CDC studying the effectiveness of gun laws (merged thread)


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cuchulainn
October 2, 2003, 02:08 PM
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htmFirst Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws

Findings from the Task Force on Community Preventive Services

<snip>

Summary

During 2000--2002, the Task Force on Community Preventive Services (the Task Force), an independent nonfederal task force, conducted a systematic review of scientific evidence regarding the effectiveness of firearms laws in preventing violence, including violent crimes, suicide, and unintentional injury. The following laws were evaluated: bans on specified firearms or ammunition, restrictions on firearm acquisition, waiting periods for firearm acquisition, firearm registration and licensing of firearm owners, "shall issue" concealed weapon carry laws, child access prevention laws, zero tolerance laws for firearms in schools, and combinations of firearms laws. The Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws or combinations of laws reviewed on violent outcomes. (Note that insufficient evidence to determine effectiveness should not be interpreted as evidence of ineffectiveness.) This report briefly describes how the reviews were conducted, summarizes the Task Force findings, and provides information regarding needs for future research.

<snip>

Results

The systematic review development team identified 51 studies that evaluated the effects of selected firearms laws on violence and met the inclusion criteria for this review. No study was excluded because of limitations in design or execution. Information on violent outcomes was available in 48 studies, and the remaining three studies, which provided information on counts or proportions of regulated firearms used in crime, were used as supplementary evidence. Several studies examined more than one type of firearm law.

Several separate studies evaluated effects of the same law in the same populations during overlapping time periods. Such studies were considered nonindependent, and effect estimates from the best study in the group (as determined by the quality of design and execution and the length of the follow-up period) were chosen to represent the effects of the intervention. The total number of studies for each intervention, and the number of studies that actually contributed effect estimates to the body of evidence, are listed (Table). More extensive evidence tables will be available at http://www.thecommunityguide.org when the full evidence review is published.

Evidence was insufficient to determine the effectiveness of any of these laws for the following reasons.

Bans on specified firearms or ammunition. Results of studies of firearms and ammunition bans were inconsistent: certain studies indicated decreases in violence associated with bans, and others indicated increases. Several studies found that the number of banned guns retrieved after a crime declined when bans were enacted, but these studies did not assess violent consequences (16,17). Studies of the 1976 Washington, D.C. handgun ban yielded inconsistent results (18--20). Bans often include "grandfather" provisions, allowing ownership of an item if it is acquired before the ban, complicating an assessment of causality. Finally, evidence indicated that sales of firearms to be banned might increase in the period before implementation of the bans (e.g., the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994) (21).

Restrictions on firearm acquisition. The federal government and individual states restrict the acquisition and use of firearms by individuals on the basis of their personal history. Reasons for restriction can include prior felony conviction, conviction of misdemeanor intimate partner violence, drug abuse, adjudication as "mentally defective,"â€*â€* and other characteristics (e.g., specified young age). The Brady Law (22) established national restrictions on acquisition of firearms and ammunition from federal firearms licensees. The interim Brady Law (1994--1998) mandated a 5-day waiting period to allow background checks. The permanent Brady Law, enacted in 1998, eliminated the required waiting period. It normally allows 3 days for a background check, after which, if no evidence of a prohibited characteristic is found, the purchase may proceed (23). Certain states have established additional restrictions, and some require background checks of all firearms transactions, not only those conducted by federal firearms licensees.

The permanent Brady Law depends on the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). However, NICS lacks much of the required background information, particularly on certain restriction categories (23). Efforts to improve the availability of background information have been supported by the National Criminal History Improvement Program (24). Approximately 689,000 applications to acquire a firearm (2.3% of 30 million applications) were denied under the Brady Law from its first implementation in 1994 through 2000 (25); the majority of denials were based on the applicant's criminal history. However, denial of an application does not always stop applicants from acquiring firearms through other means.

