9mm and the Urban Jungle???


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Omaha-BeenGlockin
October 2, 2003, 04:45 PM
OK---its official-----we have mountain lions in this town.

Police and Zoo officials captured yesterday an 108 pound---1.5 year old---male lion about 500 yards from the city's busiest intersection---in the creek bed---the same creek bed where the biking and running trail is.


So is a 9mm enough gun for a cougar??? Or do I have a really good excuse to tell the girlfriend that now I need the more powerfull GP100 I've been eyeing for the last month.---LOL

Here's the story:
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=1636&u_sid=873113


http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=1636&u_sid=874270&PHPSESSID=172e689466b51925e629a5ddc66e343e

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OEF_VET
October 2, 2003, 05:12 PM
Oh, you so definitely need that GP100. Even if a 9mm would put down a mountain lion the size of a small teen, you still need that .357.

Then of course, there are rats and snakes who occassionally find their way into your neighborhood. That sounds like a good reason for a .22 handgun. Oh, wait, there may be some rabid coyotes who come into town in search of food, you need a good varmint gun. I think an AR will fit the bill just perfectly. Then there are also those pesky vultures who'll be circling overhead to eat the carcasses left behind by the rabid coyotes. Now you need an 870 or 500. Mad cow disease may spread to the U.S., causing cows at the local dairy farm to stampede. You need a good .270 or '06.

There's always a good excuse to get another gun. You just have to make sure she's gullible (sp?) enough to believe it.

Frank

Old Fuff
October 2, 2003, 05:15 PM
Back in the early ‘80s I knew a professional lion hunter who worked for the Forest Service along the Arizona/Mexican border. He used a pack of dogs to tree the lions and then, as he put it, “dispatched” them with an old Marlin levergun chambered in .32 Rim Fire. That’s right, .32 Rim Fire. He was almost out of ammunition, and when I found him two boxes he acted like I was the best thing since sliced bread.

Of course he knew what he was doing, and wanted to preserve the pelts, which were valuable.

Anyway, I’d tell the girlfriend that you need TWO .357 Magnums. One should always have a backup when hunting such dangerous game.

JeepDriver
October 2, 2003, 05:17 PM
But that's just me. I love the 9mm.


A hot 9 may go right through and not expand, Might think about a heavier and slower 9mm load and go for the head shot if the situtation should arise.

I have heard some stories from Baltimore City PD Officers about shooting Pit Bulls and Rotties. They have been over penetrating with the 40S&W 165gr Ranger load. One office fired 12 rounds at a Rottie before it went down. :what: I don't know how many of those rounds were hit's though. For some reason they wouldn't tell me that part, might be because I'm always cracking on them about their shooting :evil:

Johnny Guest
October 2, 2003, 07:32 PM
- - Though I'd prefer my usual .45 Commander.

I read some years back that many of the professionals who guide lion hunts with dogs normally carry .22 Rimfire Magnum revolvers - - Rugged, fairly light, and plenty powerful enough to kill a bayed or treed cougar/puma/panther/painter/catamount/mountain lion/leon.

With my reknown luck, though, the amminal would probably come UNtreed, determined to occupy my current location. :eek:

Y'know, much as I like auto pistols in general, and the .45 ACP in particular, a man will seldom go wrong with a good .357. Yeah, yup, claro que si, you can easily justify the purchase of a sturdy magnum.:p

Best,
Johnny

CZ-100
October 2, 2003, 08:22 PM
Nope YOU NEED a 10mm :neener:

10-Ring
October 2, 2003, 08:29 PM
In my urban trails, I've come across a bobcat 2X a a mountain lion...if you've got bigger than 9mm (ie 357 mag ;) ), go w/ that, but if 9mm is all you've got, bring extra mags ;)

Standing Wolf
October 2, 2003, 08:34 PM
The nine-millimeter round beats a sharp stick; for myself, however, the .357 magnum is the right answer.

mete
October 2, 2003, 09:00 PM
Don't jog - mountain lions have a taste for joggers. There was a discovery channel program the other night - they interviewed the man who was attacked by a lion in vancouver island a year or two ago. He killed the cat with a folding knife, though he got chewed up in the process. Part of his survival was due to the fact that he had a blood disorder - his blood clots faster than normal .

CZF
October 2, 2003, 10:21 PM
When our cats come up missing each year. We know that a Cougar is
having fun. A guy killed one about 100 yards from us on Sunday.

Attacks by both Cougar and Black Bear are on the increase in the
Pacific Northwest.

I think that a .357 Magnum is marginal for either, but like a human..
a big cat can be killed with a .22. One guy killed a huge cougar with
a .45 ACP after he awoke to a heavy presence on his chest. He had
a t-shirt with muddy paw prints and blood on it!

