FN Five-seveN 5.7X28mm


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MovedWest
February 16, 2009, 12:50 AM
Wondering if anyone here owned or used an FN Five-seveN pistol? It looks intriguing, but no one in my area has any experience with it. Looking for opinions.

Link to FN Herstal info (http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=269&backPID=263&productID=66&pid_product=295&pidList=263&categorySelector=5&detail=)

Looks like similar logic to the .17HMR.

-MW

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Kind of Blued
February 16, 2009, 12:53 AM
I don't think you'll have any luck here. I don't think any THR members have an opinion on the Five-seveN or the 5.7x28mm cartridge...

:D

Just kidding. I'd get some popcorn going.

greenr18
February 16, 2009, 01:29 AM
Looks like similar logic to the .17HMR.


err no not really the only similarity is small caliber bottle-necked case bullet, thats where the similarity ends.

PTK
February 16, 2009, 01:33 AM
I carry one as my primary. I've tested various loads out of it and I have NO problem carrying it as a self-defense pistol.

MovedWest
February 16, 2009, 01:46 AM
Looks like similar logic to the .17HMR.
err no not really the only similarity is small caliber bottle-necked case bullet, thats where the similarity ends.

That's the similarity in logic I'm referring to. As for performance, it's supposedly a whole new ball game.

-MW

PTK
February 16, 2009, 01:54 AM
With FMJ bullets, it IS a whole different game. Think 10-14" penetration with very little recoil, plus the bullet is 40gr and yet moving fast enough (~1950FPS) to damage flesh as if it were a rifle round, and the gun loaded with 21rds is lighter than an empty 1911.

Heck, even with the "lead free" 27gr bullets, you're getting 8-10" of penetration and a horrific wound cavity.

Personally I wouldn't carry the blue tip varmint rounds, though. :)

Trustin
February 16, 2009, 02:00 AM
kicks a lot like a .22 magnum. shoots accurate as all get out, and feels like a Lego gun. grip is like holding a 2x4, but decently comfortable.

ThrottleJockey
February 16, 2009, 02:01 AM
OMG! I like the look of it, I like the ballistics, accurate to 200m!!! Not sure I really believe that. I do not like the price at all, and the ammo seems a bit out of range for me too, at $129 for a box of 50.

MatthewVanitas
February 16, 2009, 02:09 AM
at $129 for a box of 50.

You must be looking at defensive ammo. Plinking ammo is 40c a shot, which isn't cheap, but isn't much more than .45 ACP is these days.

Supposedly Federal is supposed to start making plinker ammo for it, which could bring the price down below that of .45 ACP. A lot of folks are still in "goodness 5.7 ammo is sooooo expensive" mode from years ago when 5.7 was 80c a shot and .45 ACP was 20c a shot. Now there's far less difference in price.

MovedWest
February 16, 2009, 02:14 AM
I do not like the price at all, and the ammo seems a bit out of range for me too, at $129 for a box of 50.

Agreed it's a pricey pistol, which is why I threw this out there. Not sure where you're looking for ammo, but here's a link for some more affordable stuff:

5.7 Ammo @ Able's (http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=109791)

It does look like a nice carry piece. :D

-MW

ThrottleJockey
February 16, 2009, 02:17 AM
From what I can tell, this ammo is only imported for LE/Mil now. I would love to try one out, but probably won't be buying one until and if I can find one used. Seems very popular. Maybe what I was seeing is old info:)

MovedWest
February 16, 2009, 02:20 AM
kicks a lot like a .22 magnum. shoots accurate as all get out, and feels like a Lego gun. grip is like holding a 2x4, but decently comfortable.

Surprising lack of recoil for such a beast of a round! Good info on the grip. Reminds me of firing my buddy's 10mm Glock. I'm a bit accustomed to revolvers for my large caliber pistols, so this is a consideration. But a round of that size makes sense to have a large grip in an auto.

-MW

PTK
February 16, 2009, 02:20 AM
My pistol cost ~$950, came with three mags, and factory carry ammo is $18/50. Where's the problem?

And yes, the grip is rather long front to back - my SO has trouble holding it with just one hand.

