[jimpeel]

The case against .22 caliber "sniper rifles".

http://www.ardemgaz.com/ShowStoryTemplate.asp?Path=ArDemocrat/2003/01/16&ID=Ar01803

Prosecutors: Woman, 84, shot son-in-law in land feud
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

MURFREESBORO — An 84-year-old woman shot her son-inlaw dead from 220 yards away :eek: during a family feud over a patch of rural Arkansas land that she insisted was hers, prosecutors say.

"My mother had mental problems and there were a lot of things that were going on," said the woman’s daughter and the slain man’s wife, Johnnye Ruth Davis.

Police say Gertrude Raines shot Charles Davis, 62, with a .22-caliber rifle. Authorities say the rifle did not have a scope.

Raines’ property is adjacent to the Davis property.

Johnnye Ruth Davis said she and her husband were at a cow shelter on their property "minding our own business" Jan. 9 when a shot rang out.

"It’s something you could never imagine happening and certainly not by your own mother," Johnnye Ruth Davis said.

She said her mother believed she owned the land the couple was on.

Prosecutor Tom Cooper said the situation is not a case of selfdefense.

"He was 600 feet away. He was on top of a [shelter] for cows, working on the roof," Cooper said.

Pike County sheriff’s deputy Presto Glenn said Charles Davis was shot in the "midsection."

"From statements she made she intended on killing him," Glenn said. "It’s just a mess."

Raines was arraigned Monday before Circuit Judge Ted Capeheart, who set her bond at $75,000. She remained in the Pike County Jail on Wednesday, according to the sheriff’s department.

At the hearing, the prosecutor asked for a mental examination of Raines, and the judge ordered an exam at the State Hospital in Little Rock. Cooper said he found himself in an unusual situation.

"It put me in a quandary," the prosecutor said.

"What do you do with an 84-year-old ? I don’t think I’ve ever prosecuted anyone who’s 84 years old." The oldest defendant he could recall prosecuting before, Cooper said, was a 63-year-old crack dealer.

"I’ve never had anything like this," he said. "Every day brings something new in prosecution."

Cooper said when deputies searched Raines’ home, they found it dirty and in disarray.

"They caught 29 cats," he said. "There were at least 20 more that they couldn’t catch."

[Chris Rhines]

Nice shot.

- Chris

[cowdawg]

DAMN granny is still alive!!! wheres ellymay and uncle jed

[wingman]

(Never mess with a hillbilly's property.):rolleyes:

[Blackhawk]

Now we're going to see threads titled ".22 vs .45 as one shot stoppers."

Too bad, and sad for all.

But I wonder if falling off the roof did him in rather than being gut shot with a .22?

[2nd Amendment]

Gutshot with a .22 at over 200 yds and died from it? Of course a .22 can kill you dead as anything else but isn't death at that range and from that kind of hit unusual?

edit: Hey Blackhawk, they throwing you a party or anything for post 1000? Maybe a new member tag, like UBERPOSTER or something? Your very own set of brass plated pixels? :D

[Ed Brunner]

Range 1 mile. Be careful.

[TallPine]

She must be one heck of a shot. The bullet drop at 200 yards is what - about 24 to 36 inches?

[Blackhawk]

She must be one heck of a shot. The bullet drop at 200 yards is what - about 24 to 36 inches?Actually, I think she missed her intended target. Considering the wind, drop, etc., I'll bet she was trying to ping the roof and "accidentally" hit her SIL. For verification, tune into her lawyer's speil at her trial. "It was an unfortunate accident."

She'll walk (or be wheeled) out.... :D

[pax]

I feel sorry for the prosecutor.

pax

The word good has many meanings. For example, if a man were to shoot his grandmother at a range of five hundred yards, I should call him a good shot, but not necessarily a good man. --G. K. Chesterton

[spacemanspiff]

about ten years ago my grandmother bought a POS jennings .25, but we just knew she'd get surprised by a family member coming in her house and shoot them on accident.

i should see if she still has that POS, it needs to be properly disposed of.

[PATH]

Accident or not that is still one hell of a shot!

[4v50 Gary]

The prosecutor will prosecute and the jury will find her guilty of murder. Sentence? Life in a retirement home w/out possibility of parole and no field trips.

If this happened during the Revolution, it would have made our vaunted and feared riflemen look sooo common.

