Dick's Poor Experience


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poor_richard
February 16, 2009, 05:16 PM
I just want to relay a terrible experience I had at Dick’s Sporting Goods a couple months ago.

Dick’s had their Remington UMC 9mm on sale, so I went in to purchase some. The first time I went there, they were out of stock, so I asked for a rain check (in Michigan, stores are generally required by law to provide rain checks on advertised items). The clerk told me that, “Dick’s doesn’t give out rain checks on ammunition.” Being formerly in retail myself, I know that there is a law in place requiring them, and told him so. I also told him that there was even a case where one company was taken to task by the state’s Attorney General’s office for just such a matter. The clerk responded by stating, “Dick’s doesn’t care, they’re so big they’ll just ignore the AG.”

I didn’t argue with the guy and went home to do some research. I called the AG’s office, and asked told them my understanding of the law, and asked if I was correct. I was told that if there were quantity limits (such as “5 per store”), then they didn’t have to give rain checks. I double checked the ad, and saw no such limits. I then asked if there were any exceptions for ammunition, for which I was told no. They then asked me which store I was having problems with, and what had happened. After I told them that Dick’s wouldn’t give a rain check for ammunition, the AG person told me to file a complaint on line. I thanked the person, and hung up.

Before filing the complaint, I wanted to be sure that the advertisement didn’t say anything about the issue, and also give Dick’s a chance to rectify the issue, so I went back again. This time, when I asked for a rain check, I was also told “no”. I then asked to speak with a manager who told me the same thing. I told here that it was state law, and she replied that it was Dick’s policy. At this point, I was satisfied that they would not give me a rain check, so I ceased pursuing the issue on that matter, and instead asked if she (the manager) could tell me if the add mentioned anything about this policy of theirs. She looked only part way through the add before telling me that she didn’t know. I then asked her if she could find someone who did know if it was stated in the add. She again told me that it was Dick’s policy and that I could call corporate about it, to which I replied that I understood that, but that I really wasn’t concerned since I would just let the AG’s office deal with that matter, “I just wanted to know if it said so in the add”. She started to appear as if she thought I was upset (don’t know why, since I was very calm and friendly), so I reassured her that I was not upset or angry, but just wanted to know if the add stated this policy. (If she, or anyone else had been able to show me such policy within the add, then it would have been a dead issue for me, since I felt that it would have provided an exception to the law. This was the main reason I’d returned, but also wanted to give them an opportunity to make right while I was there). Her response to this was that there was a District manager there, and she would ask him if I would like. I said yes, and she went to ask.

When she returned, she told me that, “My District Manager is in a conference call, so he can’t come talk to you, but he said there is no such law, and that we aren’t to give rain checks.” When she said that part about him saying that such a law didn’t exist, I couldn’t help but laugh, and then said that, “well, that’s fine, but did you ask him where it says the policy in the add?” (I hadn’t even asked her to inquire about rain checks, but had asked her to inquire about if it was in the add.) She then said that he hadn’t commented on that, so I requested that she find out (all I wanted to know was if I had missed something in the add when I’d read it the few times I had. Some of that print is pretty small.) So, she went back again, and this time, the District Manager himself came out.

Before he even got to me, he started yelling at me in a very confrontational and rude tone, “SIR, IT’S COMPANY POLICT TO NOT GIVE RAINCHECKS ON AMMUNITION. HAVE A NICE DAY!” I responded (calmly) by saying, “you don’t have to give me an attitude, I understand Dick’s policy, I just want to know if it’s in the add.” (By this time, other customers in the areas had started to turn and watch). He then yelled (in the same abusive manner), “HAVE A NICE DAY SIR!”, and started walking away. I then asked, “Well, can you tell me if it says so in the add?”, and he again Yelled, “HAVE A NICE DAY!” without even bothering to stop and face me when he spoke to me. I then asked for corporate’s number to which he replied (over his shoulder as he was walking away), “She wrote it down for you. (He did this while briefly pointing at the counter as he was walking away from me)”. I replied, “Thank you, that was totally uncalled for.”

This whole time, when dealing with these people, I was completely calm, and tried to be as inoffensive as possible. I had no reason to get upset as I knew that the AG would take care of the matter, had I not gotten satisfaction. I even told the female manager this, so this behavior by him was completely out of line.


I did call Dick’s corporate office to complain. However, it wasn’t to complain about their rain check policy. I knew that the AG’s office would handle that, but the ordeal required a complaint lodged against the manager’s ridiculous behavior. After I relayed the ordeal to the company representative on the phone, the response was, “We’re sorry about that sir. I assure you it will be turned over to the investigative team (not really sure about the terminology she used) for review.” I was stunned. “You mean a customer calls you with a report of how he was wrongly treated by your manager, and that’s all you’ve got to say?” We went back and forth a few minutes longer, as she kept trying to tell me about Dick’s policy on rain checks for ammunition, to which I also told here that she could explain it to the AG’s reps. I even expressed dismay that she didn’t even ask for a call back number to contact me by. She responded by saying that she had it on her caller ID. I then told her to not use that number, as it was my cell phone, and I usually don’t answer it. I told her that she should make sure that my cell phone number doesn’t get into their notes, and to instead enter my home phone number (which I then gave her). After that, she continued to go on about “Dick’s policy”, and I finally realized that the initial clerk was correct. They really don’t care.