Overall, evaluations of the effects of acquisition restrictions on violent outcomes have produced inconsistent findings: some studies indicated decreases in violence associated with restrictions, and others indicated increases. One study indicated a statistically significant reduction in the rate of suicide by firearms among persons aged >55 years; however, the reduction in suicide by all methods was not statistically significant. Furthermore, this benefit appears to have been a consequence of the waiting period imposed by the interim Brady Law (which has since been dropped in the permanent law) rather than of the law's restrictions on the basis of the purchaser's characteristics (26).

Waiting periods for firearm acquisition. Waiting periods for firearm acquisition require a specified delay between application for and acquisition of a firearm. Waiting periods have been established by the federal government and by states to allow time to check the applicant's background or to provide a "cooling-off" period for persons at risk of committing suicide or impulsive acts against others. Studies of the effects of waiting periods on violent outcomes yielded inconsistent results: some indicated a decrease in violent outcome associated with the delay and others indicated an increase. As noted previously, one study of the interim Brady Law indicated a statistically significant reduction in firearms suicide among persons aged >55 years associated with the waiting period requirement of the interim law. Several studies suggested a partial "substitution effect" for suicide (i.e., decreases in firearms suicide are accompanied by smaller increases in suicide by other means) (26).

Firearm registration and licensing of owners. Registration requires that a record of the owner of specified firearms be created and retained (27). At the national level, the Firearm Ownership Protection Act of 1986 specifically precludes the federal government from establishing and maintaining a registry of firearms and their owners. Licensing requires an individual to obtain a license or other form of authorization or certification to purchase or possess a firearm (27). Licensing and registration requirements are often combined with other firearms regulations, such as safety training or safe storage requirements. Only four studies examined the effects of registration and licensing on violent outcomes; the findings were inconsistent.

"Shall issue" concealed weapon carry laws. Shall issue concealed weapon carry laws (shall issue laws) require the issuing of a concealed weapon carry permit to all applicants not disqualified by specified criteria. Shall issue laws are usually implemented in place of "may issue" laws, in which the issuing of a concealed weapon carry permit is discretionary (based on criteria such as the perceived need or moral character of the applicant). A third alternative, total prohibition of the carrying of concealed weapons, was in effect in six states in 2001.

The substantial number of studies of shall issue laws largely derives from and responds to one landmark study (28). Many of these studies were considered to be nonindependent because they assessed the same intervention in the same population during similar time periods. A review of the data revealed critical problems, including misclassification of laws, unreliable county-level crime data, and failure to use appropriate denominators for the available numerator crime data (29). Methodological problems, such as failure to adjust for autocorrelation in time series data, were also evident. Results across studies were inconsistent or conceptually implausible. Therefore, evidence was insufficient to determine the effect of shall issue laws on violent outcomes.

Child access prevention laws. Child access prevention (CAP) laws are designed to limit children's access to and use of firearms in homes. The laws require firearms owners to store their firearms locked, unloaded, or both, and make the firearm owners liable when children use a household firearm to threaten or harm themselves or others. In three states with CAP laws (Florida, Connecticut, California), this crime is a felony; in several others it is a misdemeanor.

Only three studies examined the effects of CAP laws on violent outcomes, and only one outcome, unintentional firearms deaths, was assessed by all three. Of these, two studies assessed the same states over the same time periods and were therefore nonindependent. The most recent study, which included the most recent states to pass CAP laws and had the longest follow-up time, indicated that the apparent reduction in unintentional firearm deaths associated with CAP laws that carry felony sanctions was statistically significant only in Florida and not in California or Connecticut (30). Overall, too few studies of CAP law effects have been done, and the findings of existing studies were inconsistent. In addition, although CAP laws address juveniles as perpetrators of firearms violence, available studies assessed only juvenile victims of firearms violence.

Zero tolerance laws for firearms in schools. The Gun-Free Schools Act (31) stipulates that each state receiving federal funds must have a state law requiring local educational agencies to expel a student from school for at least 1 year if a firearm is found in the student's possession at school. Expulsion may lead to alternative school placement or to "street" placement (full expulsion, with no linkage to formal education). In contrast to the 3,523 firearms reported confiscated under the Gun-Free Schools Act in the 1998--99 school year, school surveys (32) indicate that an estimated 3% of the 12th grade student population in 1996 (i.e., 85,350 students) reported carrying firearms on school property one or more times in the previous 30 days. Thus, even if only 12th grade students carry firearms, fewer than 4.3% of firearms are being detected in association with the Gun-Free Schools Act.