MovedWest
February 16, 2009, 02:28 AM
With FMJ bullets, it IS a whole different game. Think 10-14" penetration with very little recoil, plus the bullet is 40gr and yet moving fast enough (~1950FPS) to damage flesh as if it were a rifle round, and the gun loaded with 21rds is lighter than an empty 1911.

PTK - Holy crap! Those are some stout numbers! How is it for reliability? Any info on range and ballistics? Have you seen the damage firsthand on any critters?

Another thing that interests me as a black rifle owner is this:

AR-57 upper (http://www.impactguns.com/store/AR-57%20UR.html)

Call me crazy, but this transfers into versatility and bulk ammo discounts for rifle and handgun!

-MW

PTK
February 16, 2009, 03:21 AM
Reliability... well... hm, over 3k rounds now and not ONE SINGLE MALFUNCTION.

Read that again. Three thousand rounds, zero malfunctions of any kind.

I've seen what a blue tip varmint round does to a squirrel, no issues there. Haven't seen what the LF or what the 40gr FMJ rounds do to flesh, only ballistics gel and armor.

Range, figure 100 yards out of the handgun, 200 yards on the blue tip out of the carbine, 300 yards+ with the FMJ stuff.

Best part? Those are actually realistic numbers for effective range. :D

Second Amendment Liberal
February 16, 2009, 05:38 AM
reading up on cartridge statistics, it has around the same energy as +P 9mm and .45

PTK
February 16, 2009, 05:43 AM
How dare you post that... I thought the 5.7x28mm was a weak round akin to a .22wmr?

;)

Hk91-762mm
February 16, 2009, 10:22 AM
How about chambering a premium rifle[Kimber etc] for the 5.7 rnd.
That would be a great little varmint getter.

PTK
February 16, 2009, 02:27 PM
I think FNH is going to make a bolt action 18-22" barreled rifle chambered for this, actually?

usp9
February 16, 2009, 04:18 PM
I like it. I paid $700 for the pistol and $15 a box for a bunch of ammo. When that's gone I'll have to pay the $20 abox it is now, but until then...

I do wish the trigger were better but that's really my only beef. It's accurate, stays remarkably clean, loads easier than any gun I own, and is very reliable.

For the record; I do not think they explode unless the owner does something really negligent and/or stupid.

Walkalong
February 16, 2009, 05:02 PM
I found the pistol interesting, but did not want to spend 900 bucks just to try it out. I did, however, buy an AR57 (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90672&d=1231548232). I get just over 2100 FPS from 197 SR ammo. It is great fun. With 50 round mags, I think I could hold someone at bay at the very least. If I bump into a used Five Seven pistol at the right price, I may grab it.

I have been reloading for it (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=418831). I reloaded for it before I ever received my factory ammo. Everyone was 3 weeks behind shipping at the time, probably still is.

I think FNH is going to make a bolt action 18-22" barreled rifle chambered for this, actually?That would be cool. I know there are folks making Contender barrels as well.

slammy
February 16, 2009, 10:34 PM
I have had a 57 for over a year and have run about 2.5k rounds through it. I have never had a mis-fire or mis-feed. I have paid from $18 to $22 for 50 round box of ammo. The gun was accurate at 25 yards out of the box. I can't say anything bad about the gun other than it's a bit to large for cc. My son came across a 10 round extension for the standard clips so I converted a couple of mine but the spring could be a little larger. I paid $820 for mine at Bass Pro in Georgia. Better get them now the Lib's call them a cop killer!

I love the gun.....

mljdeckard
February 17, 2009, 12:31 AM
My brother-in-law just bought one, so I guess I'll find out.

The velocity and energy from the pistol barrel are comparable to a 22 mag from a rifle barrel.

LightningMan
February 17, 2009, 01:12 AM
There's a good thread on this forum compareing the 5.7x28mm to the 9mm round. Video too! http://www.fnforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=12889&sid=b7c32f92ba785b1be53c829e3f1f6bde

GregGry
February 17, 2009, 02:54 AM
Right now the only round I have seen hit 12 plus inches (12.5 inches of penetration) is a solid copper round in a non fnh ammo. Most of the rounds are in the 10 inch or less range when it comes to penetration. The solid round becomes even more of an issue since the tests I have seen show that it tends to not tumble, which is likely the primary reason it is able to penetrate as far as it does. Thats a problem since your dealing with a small caliber bullet and without tumbling it is effectively a pointy .22 mag bullet out of a handgun.

