday, to discuss the incident and the force's response to gun-related crime. It is expected to call on the Home Office to provide more money for the force to tackle criminals with guns.

The details of the case have captured the imagination of Arnold, the Nottingham town where Mrs Bates died. She leapt in front of her daughter, Xanthe, 34, as one of the robbers pointed a gun and demanded jewellery at their Time Centre shop, which the family has run for 25 years.

Mrs Bates's husband, Victor, 64, who was hit over the head with a crowbar, said the gunman had first tried to shoot him but the weapon misfired.

The shop has been raided by an armed robber twice. Nearly two years ago Xanthe was threatened by a man brandishing a knife.

Mrs Bates' daughters, Xanthe and Naomi, spoke emotionally about the attack. Thanking well-wishers for the many messages of condolence, they called for a return to old-fashioned policing.

"When we came to Arnold 30 years ago, there was a bobby on this street who would have a cup of tea with us," Xanthe said. "Now you see no one from week to week. We need policeman who are approachable on the streets of Britain."

Their father, Victor Bates, 64, who was injured in the attack, said: "Many of my friends are senior police officers and some of them have tears in their eyes when we talk about modern policing.

"I have no argument with Mr Blunkett or Mr Blair, they do a hard job and they can't always get it right.

"But they need to make changes and persuade forces like Nottinghamshire to put officers back where people can see them."

Gun crime has become a serious problem in Nottingham, mainly related to drug disputes between rival gangs, and the city was the first place in mainland Britain where specialist firearms officers were deployed on routine foot patrols.

At least 28 people were shot in Nottingham during a six-month period last year, and in 2001 police recorded 693 firearm offences in the county, an increase of 70 per cent on 10 years earlier.

Figures from the latest Home Office crime statistics for 2002-03 show the county had the highest recorded rate of offences per head of population. Nottingham, one corner of a "golden triangle" of increasingly affluent cities in the east Midlands that includes Leicester and Derby, is seen as an area of rich pickings for robbers. Nottingham is also home to many nightclubs, which makes it attractive to drug pushers.

To counter the threat, the force has mounted a series of drug and gun crime initiatives, which led in 2001 to the arrest of 400 people.

Dozens of those arrested were from Jamaica, and some were deported to face questioning over murders in their home country.

The police authority is concerned that high-profile policing in the city centre and known troublespots has pushed violent crime to less well-protected areas on the outskirts of the city.

The killers of Mrs Bates shrugged off the witnesses as they ran from the shop and sped away on a stolen scooter. The scooter, which had been stolen a month earlier in the city, was later found dumped.

Police think it may have crashed into a car during the pair's escape.

Nottinghamshire Police say they are also following a number of leads and are examining CCTV footage of the area on the day of the raid.

The officer leading the investigation, Detective Superintendent George Frame, called on other criminals and family members of the two raiders to call the police if they had any suspicions.

BluesBear
October 6, 2003, 01:10 AM
Nottinghamshire Police Authority has called an emergency meeting, to be held next Thursday, to discuss the incident and the force's response to gun-related crime. It is expected to call on the Home Office to provide more money for the force to tackle criminals with guns.

Hey Constable Sparky! Here's a news flash for ya....

If y'all would stop wasting money on tackling innocent citizens with guns you'd have PLENTY of money left over to use to catch CROOKS! :cuss:





Silly me, y'all don't have innocent citizens across the pond, Y'all have innocent SUBJECTS. :banghead:


Damn glad grandpa left Blackpool in 1909.


And while England might be our most steadfast ally they are also their own worst enemy.

Didn't we have to send them guns in BOTH world wars because they didn't have enough to go around?



And one more thing...
England is a PERFECT example of how governmental gun control doesn't work... England is an ISLAND for Pete's sake! and the bad guys STILL can get them.



OK, I'm done now.

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