No study reviewed attempted to evaluate the effects of zero tolerance laws on violence in schools, nor did any measure the effect of the Gun-Free Schools Act on carrying of firearms in schools. One cross-sectional study, however, assessed the effectiveness of metal detector programs in reducing the carrying of firearms in schools (33). Although firearms detection is not explicitly required in the Gun-Free Schools Act, the effectiveness of the law may depend on the ability to detect firearms by various means. The study reported that schools with and without metal detectors did not differ in rates of threatening, fights, or carrying of firearms outside of school, but the rate of carrying firearms to, from, or in schools with detection programs was half that of schools without such programs. The effectiveness of zero tolerance laws in preventing violence cannot be assessed because appropriate evidence was not available. A further concern is that "street" expulsion might result in increased violence and other problems among expelled students.

Combinations of firearms laws. Governmental jurisdictions (e.g., states or nations) can be characterized by the degree to which they regulate firearm possession and use. Whether a greater degree of firearms regulation in a jurisdiction results in a reduction of the amount of violence in that jurisdiction still needs to be determined. Three kinds of evidence were reviewed for this study: 1) studies of the effects of comprehensive national laws within nations; 2) international comparisons of comprehensive laws; and 3) studies in which law types within jurisdictions (i.e., regulation of specific, defined aspects of firearm acquisition and use) were categorized and counted, and counts compared with rates of specific forms of violence within the same jurisdictions. The latter type are referred to here as index studies because they developed indices of the degree of regulation. In drawing conclusions about law combinations, findings from the three approaches were considered.

On the basis of national law assessments (the Gun Control Act of 1968 in the United States and the Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1977 in Canada), international comparisons (between the United States and Canada), and index studies (all conducted within the United States), available evidence was insufficient to determine whether the degree of firearms regulation was associated with decreased (or increased) violence. The findings were inconsistent and most studies were methodologically inadequate to allow conclusions about causal effects. Moreover, as conducted, index studies, even if consistent, would not allow specification of which laws to implement.

In summary, the Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence. References and key findings are listed (Table).

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Skunkabilly
October 2, 2003, 02:19 PM
Which states prohibit carrying concealed weapons?

What is the mission statement of the CDC, is violence considered a 'disease'? What's next, a Justice Department study on clean water? :rolleyes:

longeyes
October 2, 2003, 02:21 PM
"What is the mission statement of the CDC, is violence considered a 'disease'?"

No, the disease is freedom.

Brian Dale
October 2, 2003, 02:30 PM
No, the disease is freedom. And they're ready with the cure.

And yup, clean water hasta fit in with "Homeland Security." If the bliss-ninnies ever take the White House again, it'll be coming soon to a watershed near you.

2dogs
October 2, 2003, 02:31 PM
inconsistent results

Conclusion:

CDC ought to stick to DISEASE, something they probably know about and leave social studies to sociologists, most of whom I'm willing to bet are as willing to push a leftist agenda as the CDC.:rolleyes:

cslinger
October 2, 2003, 02:38 PM
So lemmee get this straight. Based on my cursery glance I gather the following.

We spent who nows how much money on this research and we have come to the conclusion that we know exactly nothing more than we knew before we started. Basically guns and gun laws don't appear to be a statistically important part of violent crime.

So can I deduce that criminals who commit crimes are probably the deciding factor.

Come on somebody give me a grant or something.