[sm]

Well since I reside in AR, shoulda heard the speil on the radio this am.
Basically a mess for all involved, family,well- problems there for sure, and SIL and MIL been feuding since the get go.
Heck of a shot for sure, probably been shooting since a young lass. Lucky or "Arkansas windage"-or both.

[Gila Jorge]

From what I've heard just another first degree premeditated cold blooded murder. So what if she's 80...she's still a cold blooded murderer!

[AZTOY]

That one hell of a shot!:what:

[DeltaElite]

She may have mental problems, but she is one hell of a shot.

[Joe Gunns]

Just doesn't pay to spend 40 years aggravating your MIL! She wanted to make sure SIL didn't get his way if she died first.

[Jim March]

Could this possibly be a .22*3*?

In any case, that's one ornery granny :rolleyes:.

[Coltdriver]

Even a small hole in your ascending or descending aorta will put an end to you right quick.

[QKRTHNU]

My Grandmother shoots chipmunks behind their barn from the kitchen window with a .22, it's a good 75yard shot.

[Kevlarman]

Did they mention what kind of .22 the gun was? Would a .22WMR make that much difference over say, a .22LR?

[80fl]

"Careful, you'll put 'yer eye out with that thing"

[joeislove]

My dad said when he was a kid, he used to sit on my grandparents' back porch and shoot the heads off water moccasins swimming across the pond out back with his single-shot .22 rifle. The middle of the pond is around 75yds, and the far side is around 120. He didn't have a scope. Later he bought a Marlin levergun, but said it wasn't as accurate. Not sure what the single was, although he mentioned that Pop bought it out of the Sears catalog (the thought boggles the imagination for someone born when I was).

Not an impossible shot, if you're used to the gun, I guess. Granny must still have pretty good eyesight. My dad can't shoot too well anymore, because he's too farsighted to see the sights clearly.

[jimpeel]

... isn't death at that range and from that kind of hit unusual? Not if you hit the Vena Cava.

[jimpeel]

TallPine She must be one heck of a shot. The bullet drop at 200 yards is what - about 24 to 36 inches?A .22LR has a velocity of ~1,200FPS so he was struck within 1/2 second after the shot. Gravitational physics states that the drop in 1/2 second for a simple falling object is ~16 feet. Bullets don't act according to pure gravitational physics, though.

Blackhawk Actually, I think she missed her intended target.

From the story:"From statements she made she intended on killing him," Glenn said. Doesn't sound like a lucky shot to me.

Gila Jorge From what I've heard just another first degree premeditated cold blooded murder. So what if she's 80...she's still a cold blooded murderer! Yep!

[Calamity Jane]

Police say Gertrude Raines shot Charles Davis, 62, with a .22-caliber rifle. Authorities say the rifle did not have a scope.

And at 220 yards.

http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/cwm/cwm/eek2.gif

Holy Astonishing Shots, Batman.

[KMKeller]

Granny's got an eagle eye on her!

[TallPine]

jimpeel:

I was just going by a chart in a Marlin catalog comparing the 22 LR and the 22 magnum. The chart only goes to 125 yards.

Sighted in at 50 yards (and 25 yds, both the same because the bullet goes up then down), the 22 is about 5-6 inches low at 100 yds. This is correct because I have tried it - holding at the top edge of a piece of 8.5*11 typing paper puts the hole right about in the middle. The chart looks like about 12" low at 125 yards. Hmmm, that's losing 6" in 25 yards. What would it be at 220 yds?

So ....? Does anybody else think this article is incorrect about the yardage? She would have had to aim several feet over his head.

[Greg L]

Apparently I'm in the minority here as I really don't consider a 200 yard shot all that great of a distance especially on a man sized target.

When our local range has silhouette practice my boys and I go down to plink with our .22s. My 10 year old has no problems hitting the 200 yard rams with his non-scoped 10/22 probably 75% of the time. In the army we trained on popups out to 300 meters. It really doesn't seem to me to be that difficult of a shot to make. A single killing shot at that distance with a .22 is certainly not easy, but a solid torso hit shouldn't be that difficult.

Just my 2% of a $

Greg

[TallPine]

My 10 year old has no problems hitting the 200 yard rams with his non-scoped 10/22 probably 75% of the time.

So ... :confused: ... how do you adjust for the bullet drop?

I know, I know - you aim high ... but it must be several feet ...?

[Azrael256]

I think Jim might be onto something here. It could well have been a .223... although I can't really imagine my grandma shooting anything larger than a .22. I was always told that a .22 isn't very accurate beyond about 100 yards, and with that much bullet drop... man... I have a really hard time imagining anybody pulling off that shot, much less grandma. I could be totally wrong, she could be just that good.

