.223/5.56 fragmentation vs expansion


PDA






kry_90
February 15, 2009, 11:23 PM
which is more effective a 55gr. fmj that fragments or say a 62gr. nosler partition round
out of a 16" barrel ar 15

If you enjoyed reading about ".223/5.56 fragmentation vs expansion" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
RockyMtnTactical
February 15, 2009, 11:32 PM
I'd say it depends on the target and the range.

kry_90
February 15, 2009, 11:37 PM
okay lets say for shtf so anything from deer, varmint, or even humans no farther than 200 yrd

RockyMtnTactical
February 15, 2009, 11:44 PM
For humans, at ranges of 100 yards or less (which is the most likely range and threat IMO), I want a good fragmenting bullet. Some will give you more range than that, but they are expensive.

For all purpose use, at longer ranges, for hunting large animals (i.e. Deer or bigger), and if your AR15 feeds them properly/reliably, expanding rounds like soft points or partitions might be preferable for the purpose of getting adequate penetration.

For me, I have XM193 as my primary stash ammo...

HorseSoldier
February 16, 2009, 12:07 AM
Fragmenting is generally considered better for defensive/anti-personnel use.

Eb1
February 16, 2009, 12:13 AM
Soft Points in the .223 especially in the 3200 fps (55 grain) range are meat eaters. I have pics of a recovered 55 grain Black Hills Soft Point, and the deer it absolutely devastated.

For general stopping power, I want a soft point .223 bullet. 100%

You will not have to rely on fragmentation. I will dump energy no doubt, and will leave a mess.

748
February 16, 2009, 12:19 AM
1600fps seems to be the fragmentation thersh hold for M193 bullets when hitting soft materal.
At 1600fps the M193 bullet breaks in two along the crimp cannel.
And from there the faster they go the more bits they break up into.

RockyMtnTactical
February 16, 2009, 12:42 AM
Just to be clear, the frag thresholds for M193 are in the 2500-2700fps range...

HorseSoldier
February 16, 2009, 12:45 AM
You can get better fragmenting ammo -- Mk 262, the Hornady TAP loads, etc. M193 is good for range work, but I'd pick fancier stuff for company . . .

rangerruck
February 16, 2009, 01:07 AM
fragmentation, that is what it is designed to do best.

lej
February 16, 2009, 05:59 AM
worth while read on the subject

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/AR15_Ammo_FAQnRules/index.htm

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=406468

jester_s1
February 16, 2009, 10:00 AM
Unless you are an expert shot (and who isn't?) the .223 is not a deer caliber. With perfect double lung shots or spine shots it does fine, but if you want to ensure humane kills move up to at least a .243 and preferably something bigger.

Eb1
February 16, 2009, 10:29 AM
You gotta love how everyone wants to push there opinion on how you should hunt. I guess the .223 is only good for humans and dogs, but don't tell the deer I have killed with it. It might hurt their feelings.
I am starting to think this way. If you think a .223 is not enough gun for deer. Then why don't you go out and buy the person hunting with the .223 a gun you think they should have? Maybe you would sleep better at night knowing that all the deer that fall to .223 are deader with a larger caliber.

RockyMtnTactical
February 16, 2009, 04:50 PM
You gotta love how everyone wants to push there opinion on how you should hunt. I guess the .223 is only good for humans and dogs, but don't tell the deer I have killed with it. It might hurt their feelings.

What are you talking about? Who is "everyone"?

BornAgainBullseye
February 16, 2009, 08:18 PM
Somebody please take back all the deer I killed with my .223! Mabye I could tell them that they were shot with a .223 and they will come down off the wall and out of the freezer and frollock back to the woods! Yes it kills them dead as dead. Never had one run off. I do not use it for shots over 200 anymore but if I am hunting in lightly wooded areas with 100 yard or so shots it is my go to gun since I was 10 years old. For sitting on open fields I will grab my .308 but that .223 is a fine deer killer! Back to the post...... I would choose a Nosler Ballistic tip 55gr. For the reason that 100 yards it will turn every organ into stew if you hit in the chest cavity. Especially if you hit bone. The bone will act as secondarys shedding anything in its path. There have been many o deer I have just cut open and taken a water hose to it to wash away what used to be lungs heart spleen liver and sometimes even guts. And if you get bord with zombies you can turn a crow into feather dust

jester_s1
February 16, 2009, 11:03 PM
I didn't say it wouldn't kill them, I said it's not a deer caliber for anyone who isn't an expert shot. I've heard the stories about how it rolls 'em up, guts 'em, skins 'em, and puts 'em in the freezer for you too. but I've also spoken with hunters who've spent hours tracking an animal hit marginally in the liver or the shoulder who will never use such a light caliber again. A particular game warden talks about a cull hunt (90+ deer shot) that made him believe the .243 isn't big enough either. One story in particular was a hunter who killed a doe and found two .22 caliber slugs, perfectly mushroomed, in her guts.

.22's work with perfect hits, but give me bullets in the 130-150 grain range that will get the job done even when conditions aren't perfect or I don't do my part.

Javelin
February 16, 2009, 11:21 PM
If you want the best ammo on the market, have a 1:7 twist barrel, and can shoot true 5.56 loads from your AR then you would have to find Hornady TAP II (its TAP in the red box) LE in 75gr.

You can't get any better but your going to pay for it and it is very hard to find as Hornady is serious about not not allowing any of its distributors to sell it to any non-LE/mil unfortunately.

:)

IdahoLT1
February 16, 2009, 11:46 PM
Hornadys TAP line is pretty decent. Their 62gr. Barrier is probably the most suitable for deer. Here it is compared to their 55gr "Urban" and 40gr "Urban".

Bare Gelatin: 62 gr TAP 2758 fps 16" bbl. 1/9" Twist (side)
Total Pen. 15.75", Max. Cav. 6"
Depth to Max. Cav. 5", Entry .5"
Retained weight: 37 gr.

http://i41.tinypic.com/30lgfuq.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/xf0ow2.jpg

Bare Gelatin: 55 gr TAP 2910 fps 16" bbl. 1/9" Twist (side)
Total Pen. 8.75", Max. Cav. 4.25"
Depth to Max. Cav. 5", Entry .5"
Retained weight: 17 gr.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2qn8779.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/1jqe06.jpg

Bare Gelatin: 40 gr TAP 3350 fps 16" bbl. 1/9" Twist (side)
Total Pen. 7", Max. Cav. 5"
Depth to Max. Cav. 4.5", Entry 0"
Retained weight: 0 gr
http://i43.tinypic.com/o9465d.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/28mfuya.jpg

browningguy
February 17, 2009, 12:07 AM
Personally I prefer a 55-62 gr. softpoint for use in multiple situations, and that's what I keep stored. I also have 52 gr. HP's and other loads around, but the 55-62 SP is what I would stock up on for just about anything.

If you enjoyed reading about ".223/5.56 fragmentation vs expansion" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!