Andrew Rothman
October 2, 2003, 02:44 PM
The no-CCW states are WI, IL, KS, NE, and OH.

http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.gif
(http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.gif)

benewton
October 2, 2003, 04:06 PM
Mpayne:

Time to update Alaska, I think!

gun-fucious
October 2, 2003, 04:21 PM
CDC: More Study Is Needed on Gun Laws
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031002/ap_on_re_us/cdc_gun_laws_1
By KRISTEN WYATT, Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA - A sweeping federal review of the nation's gun control laws — including mandatory waiting periods and bans on certain weapons — found no proof they reduce firearm violence.

_

The findings from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (news - web sites) could be used to undercut the gun-control movement.


The CDC said its report, released Thursday, suggests more study is needed, not that gun laws don't work. But the agency said it has no plans to spend more money on firearms study.


Some conservatives have said that the CDC should limit itself to studying diseases, and some have complained in the past that the agency has used firearms-tracking data to subtly push gun control. In fact, since a 1996 fight in Congress, the CDC has been prohibited from using funds to press for gun control laws.


Since then, an independent CDC task force reviewed 51 published studies about the effectiveness of eight types of gun-control laws. The laws included bans on specific firearms or ammunition, measures barring felons from buying guns, and mandatory waiting periods and firearm registration. None of the studies were done by the federal government.


In every case, a CDC task force found "insufficient evidence to determine effectiveness."


Most of the studies were not funded by the CDC. Gun-control advocates quickly called on the government to fund better research.


"There have not been enough good surveys to know whether these laws work, and that's a very sad and troubling fact," said Peter Hamill, spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.


The National Rifle Association said it needed more time to review the CDC report before commenting on it.


Firearms injuries were the second leading cause of injury deaths, killing 28,663 people in 2000, the most recent year for which data was available. About 58 percent of the deaths were suicides. Gun accidents claimed about 775 lives that year.


About the only conclusion the CDC could draw from the surveys was that mandatory waiting periods reduced gun suicides in people over 55. But even that reduction was not big enough to significantly affect gun suicides for the overall population.


The CDC complained that many of the studies were inconsistent, too narrow, or poorly done.


"When we say we don't know the effect of a law, we don't mean it has no effect. We mean we don't know," said Dr. Jonathan Fielding, chairman of the CDC task force. "We are calling for additional high-quality studies."


Among the problems:


_ Studies on firearm bans and ammunition bans were inconsistent. Some showed the bans decreased violence; others found the bans actually increased violence. Many firearm bans grant exemptions to people who already owned the weapons, making it hard to tell how well a ban worked. Other evidence showed that firearms sales go up right before bans take effect.


_ Studies on background checks were also inconsistent, with some showing decreased firearm injuries and others showing increased injuries. A major problem with those studies, the CDC report said, was that "denial of an application does not always stop applicants from acquiring firearms through other means."


_ Only four studies examined the effectiveness of firearm registration on violent outcomes, and all of the findings were again inconsistent.

_


_ Too few studies have been done on child-access gun laws to gauge their effectiveness.

_ Study periods often are too narrow to tell whether gun laws work. The task force noted that "rates of violence may affect the passage of firearms laws, and firearms laws may then affect rates of violence."

___

On the Net:

CDC Injury Prevention and Control: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/ncipchm.htm

Grey54956
October 2, 2003, 04:24 PM
The CDC link no longer works.

Pertinent information has been repressed. Obviously, someone didn't like the findings of this study..

El Tejon
October 2, 2003, 04:25 PM
The CDC just shot HCI and VPC in the foot!:p

Henry Bowman
October 2, 2003, 05:03 PM
Funny how the CDC gets spanked by Congress for "studying" non-diseases and pushing an anti-gun agenda and is prohibited from spending money on such "studies." So they spend money on studying other studies and come to the conclusion that . . . more money desperately needs to be spent on more studies.

Also they seem to make no effort to evaluate the merit of the studied studies; just to say that they are conflicting and inconclusive. Methinks that if the anti-gun studies had more merit, they would have declared so. Their silence indicates to me that a true analysis would have resulted in a conclusion they didn't like. After all, if you are going to "study studies" but make no conparison of their relative merits, then what's the point. Never mind. I know. The point is to spend your total budget on showing why you need a bigger budget. I get it.

