favorite tactical scope


Revolver Ocelot
February 16, 2009, 08:54 AM
I got about 1100 bucks to spend on a scope for an upcoming rifle, but I don't know a whole lot about this stuff unfortunately. I'm looking for a simple to use but ofcorse very reliable scope to mount an an ar style rifle, I'm thinking 2.5-10x magnification but am always open to suggestions.

and do they make these things with bullet compensators or is that just in the acogs?

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February 16, 2009, 09:01 AM
I like the EOtech + flip-to-side 3x magnifier setup. It's pretty darn cool.

February 16, 2009, 09:11 AM
I went with the Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm LR/T M2 w/ illuminated TMR, but the
Mark 4 2.5-8x36mm MR/T M2 w/ illuminated TMR would be an excellent choice.

Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm LR/T



The main feature on this scope that I was very interested in was the M2 knobs and how I liked them vs. the M3 knobs that I very much am a fan of. Both the M3 and M2 knobs are a Bullet Drop Compensating (BDC) knob, set to a specific caliber and load. As you may notice in the above picture, these M2 knobs are closer to the 3.5-10x M3 knobs than the knobs found on the 10x40 M3 scopes (used by the US Army), which are a low profile knob. In fact, these M2 knobs are the same shape and size as the 3.5-10x M3 knobs, so what is the big difference? Well, the ONLY difference is that the M2 knobs are .5 MOA per elevation click while the M3 knobs are a 1 MOA per click. The windage on both the M3 and M2 knobs are the same at .5 MOA per click. The advantage the M2 has over the M3 is that it allows for more precise adjustment and zero (twice as precise... to be exact) The down side is that it now takes twice as many clicks to get to various ranges, which you can get used to, and that you can no longer get to 1000y in a single rotation with the 308. The M2 knobs have 29 MOA of adjustment per revolution and for the .308 168gr Match load that it comes default with, it will get you to 800y in the first revolution, and is marked on the 2nd level for 9 and 10 (1000yards). I think this is an acceptable compromise because the 308 is more practically used from 800 on in, but it is nice to have it indicated out to 1000 in case you need it. Because of that 2nd level on the BDC, care still must be taken if shooting out at 900+ to be sure you keep track of where the BDC is set (300 or 900??). The leupold custom shop will also mark a new knob for whatever caliber you want, so you are not stuck with the .308. Kenton Industries will also make custom marked BDC knobs for this scope, though I do not believe they can do them in earth brown.

The factory says there is 65 MOA of adjustment, though this particular sample had 76 MOA of vertical adjustment, 27 MOA down from factory zero and 49 MOA of up. There should be enough "slop" either direction to zero the scope at 100yards with most typical 308 rifles and still have all the adjustments needed to get to 1000y without a slanted base. You will notice there is a bias in the factory zero to allow for more up MOA. Unless your bases or action are out of whack, you should be okay in most cases. The clicks are precise and offer good tactile feel so you know when the click has happened, and the noise is muted, just the way I like it. I really like these new M2 knobs, I think it is a very good compromise between field adjustments and precision, and I would say I like the M2 knobs as much as the M3's, though I can't really say I like them more, both are excellent.

FULL STORY (http://www.snipercentral.com/mk4brown.htm)

Revolver Ocelot
February 16, 2009, 09:13 AM
now that is nice, though I was looking for something with a longer range on it and an ajustable magnification.

I will keep this one in mind though, I had planned on getting a 14.5 inch barrel for the rifle and having a fixed power to go with it.

so far the only scope brands I have looked at were the trijicon offerings and some fro Valdamda, I'm surpirsed these 2 didn't come to mind.

February 16, 2009, 09:40 AM
do yourself a favor and check out the IOR tactical scopes, they are a devent step up from the Leupold mk4's. Though you really can't go wrong with a mk4 make sure you get the M3 knobs though.