At the same bullet weight a .22mag will likely penetrate further given same barrel lengths. I am not sold on the idea of the 5.7 as a round that is in the league of the 9mm, 40, or .45. Primary reasons being:

1 The rounds that end up tumbling penetrate 8 to 9 inches in ballistics gel. I am not sold that tumbling is more effective then what a 9mm-.45 will do.

2 The rounds that don't tumble tend to be a straight hole, little to no cavitation, and still barely go above 12 inches of penetration. I don't even consider the FBIs standard of 12 inches the absolute minimum, however considering 9mm and .45 rounds designed for self defense can achieve 14.5 inches of penetration and .6 inch plus expanded diameter, the 5.7 leaves much to be desired.

3 People tout its armor defeating properties, however after going through a vest you would be lucky to see 6 to 8 inches of penetration. Its certainly no 5.56 round.

4 190 ammo is available, only if you want to pay huge prices. Most of the ammo around is expanding varmint type bullets, which do produce a nasty looking cavity in ballistics gel, however so does birdshot out of a shotgun.


So take your pick. You want a nasty wound and temporary cavity, pick the expanding bullets. Of course its at the expense of penetration (around 8 to 9 inches). Want more penetration? Then your going to limit the tumbling action and you essentially have a wound similar to a .22mag. None of the rounds penetrate in ballistics gel to what I have seen 147 grain 9mm or 230 grain 45 self defense ammo do.

I don't doubt that the 5.7 can kill, however I have yet to see any proof that it really offers anything better then 9mm, .40, or .45 acp does. Other then less recoil.

GregGry
February 17, 2009, 03:17 AM
Also, tests like shooting into wet phone books will likely show that a 5.7 round penetrates further then a 9mm or 45 bullet. However phone books, and light body armor always show that a small diameter pointy bullet is better at penetrating, especially when its a FMJ 5.7 round vs a expanding 9mm or .45 round. This doesn't mean that the 5.7 will work better in tissue though. The 195lf round is in the mid 9 inch penetration area in ballistics gel, most 9mm and .45 acp rounds are well above that. Its likely that the phone books help keep the rounds from tumbling which will increase the penetration at an expense of the cavity created by the tumbling action.

Considering the expense of the gun (900+ in most cases) the lack of ammo at reasonable prices (and availability at local places) and the comparisons to the 9mm its my opinion that the 5.7 pistol just isn't worth the money. You can get a glock 17 (or similar type pistol) with 1K rounds of practice ammo, and 200 rounds of good self defense ammo for the same price as just the 5.7 pistol. Your dealing with a caliber (9mm) that will achieve 12 to 15 inches of penetration at a 9mm diameter bullet in the event of no expansion, and even more if it expands. Same thing can be said for the .45acp. Relying on a bullet tumbling to cause a serious wound is even more of a variable then trying to rely on the expansion of a round to provide wounding.

If fn puts the price of the five seven pistol down to about 500$, increases the availability of practice ammo at decent prices, and had factory made ammo thats available to everyone thats capable of 12.5 inches + of penetration (With tumbling) they might just have a hot ticket. Instead you have to sacrifice to much and you really can't have your cake and eat it too.

matai
February 17, 2009, 03:31 AM
So would this be any good for bear defense with that kind of penetration?

748
February 17, 2009, 12:14 PM
I dont know, would you use a 45 or 9mm on an angery bear?
When I lived in maine I got a super red hawk in 44mag for 4 legged trouble makers.
My little step brother started useing a 3x9 scoped 22WMR to hunt deer with when he was 12. So far every year he has killed his limit (one) for the last 4 years with his little marlin rifle. In maine its perfectly legal to use 22WMR on deer. So it works good and there is all most no ruined meat like you get with a 270 firing 120gr HP.