Brian Dale
October 2, 2003, 05:03 PM
gun-fu, you're right, but let's go further:Studies on firearm bans and ammunition bans were inconsistent. Some showed the bans decreased violence; others found the bans actually increased violence. Many firearm bans grant exemptions to people who already owned the weapons, making it hard to tell how well a ban worked. Other evidence showed that firearms sales go up right before bans take effect. "actually increased violence?" They're confessing their tacit assumption here: that legal ownership of firearms is a part of the crime problem, and boosts the crime numbers in spite of the bans. I think that these so-called "inconsistencies" decrease crime in spite of the bans. CDC apparently doesn't address the issue. A major problem with those studies, the CDC report said, was that "denial of an application does not always stop applicants from acquiring firearms through other means." There's been a suspicious lack of data shown regarding the number of felons who are prosecuted and imprisoned for attempting to purchase firearms. If they were in prison, they wouldn't have the opportunity to "acquir[e] firearms through other means." Or are these numbers simply speculation?

Frohickey
October 2, 2003, 05:05 PM
What this study means, since the results are inconclusive is that the antigunners cannot have exclusive use of the excuse 'If it only saves one life, its worth it'.

Sean Smith
October 2, 2003, 05:23 PM
Aside from the fact that maybe CDC shouldn't be studying this subject at all, I don't see why you folks are getting twisted about it. Did y'all actually read what it says? The end result of their study was that there is no correlation that they can find between stricter gun laws and reductions in violence. Basicaly, they just exposed the big lie of the gun grabbers by saying that you can't demonstrate that gun control reduces violence.

And of course they said the subject should get further study; that's how they get more money.

Tell this to a waverer on the RKBA issue: "Did you know the CDC did a huge study of gun laws and violence, and couldn't find any correlation between the two at all?"

Standing Wolf
October 2, 2003, 06:40 PM
(Note that insufficient evidence to determine effectiveness should not be interpreted as evidence of ineffectiveness.)

Yeah, but if the topic were so-called "global warming," now...

DMK
October 2, 2003, 08:39 PM
CDC to Study if Gun Laws Prevent Violence

By KRISTEN WYATT, Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA - A sweeping federal review of the nation's gun control laws — including mandatory waiting periods and bans on certain weapons — found no proof such measures reduce firearm violence.

The review, released Thursday, was conducted by a task force of scientists appointed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The CDC said the report suggests more study is needed, not that gun laws don't work. But the agency said it has no plans to spend more money on firearms study.


Some conservatives have said that the CDC should limit itself to studying diseases, and some have complained in the past that the agency has used firearms-tracking data to subtly push gun control. In fact, since a 1996 fight in Congress, the CDC has been prohibited from using funds to press for gun control laws.


Since then, the task force reviewed 51 published studies about the effectiveness of eight types of gun-control laws. The laws included bans on specific firearms or ammunition, measures barring felons from buying guns, and mandatory waiting periods and firearm registration. None of the studies were done by the federal government.


In every case, a CDC task force found "insufficient evidence to determine effectiveness."


"I would not want to speculate on how different groups may interpret this report," said Dr. Sue Binder, Director of CDC's Center for Injury Prevention and Control. "It's simply a review of the literature."


Most of the studies were not funded by the CDC. Gun-control advocates quickly called on the government to fund better research.


A spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said the laws work, but it is nearly impossible to prove it because people can buy guns in one state and carry them into one of the handful of states with strong antigun measures.


"It's hard to study whether gun control laws work in this country because we have so few of them," said Peter Hamm. "Talking about studying gun control in this country is like talking about studying democracy in Iraq."

The National Rifle Association said it needed more time to review the report before commenting on it.


Firearms injuries were the second leading cause of injury deaths, killing 28,663 people in 2000, the most recent year for which data was available. About 58 percent of the deaths were suicides. Gun accidents claimed about 775 lives that year.


About the only conclusion the task force could draw from the surveys was that mandatory waiting periods reduced gun suicides in people over 55. But even that reduction was not big enough to significantly affect gun suicides for the overall population.