I figure that it is my life or my small dog's and I'll stick to my 10MM or .44 Magnum.

Should you not want or need a 10MM. A nice Ruger or Smith .41 or .44 Mag would be ideal.

WonderNine
October 3, 2003, 05:07 AM
I'd prefer 9mm over most rounds in this situation. 9mm NATO FMJ out of a full sized 9mm will put down a 250lb person much less a 108 lb mountain lion pretty easily.

*pop* *pop*

plop

:D

sanchezero
October 3, 2003, 09:25 AM
Guys, it's not about whether 9mm is good enough. We should be supportive with informative posts about how inferior it is as a kitty killer.

O'BG can then show all of this 'factual' data to his lady to justify his purchase.

So, FYI O'BG...

There is no way that a 9mm is adequate to take down mountain lions; just look at the size of the round next to a .357. And then think about the big teeth and sharp claws on the evil cat. You need a bigger bullet to go up against one o' them thar beasts.

:)

Poohgyrr
October 3, 2003, 12:57 PM
I'd vote for one of the Smith 7 shot L frames. Rugers are fine and whatnot, but Cougars have sharp claws & big teeth. I want a Maggie. The 8 shot Smith PC revolvers would work well too. A .44 (magnum or warm Special) would be a pretty good alternative.

LeonCarr
October 3, 2003, 02:09 PM
We have occasional sightings on big cats out here in West Texas. A mountain lion can grow to be 7 feet long and around 250-275 lbs. Most of the folks around here will see one once or twice in their entire life. One fella that had a close encounter with one at night (deputy sheriff) put his .357 Magnum in the cats mouth and pulled the trigger. Instant kill. A 9mm would have worked under the same conditions, but I hope I never find out :).

Just my. 02,
LeonCarr

chaim
October 3, 2003, 03:53 PM
. One fella that had a close encounter with one at night (deputy sheriff) put his .357 Magnum in the cats mouth and pulled the trigger. Instant kill. Man, I hate those kind of stories. He shouldn't have done that. The poor thing probably just wanted to play or be petted and he went and killed it.

Ok, a bit more seriously...

I seriously hope I never get that close to any kind of wild predator (close enough to put your gun in the animal's mouth:what: ). If that close and you are still alive, sure you are right I'm sure anything will work. However, if at all possible I hope that if I do have a close encounter I can take care of it earlier than that. For a wild animal over 100lbs I'd prefer a 10mm or a magnum revolver (.357mag, .41mag) since a predator that has been scared or thinks you are a good meal will need some serious firepower. I would certainly want (desperately) both power and penatration and these calibers give the best of both.

Selfdfenz
October 3, 2003, 04:53 PM
One of my 9s holds 14+1, the other 17+1. And I have a 25 round mag that fits both!

Do you want big, or little, ML parts...
S-

denfoote
October 3, 2003, 05:35 PM
Like CZ-100 said, Just to be on the safe side, I'd go with a Glock 21 and the 6" hunting barrel. Loaded with the hottest loads I could find!! :D

Dr.Rob
October 3, 2003, 08:04 PM
Or you could opt to stay at home huddled on your stacks of hoarded MRE's and bottled water pointing a shotgun at the steel reinforced door.

Walk with a friend. Carry a pistol. See a lion, shoot friend in leg.

Lions got to eat too.

If you want another pistol, get one. You really don't need to make up excuses when the urban predators far outnumber the wild animals.

CZ-100
October 3, 2003, 08:56 PM
Like CZ-100 said, Just to be on the safe side, I'd go with a Glock 21 and the 6" hunting barrel. Loaded with the hottest loads I could find!!

Well I was think along the lines ony my Colt Delta Elite 10mm :neener:
(boy I love this Gun)

But the Glock will do too.:D

Caliburn
October 3, 2003, 09:06 PM
[QUOTE] Walk with a friend. Carry a pistol. See a lion, shoot friend in leg.

Dr Rob, that's beautiful! I nearly fell out of my chair!!!

Marko Kloos
October 3, 2003, 09:18 PM
Nine is fine. It's my favorite handgun caliber. Lots of history and combat use, low recoil, cheap to shoot (which translates into lots of practice), and very effective with modern hollowpoints.

A sensibly placed 9mm +P+ 9BPLE load will drop a lot of critters, of both the two- and four-legged variety.

Edward429451
October 3, 2003, 10:17 PM
ML's are pretty thin skinned so most anything'll do. You don't need a lot of penetration with them. If I had to use a 9mm on one I'd want the heavy ones rather than the light fast ones. A 45ACP might just be optimal, or a 44 spec. as someone said.