GregGry
February 17, 2009, 01:33 PM
So would this be any good for bear defense with that kind of penetration?

Does using a 22mag with a pointy bullet sound like a good idea to stop a bear? The answer is no...

Walkalong
February 17, 2009, 02:17 PM
If fn puts the price of the five seven pistol down to about 500$,like many of the the other polymer guns.

Yea, those were my thoughts too when I saw the price the first time.

TAB
February 17, 2009, 02:46 PM
Don't forget the 5.7x28 is a very LOUD round from a pistol.

mljdeckard
February 17, 2009, 06:31 PM
Pay close attention: This is NOT a bear gun.

xxxstarmaniac
February 18, 2009, 10:16 AM
The five seven is an excellent handgun. It comes with 3 20 round magazines. It is accurate out of the box even for less experienced people. It is $800-$1000 for the gun itself. The ammo is $18-$25 a box of 50. There are makers of high end ammo; specifically, elite ammunition, whose ammo is much hotter than ANY factory loads and are $35-$45 a box of 50.

This is information coming from someone who owns a few guns, including multiples of this one.

I would feel safe with this gun in my hands for any normal task (except bears you nuts!:neener:). It is especially effective as a car gun for women, due to the low recoil and high ammo capacity.

I do not conceal carry this gun unless wearing winter coats. I also carry 10mm, 45acp, 357 sig & mag, 44mag, etc. (no not all at once:D).

In summary,
The gun costs the same as MANY others, H&K, Kimber, some Sigs, etc. As a first gun or new addition it would be fine, as long as you have something. As always there are those who nay say when they have no true experience with a firearm. To these people I say: Don't buy one, don't cry about one, be happy with what you have, and I'll be happy with my mine. But just like the 327mag, if you don't like it for whatever reason, use what you do have and try not to be an expert on being an ass.:evil:

alistaire
February 18, 2009, 01:15 PM
The one I saw in a gun shop had a magazine safely AND two detents for the magazine. In the first position the gun would not fire or pickup rounds. In the second one, everthing worked. When inserting the mag, the mag would seem to be fully inserted when it was in the first position. It is a fine range toy or plinker, but I would never trust my life to a weapon like this.

I fired one at the range and it was reasonably accurate and had almost no recoil. The word about stopping power is that it has none. I'd rather carry a 22LR J-frame for self defense.

25ACP: When 5.7x28mm is not enough.

xxxstarmaniac
February 18, 2009, 01:38 PM
alistaire The one I saw in a gun shop had a magazine safely AND two detents for the magazine. In the first position the gun would not fire or pickup rounds. In the second one, everthing worked. When inserting the mag, the mag would seem to be fully inserted when it was in the first position. It is a fine range toy or plinker, but I would never trust my life to a weapon like this.

I fired one at the range and it was reasonably accurate and had almost no recoil. The word about stopping power is that it has none. I'd rather carry a 22LR J-frame for self defense.

25ACP: When 5.7x28mm is not enough.
Stick to your 22lr kid. Just like your opinion on the 327mag, if you don't own it/ like it it's not good enough. Sounds like the morons debating the ps3 & xbox 360.

Use whatever you feel is good enough. Im sure people complained about those new fangled cars vs horse/ cartridge vs muzzleloader/ plastic guns (glock) vs 1911, but if you own one its the right one. I own them all. Its because people are willing to purchase the niche items that some advancements are made on the rest.

Id rather base my purchase on the pros/cons of an educated shooter instead of one with an opinion on any and everything he cant afford.

alistaire
February 18, 2009, 04:40 PM
I see you didn't read my post.

slammy
February 18, 2009, 07:48 PM
The FBI decided against the 57 as a standard issue weapon because of it's lack of penetration. Tactical teams like the round because they don't have to worry as much about collateral damage when doing a felony entry.

The 57 would be my primary carry if not for the sheer size.

Gun test mag did an extensive review in 07 I think??

BTW I can't find any of the armor defeating ammo - I think it's 28 grain but I'll have to try and find my old gun test mag to be sure.

Rodentman
February 18, 2009, 09:11 PM
I think it's great fun to shoot and I have no issue about carrying it, except it's a bit large.