The task force complained that many of the studies were inconsistent, too narrow, or poorly done.


"When we say we don't know the effect of a law, we don't mean it has no effect. We mean we don't know," said Dr. Jonathan Fielding, chairman of the CDC task force. "We are calling for additional high-quality studies."


Among the problems:


_ Studies on firearm bans and ammunition bans were inconsistent. Some showed the bans decreased violence; others found the bans actually increased violence. Many firearm bans grant exemptions to people who already owned the weapons, making it hard to tell how well a ban worked. Other evidence showed that firearms sales go up right before bans take effect.


_ Studies on background checks were also inconsistent, with some showing decreased firearm injuries and others showing increased injuries. A major problem with those studies, the report said, was that "denial of an application does not always stop applicants from acquiring firearms through other means."

_ Only four studies examined the effectiveness of firearm registration on violent outcomes, and all of the findings were again inconsistent.

_ Too few studies have been done on child-access gun laws to gauge their effectiveness.

_ Study periods often are too narrow to tell whether gun laws work. The task force noted that "rates of violence may affect the passage of firearms laws, and firearms laws may then affect rates of violence."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=534&e=5&u=/ap/20031002/ap_on_he_me/cdc_gun_laws

Obiwan
October 2, 2003, 08:50 PM
"We are calling for additional high-quality studies."

Because we hav not wasted nearly enough of your tax dollars yet....

We are just getting started!

Sounds like they have a little too much time on their hands....

Perhaps we could find some dollars for the homeland security efforts there!

AZRickD
October 2, 2003, 09:15 PM
The Carter administration paid liberal sociologists James Wright and Peter Rossi to discover which gun controls work so that Carter could propose more of them.

They reported in their article that they could find no gun control laws that had reduced crime and could think of none that would.

Do a google search if you want to read their study.

Rick

Moparmike
October 2, 2003, 09:18 PM
"It's hard to study whether gun control laws work in this country because we have so few of them," said Peter Hamm. "Talking about studying gun control in this country is like talking about studying democracy in Iraq.":confused: :confused: :confused: Compared to whom? England? Austrailia?

Stop spreading propoganda and admit what the data tells you: GUN CONTROL LAWS DONT WORK.

Gun control works perfectly for me....I always hit my target...:evil:

tyme
October 2, 2003, 09:40 PM
In other news, the Department of Transportation has been asked to determine whether the polar icecaps are melting.

cuchulainn
October 2, 2003, 09:42 PM
Already under discussion here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=42819

pax
October 2, 2003, 10:52 PM
Duplicate threads merged -- I took the liberty of renaming the thread to reflect that, too.

pax

Quartus
October 3, 2003, 12:56 AM
Duplicate threads merged -- I took the liberty of renaming the thread to reflect that, too.


pax, I'd like to see you folks do that more often - it cuts down on confusion.

Quartus
October 3, 2003, 01:08 AM
And as to this news story, well, this is all I have to say:

Marko Kloos
October 3, 2003, 06:10 AM
A spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said the laws work, but it is nearly impossible to prove it because people can buy guns in one state and carry them into one of the handful of states with strong antigun measures.

"It's hard to study whether gun control laws work in this country because we have so few of them," said Peter Hamm. "Talking about studying gun control in this country is like talking about studying democracy in Iraq."

We only have 20,000+ gun control laws on the books in the U.S. of A., and handguns are the only consumer product that requires FBI approval for every single sale. And this clown gets away with saying stuff like this in public, and not get laughed off the stage...

Jmurman
October 3, 2003, 06:27 AM
if the results dont agree with your thinking, then you just STUDY it some more!

This study is crap, they need to stick with diseases

marvl
October 3, 2003, 10:06 AM
The CDC said its report, released Thursday, suggests more study is needed, not that gun laws don't work.