[Bainx]

Me thinks this be a hoax.

[TallPine]

220 feet maybe ..... ?

[Art Eatman]

I have an 18" square hanging plate out at 185 yards. With my 10/22 zeroed for 50 yards, I easily hit the lower part of the plate by holding on its top. There's commonly a 75-degree, 10mph crosswind; I rarely hold farther upwind than the upwind edge.

It's easy to hit that big a target with irons; I have a Mauser single-shot with the sight calibrated in meters. Using the 150-meter setting and high velocity stuff, you can clang the steel all day long.

Figure Granny was aiming at the head or upper torso; the hit in the mid-section would be expected. We don't know from reports what the wind was; she might have been just lucky, between her wavering and the wind direction.

The guy was probably just surprised; fell off the roof and the fall killed him. :) I'll wait for the coroner's report.

Art

[TallPine]

Now I just gotta go try dropping 22 LR bullets into a 5 gal bucket at 200 yards :D

Wonder if they'll come out the other side ....?

[gk1]

The drop on a .22 LR is 36"-40" at 200 yards, give or take a little. I can hit a soda can at 200 yards with one shot from my scoped 77/22, and do it any time I can get beer money for the shot. Granted, the scope makes it easier, but Granny's probably had a bit of practice in her 84 years. I can hit a 9"x16" gong at 200 yards with my iron-sighted .45 ACP 1911 just by holding over (though I'm not to the range trick stage with it yet; need to practice more). I get about 4 hits on the gong out of 7 shots. Keep in mind, that's a 230 grain bullet at 830 fps, and a 6.5" sight radius. Again, Granny's got good enough eyesight and a steady trigger finger, but she's not Carlos Hathcock.

George

[John Galt]

You guys are funny....

If it drops 36" & she aimed for the head with a 6-12" holdover, that's right in the middle of torso. If she was trying to kill him, she was aiming for his head & missed.

[cratz2]

I can hit a 9"x16" gong at 200 yards with my iron-sighted .45 ACP 1911 just by holding over

You are the man! I got to where I could hit the 12" diameter gong at 100 yards about 7 to 9 times out of 10 with a 6" barreled Dan Wesson with a 2 lb trigger. At 125 yards, about 5 or 6 out of 10. Tried to transition to centerfire. Been shooting 1911s two thirds of my 30 year life - on a good day, I can hit the 12" gong 3 out of 10 times with my most bestest, most accurate-ist 1911. And I could keep my shots at 25 yards to 1.5-2.5" with that gun.

[TallPine]

If it drops 36" & she aimed for the head with a 6-12" holdover, that's right in the middle of torso. If she was trying to kill him, she was aiming for his head & missed.

"Middle of the torso" ... ? That guy would have had to been seven feet tall.

A 36" drop aimed at his head would hit just about at his ... oh, never mind :D

Maybe she wasn't trying to kill him at all ... maybe she hit a little higher than she intended :D

[WilderBill]

Yep, you don't wanna mess with grannys.
When we helped my granny move to a nursing home, we discovered that Grandad had left her his pistol for protection.
20+ years later it was still in the drawer by the bed...loaded with .357+p+ semiwadcutters!
I don't doubt that she would have used it in the event of a breakin.

[Blackhawk]

jimpeel said:From the story:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"From statements she made she intended on killing him," Glenn said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Doesn't sound like a lucky shot to me.
You're going by the story. Her statements aren't "official" therefore not admissible therefore deniable.

She's going to say she intended to scare him under oath, I'll bet. Then it becomes involuntary manslaughter, and due to her age she'll walk unless she gets instutitionalized due to diminished capacity.

As for the TRUE facts, we'll never know, but I'll bet the shot itself was not the cause of death.

It will be an interesting story to follow.

[Cougar]

That could be any number of chamberings...

.22 rimfire in bbcap, cb cap, short, long or long rifle
.22 WMR (Magnum rimfire)
.22 Hornet
.22 Jet
.222 Rem
.223 Rem
220 Swift
.22-250
.22 PPC

All the above are technically .22 caliber rifles. I'm sure there are a bunch more...

[jimpeel]

Me thinks this be a hoax.I don't think the Arkansas Democrat Gazette would run a hoax, especially one with several respondents being quoted. Now, rense.com might support your contention, however.