Revolver Ocelot
February 16, 2009, 11:00 AM
what exactly is an ior, to my understanding its a scope offered by Valdada but i can't seem to find anything listed as such

February 16, 2009, 11:02 AM
You are correct they are from Bucharest and have nice glass and turrets:


If I had $1500 and was in the market for a nice optic I would go with an IOR but like I said you really can't go wrong with a mk4 even though I believe they are a bit over priced. Another thought would be to get a new VX-3 (upgraded VX-III) and get M3 turrets put on by the Leupold custom shop. You would get a better scope that a mk4 that way and probably a lot less $$$.

Revolver Ocelot
February 16, 2009, 11:06 AM
so what makes it an ior? I'm not even sure what it means :/

I was leaning in the direction of these scopes because they came so highly recomend from what I have seen.

February 16, 2009, 11:11 AM
IOR Valdada Rifle Scopes is the name of the optics company in Romania. I.O.R stands for Romanian Optics Industry. Also see my suggestion above for a VX-3 custom shop idea.

Revolver Ocelot
February 16, 2009, 11:17 AM
I will be sure to check that out, and last question, if I wish to have it where I can adjust the bullet drop (which I may skip, seems a little to adavanced for me) I just get a scope with exposed knobs right?

I'm looking at the custom shop right now and all I gotta say is wow i'm glad you let me know about this, I can switch out the reticle for one that includes the bullet drop :)

however it won't let me add the m3 knobs to any of the vx-3 models, or the mark 4 for that matter.

February 16, 2009, 11:30 AM
I bought a Leupold Mk4 6.5-20x50mm Illuminated TMR Reticle for my 308. It's a great scope but I'm actually not all that excited about the illuminated reticle on it. Instead of just a dot in the middle the entire reticle glows red...it's more distracting than helpful for me. I never turn it on anymore. The scope if very clear and I love it...just wouldn't spend the extra money on an illuminated reticle next time.
I would stay away from the scopes with generic BDC (bullet drop compensation) reticles - with all the variations in calibers, bullet weights, etc... they're never going to be "right on" for you. Just get a standard reticle and have Leupold make a custom elevation knob for you. Then you can range the target and just turn the elevation knob to the desired distance.

February 16, 2009, 12:11 PM
Lipadj46, I am also in the market for a good scope, and what is so special about the IOR scopes? What does IOR scope have to offer that Mk4 does not?

I found a MK 4 3.5 ~ 10 x 40 mm LR/T M3 TMR without illumination for $999.

What is so special about a M3 turret vs M1?



February 16, 2009, 12:31 PM

What is so special about a M3 turret vs M1?

Read this (http://longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/leupold-m2-m3-knobs-35004/).

Revolver Ocelot
February 16, 2009, 12:39 PM
ok so which one has the m3 turret? none of them will allow it in the custom shop.

February 16, 2009, 12:46 PM
i've never understood the need for M3 knobs. certainly wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

i also don't buy the argument that they're faster because i don't count clicks on scopes.

if i need to shoot FAST, i'd use the reticle hold over. spinning knobs is slow.

if it's too dark for me to see the etchings on the turrets, then it's too dark for me to see through the scope and safely ID a target.

1/2 min is pretty coarse.

since i've been using mil scopes, i've found myself wanting a little more granularity than the 1/10th MIL adjustments, but it does make the math easy enough that i guess it's worth staying there.

i sometimes wonder if folks would have an easier time with math on the 1/10th MOA adjustments

Revolver Ocelot
February 16, 2009, 12:57 PM
ok, this is really helping me narrow it down alot, I'm planning on using this scope on a gun with an effective range of about 800 meters so I don't thinking I will need the option for that much fine tuning so I'm thinking...


or maybe a trijicon tr22 as I'd like to have illumination (or the option of), I'd like to find out more about the possibility of a leupold but I can't figure out what parts I should be adding in the custom shop to suit my purpose.

and lastly one scope that has caught my eye is the horus raptor, anyone heard of it before?

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