Hmmm, sounds like they have an agenda. Not very scientific. :rolleyes:

XLMiguel
October 3, 2003, 10:14 AM
Lessee, they spent all this $$$$ to find out that criminals don't obey laws!?!?! Wow. I'm so friggin' proud to be a taxpayer:barf: :barf: :barf:

gun-fucious
October 3, 2003, 11:13 AM
gotta love the Headline choice in Balmer today:

CDC finds no proof gun-control laws work
After sweeping review, federal agency suggests that more study is needed
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press
Originally published October 3, 2003

http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationworld/bal-te.guns03oct03,0,6820531.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines

gun-fucious
October 3, 2003, 11:40 AM
some interesting edits in the article have appeared

olde version:

CDC: More Study Is Needed on Gun Laws
Thu Oct 2, 3:34 PM ET

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031002/ap_on_re_us/cdc_gun_laws_1


"There have not been enough good surveys to know whether these laws work, and that's a very sad and troubling fact," said Peter Hamill, spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

new version:

CDC Finds No Proof Gun Laws Curb Violence
Thu Oct 2, 6:44 PM ET

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031002/ap_on_go_ot/cdc_gun_laws_3

"It's hard to study whether gun control laws work in this country because we have so few of them," said Peter Hamm. "Talking about studying gun control in this country is like talking about studying democracy in Iraq."

Brian Dale
October 3, 2003, 02:05 PM
There's a pro-logic, pro-proper use of language, maybe even pro-gun editor at the AP, or at Yahoo? COOL! :)

Keith
October 3, 2003, 02:12 PM
"Inconclusive" means that since the data didn't support the conclusion they had already reached (that gun laws reduce violence), there must be something wrong with the study so let's forget the whole thing...

Keith

LiquidTension
October 3, 2003, 04:31 PM
Did you guys catch this part?

"Results across studies were inconsistent or conceptually implausible "

This means that they cannot - no no, make that WILL not - believe that gun control increases crime. They're just telling everyone that the results don't mesh with their opinion, so they'll suppress the results and say that they need to study some more stuff :rolleyes:

WAGCEVP
October 3, 2003, 08:24 PM
CCRKBA Alerts
Date: Oct 3, 2003 7:41 PM




NEWS RELEASE
CDC REPORT ON GUN CONTROL CONFIRMS LAWS DON'T WORK, SAYS CITIZENS COMMITTEE
BELLEVUE, WA-A report released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) showing that there is no conclusive evidence that gun control laws contribute to decreases in violent crime or suicide "proves what we have been saying for years," the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA) said today.

"For years," said CCRKBA Executive Director Joe Waldron, "anti-gun groups, often citing the CDC's earlier biased research, had claimed more gun laws will reduce violent crime and suicide. CDC stopped conducting advocacy research in 1996 by order of Congress. Now, according to more balanced research, the CDC is basically acknowledging that its earlier efforts, and those of extremist gun grabbers, have been all wet."


Yet the CDC, evidently unhappy with the available research, wants to study the issue more, arguing that there is "insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence." Waldron rejected that as more partisan politics.


"Because the CDC could not reach yet another anti-gun conclusion," he said, "they want to study some more, at least until they come up with a report that squared with their long-standing anti-gun agenda. That doesn't wash. For the first time, CDC has had to acknowledge that gun control doesn't work."


The report brought an incredulous comment from Peter Hamm with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence: "It's hard to study whether gun control laws work in this country because we have so few of them."


CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb offered this blistering response: "Hamm is half-baked. Gun ownership in this country is heavily regulated by a Pandora's Box of federal, state and local gun laws, many which often conflict with one another to the point that private citizens cannot know whether they are obeying a law while breaking another. The CDC report seems to confirm what we've been saying all along. Gun control laws have no impact on criminals, only law-abiding citizens who don't commit crimes. To suggest we need more laws when the ones already passed as successive panaceas apparently haven't worked is ludicrous.


"The CDC's suggestion for additional studies, simply because they don't like the results of their own research, is like treating a patient with drugs that you know aren't working, so you give him more of the same drugs," Gottlieb observed.