If I had the $ for only 1 auto I'd buy a Sig instead of the FN but I am lucky enough to have more than one.

I hope to start reloading for it soon.

http://fototime.com/9F17FD39A8A1A0A/standard.jpg

loki.fish
February 19, 2009, 09:43 AM
The only problem I've had out of mine was some old blue tip ammo that was a known bad batch for the pistol(worked fine in ps90).

Ballistically I have no personal experience, just what I've read on various forums. There is a guy I saw a couple years ago on the fiveseven forums that would hunt deer with his FiveseveN pistol and had no issues killing them in one hit.


Too those of you complaining about it's lack of stopping power, isn't the popular reply to most of those caliber arguments:
"It's all about bullet placement!"?

xxxstarmaniac
February 19, 2009, 09:56 AM
Loki,

Is every gun we purchase based on one principle or percieved "need"? Do they all have to have monsterous stopping power?

Initially, yes. After you have at least one firearm, the cost of ammo usually drives us to buy a 22lr of some sort.

However, the "word is", "I hear", "seems like" don't mean a thing. Hearsay is just that, hearsay.

Beyond the rumor mill, you will find the 57 outperforms others in some ways, and underperforms in others.

You will find ammo that is for sale to us all that outperforms ALL FACTORY ammo. You can reload the same. People cannot comprehend this.

I say again, if you have some reason to dislike any firearm, move along until you find one you like.

I like the ones that work, and they all serve a purpose. It is an enjoyable pastime, and you don't have to like anything someone else has, but they are not an idiot for liking it.

It is all the same, and we are all enthusiasts. Respect others choices as you expect them to respect yours.

loki.fish
February 19, 2009, 10:02 AM
Agreed, all about preference.

MovedWest
February 19, 2009, 02:48 PM
Is every gun we purchase based on one principle or percieved "need"?

This is a good point. I think the most useful guns in my collection are the most versatile. The one that floats to the top of the list is my 44mag - I have 6 different loads for it depending on who is shooting it and what the target is.

The Five-seveN does seem to be fairly focused in it's purpose, which is why I threw this question out there to you guys. I was hoping to see what you guys used it for. With a 40gr bullet I probably wouldn't use it for bear (but I DO have a 44mag load that I have designed for that purpose :D).

Seems like the best use for it would be a carry gun, especially for the wife. The recoil would be ideal if it's comparable to a 22WMR. She can hold the 44 steady and handle the recoil of 44spl loads, the 9mm is a bit jumpy for her to be accurate with, and she likes my 22LR/22WMR's. This sounds like a good compromise. Please note I am NOT calling this a chick gun!

Thanks for all the input!

-MW

I don't think you'll have any luck here. I don't think any THR members have an opinion on the Five-seveN or the 5.7x28mm cartridge...

Just kidding. I'd get some popcorn going.

Kind of Blued - Good call on the popcorn! :D

nwilliams
February 19, 2009, 03:13 PM
I hate the 5.7x28! I would never want to own any gun that fires that pathetic round:D

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/FNs.jpg

Seriously I really do like the 5.7x28 and I really love the guns that fire it, that's why I own both, they are just so much fun. The cost of ammo is a big turnoff for many people but in reality it's not all that expensive. I just picked up a thousand rounds of 5.7 for $405 (including shipping) which came out to be about .40 a round or $20 per box of fifty. The way I see it fifty rounds of equivalent grade .223 is going to cost more than .40 per round. Midway has V-Max 5.7x28 for $22 a box, that comes out to about $8.80 per twenty rounds, in comparison twenty rounds of V-Max .223 is selling for about $15 a box.

Wesson Smith
February 20, 2009, 02:26 AM
I know it's cliche to say this, but I'm pretty darned sure that I don't want to be the test subject for this round's 'stopping power'. :eek:

alistaire
February 20, 2009, 10:45 AM
I would not want to be attacked by a parrot, but that does not mean that a parrot would be my first choice for a self defense weapon.

MovedWest
February 20, 2009, 02:13 PM
I would not want to be attacked by a parrot, but that does not mean that a parrot would be my first choice for a self defense weapon.

LOL... now THAT's funny!

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