The reason hunters use .22's on them is so they'll bleed out in the tree and die rather than knockin em out with a heavy caliber and having the cat tear up expensive dogs before they die.

WonderNine
October 7, 2003, 05:28 PM
There is no way that a 9mm is adequate to take down mountain lions; just look at the size of the round next to a .357. And then think about the big teeth and sharp claws on the evil cat. You need a bigger bullet to go up against one o' them thar beasts.

.355 vs .357 :rolleyes:

Al Thompson
October 7, 2003, 05:56 PM
I have a boar skull with a hole about .70 through it. One 9mm +P 124 grain Gold Dot as loaded by Georgia Arms worked just fine.

sm
October 7, 2003, 06:09 PM
Dr. Rob has a good point, works for bears too I bet.

"WE can't outrun that critter, nope but all I have to do is outrun YOU".
No friend, take that pesky neighbors pet with you...

:D

El Tejon
October 7, 2003, 06:49 PM
Pistols, despite what some at THR think:D, are for fighting, not fashion statements.

If you thought the 9 was enough for the far deadlier animal of man, why is it wrong for a kitty? Man or beast, on foreign shore or at your door, it is a fight, up to you to win it.

It's just a handgun regardless. Train hard.:)

Skofnung
October 7, 2003, 07:39 PM
I have heard (from a very worldly fellow I might add)that North American big cats are not hard knock down. He said that once they are hit with anything, most of the time (though not all...) they will crumble.

Soooooo, your 9mm should work fine if you can hit with it.

Buuuuutt, you NEED to have a .357 in your box'o'weapons. If you need to justify to your ladyfriend the purchace of a new gun, this would be as good a reason as any. :D

Omaha-BeenGlockin
October 15, 2003, 01:05 PM
UPDATE----a SECOND lion has been sighted in the last week or so by several people(including police officers) in a wooded midtown park-----there is also a creek running by there-----over the years---I've seen beavers---dog sized racoons(as in Labrador retriever size---well maybe not quite that big---but close) and muskrats--------this is in the middle of the city right next to the busiest street in town.

This park has a golf course and borders the UNO campus-----Omaha is not exactly a hick town----with a metro population(not city proper) of 1.6 million.

Who'd a thunk it???

Here's the new story:http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=1636&u_sid=886933

Augustwest
October 15, 2003, 04:20 PM
I'd personally want something heftier than 9mm, but regardless of which tool you have:

Shot Placement, Shot Placement, Shot Placement...

JohnBT
October 15, 2003, 04:45 PM
WonderNine - You'd better take another look at your ammo. All of my .357 Mag. rounds are longer than my 9mm rounds.

Anybody know how long it takes a big cat to close on you from, say, 21 feet? How about 50 feet? I'm thinking the first shot better be a good one.

John

RVSinOK
October 15, 2003, 09:54 PM
I'll be just fine with 7 rounds of .357 maggies from my S&W 686+, thank you very much!

If that won't take the lion down, he deserves to win! :D

Fatcat
October 17, 2003, 02:01 AM
A cougar is by no means a large or tough animal. I could see no reason why a 9mm wouldn't put one down if you did your part with the accuracy (you don't want a wounded cat running around). They're pretty shy if they don't have the drop on you.

A cougar's deadliness, like most cats, lies in it's ability to silently stalk you until it sees the perfect opportunity to pounce and shred your throat. :D

(Yep, you're definately gonna need a .44... nah, too small... see if you can pick up a belt-fed .50. You'll need it to penetrate the cougar's rock hard skin. :rolleyes: :p )

DonGlock26
October 17, 2003, 10:55 PM
I always keep some catnip wrapped around a matchbox that I can throw towards any charging pumas. This would allow me time to assume the prone P-32 sniper position. Then, it's off to the taxidermist for my wife's new cougar stole.:neener:

Longbow
October 18, 2003, 08:25 PM
I think a 4" .44 mag would be ideal, but to be really sure....' how 'bout a S&W .500? :D
Its feels good that I don't have to worry about those things in my part of town. I feel for you... :)

Sapo
October 19, 2003, 12:04 PM
"Back in the early ‘80s I knew a professional lion hunter who worked for the Forest Service along the Arizona/Mexican border. He used a pack of dogs to tree the lions and then, as he put it, “dispatched” them ..."


Not to offend anyone but I think that's repulsive.

:fire:

earl_simmons
October 19, 2003, 04:25 PM
Anybody know how long it takes a big cat to close on you from, say, 21 feet? How about 50 feet? I'm thinking the first shot better be a good one.

Cougars can run 40 mph; they can leap 45 feet horizontally. If you are being hunted by a cougar, the problem isn't caliber selection - it is recognizing the presence of the animal before it has your neck in its mouth.

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