With more than 650,000 members and supporters nationwide, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is one of the nation's premier gun rights organizations. As a non-profit organization, the Citizens Committee is dedicated to preserving firearms freedoms through active lobbying of elected officials and facilitating grass-roots organization of gun rights activists in local communities throughout the United States.

Waitone
October 3, 2003, 09:20 PM
There should be no doubt now that gun control is a religious belief. It is based in a series of unverifiable assumptions which lead to actions which in some cases defy logic.

Now the gun control community is faced with having to defend a religious belief. How so? With scholarship, tadpole. Study the effect of the operating assumptions, but don't dare challenge the assumptions. After all, some beliefs are just too important for us to question.

gun-fucious
October 4, 2003, 12:13 AM
The Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence Statement on New CDC Report Evaluating Effectiveness of Firearms Laws

10/3/03 9:43:00 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: National Desk

Contact: Blaine Rummel of The Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence, 202-408-7560, ext. 118; http://www.efsgv.org

WASHINGTON, Oct. 3 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention today released a new report evaluating the effectiveness of firearms laws in preventing violence. According to the report, there is insufficient evidence to fully evaluate the effectiveness of U.S. gun laws, highlighting the need for additional research in the field. The study authors cautioned that the findings "should not be interpreted as evidence of ineffectiveness." (MMWR 2003; 52(no. RR-14)).

Joshua Horwitz, executive director of The Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence, had this to say:

"We agree with the study's authors: more research in this area is sorely needed. But the sad truth is that the gun lobby has blocked federal dollars for firearms research at every turn. This study reveals the folly of the gun lobby's attack on objective research in preventing gun violence. At a time when America's gun death rate is again rising after years of decline, the government must commit more resources to gun policy research, not less.

"We anticipate the gun lobby to misinterpret the findings of this report. We expect them to point to the study as 'proof' that gun laws do not work in a willful attempt to mislead the public.

"In fact, the report goes out of its way to state that there is no evidence suggesting that gun laws don't work. It simply states that there is not enough research to draw conclusions.

"Americans know the effects of having lax gun laws: high crime and high gun death rates. We also know that common sense plays a big role. For example, Americans don't need a study to understand that military-style assault weapons serve no useful purpose, and should be banned from our streets."

tyme
October 4, 2003, 04:00 AM
Do people who support gun control mostly believe that they can get rid of all the guns, or do they believe that getting rid of a good number of legal (held by law-abiding citizens) guns will reduce gun crime substantially?

Dorian
October 4, 2003, 04:41 AM
"Americans know the effects of having lax gun laws: high crime and high gun death rates. We also know that common sense plays a big role. For example, Americans don't need a study to understand that military-style assault weapons serve no useful purpose, and should be banned from our streets."

:barf:

Moparmike
October 4, 2003, 05:09 AM
For example, Americans don't need a study to understand that military-style assault weapons serve no useful purposeOf course they dont. That is why they were invented 60 years ago, because it would be a new way to friviolusly spend money on things without purpose. Everyone knows that the US military and all militaries around the world use only the finest in useless junk. Also, no one in their right mind would desire to protect themselves from government oppression because our government in its infinite benevolence would never do something like that.:barf: :scrutiny: :fire: :cuss: :banghead:

Wait, those are 3 reasons. :confused: Damnit! In trying to agree with his logic, I just refuted it! Damn it! I will never get this mindless blissninny bereft-of-logic thing down. :banghead:

, and should be banned from our streets."Ok, tell me where you live, and I wont carry my soon to be purchased scary asthetically-displeasing homeland defense rifle on your street. I promise. Would you like me to get you a nightlight next to your bed and check under your bed for monsters as well?:scrutiny: Moron.

2dogs
October 4, 2003, 12:10 PM
Might I suggest that all of the pro-gun groups take some our donated cash and run full page ads in every major newspaper touting this study?

You know if CDC had said the laws did prevent gun violence the liberal minions would have every newspaper-TV news program blasting it 24/7.

2dogs
October 4, 2003, 12:18 PM
Sorry, wrong place.:o

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