That was just before the holidays IIRC, and then, last Thursday I get a call on my cell phone. I do have someone on the other side of the state that calls me on that phone, and thinking it was they, I answered. I was quite surprised to discover that it was someone from the Dick’s corporate office asking about my “problems with getting a rain check.” Of course I had never called Dick’s corporate office with a complaint about rain checks, so I thought there must be some confusion, and told her that it wasn’t about rain checks, but the manager that I had a problem with. (Remember, I’d told the initial CS rep to not keep my cell phone number, but to instead use my home phone number). When the woman who had called me sounded confused, I asked for clarification on why she was calling. Turns out she was calling me to tell me that the ammunition that I had a rain check on was waiting for me at the store all week. She said that she had tried to call on Monday, but was unable to contact me (no wonder, since she was calling a number that she wasn’t even supposed to have). I told her that the reason she couldn’t contact me was because she was calling the wrong number, to which she stated that it was the only number she had.

By now, I’d realized that the reason for the call had nothing to do with the encounter with their rude manager, and told her that my confusion arouse out of the fact that I had never contacted Dick’s corporate about rain check’s, but rather about the manager’s poor behavior. She didn’t seem to know anything about that, and while apologizing, stated that the ammunition would be there for me until the following Monday (today). When I asked her about the problem with the manager, she responded by telling me that that issue had been “resolved”. (She must have looked it up).

I then told her that while I appreciated her efforts to get me the ammo (probably because they had the AG breathing down their neck) that I really didn’t care to go into a Dick’s Sporting Goods again. I told here that, “While I can’t say that I’ll never go into a Dick’s again, I can say that if I ever do, then it will be as a last resort”. She responded by saying that the ammo would be there for the next four or five days, and to give me her contact number if I had any other questions. Thanks.:(

I hope someone else comes along to give them competition. They often have some good deals, but their service completely lacks. I was even took a friend in there several months ago to look at shotguns, and the same clerk who told me “Dick’s doesn’t care”, told my friend essentially that Mossbergs were worthless for HD. Like I said, I hope someone else comes along.

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average_shooter
February 16, 2009, 05:50 PM
I hope someone else comes along to give them competition.

ANYbody else gets my money before Dicks does. In my limited experience here in MN Sportsman's Warehouse has the best prices and service. I've given them quite a bit of my money, and I don't generally consider myself to be "loyal" to any brand or chain.

I've done a lot of tire-kicking and fondling of various firearms there while purchasing very few. I've compared prices for a friend and they were happy to help and offer their service, they've not been afraid to say "I don't know, let me check" when they didn't know, or say "That's the guy who you want to talk to about that" and call over the resident expert if they're working that day.

Places like Gander Mountain, Bass Pro and Cabelas are other choices to look for, though they rank lower on my list than SW due to generally higher prices and lesser service (in my experience).

colemanw
February 16, 2009, 06:01 PM
These people don't care... i find it unlikely that they enjoy their jobs... they are cut off from advancement and bristle at management (all that corporate "team" crap no one believes in)

what can you expect? go find a locally owned store with a good crew and pay the little extra for ammo and have a good time in the process :)

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
February 16, 2009, 07:00 PM
In this economy these retailers need to take the best possible care of their customers.I don't know about other areas of the country but at the Home Depots in my district bad customer service is a terminable offense. As a supervisor I do my best to never say no to a customer and have gone against so called "corporate police' many times just to keep customers coming back and as far as I'm concerned I work for the customer.

dpeticca
February 16, 2009, 07:01 PM
I find my local "Dicks" to be very good. Always helpful, and the fellas behind the counter take the time to answer all my questions... even fill in a few stories here and there. Buy plenty of ammo from them too.

I think the store you had a problem with really stinks. Sorry you had to go through that. Hopefully that particular store will suffer. While the manager may not have had any discpline for his "rude" behavior, I'm sure they'll have to deal with the state attorneys general when they come to find out you were right ;-)

Put a feather in your hat, you took the high road, tried to be nice, and taught them a thing or two about the law.

Now one last thing.. which store is it? Let's hope they get no one from the high road after your bad experience there..

Average Joe
February 16, 2009, 07:05 PM
Did you ever wonder where this store got its name ? I don't go there just for that reason. To me, its just another golf store, and hopefully they will go the way of some other crappy retailers.

TexasRifleman
February 16, 2009, 07:05 PM
Now one last thing.. which store is it? Let's hope they get no one from the high road after your bad experience there..

Sounds like the one here in Arlington, TX. It's a waste of time to go in there. Crazy prices and sales people without a clue at this one here.

They bought out another chain a while back, can't remember the name now. When they did that they took out all the handguns and handgun ammo, that pretty much ended my trips there.

.cheese.
February 16, 2009, 07:11 PM
Average Joe has a point.

Did you ever wonder where this store got its name ?

I've never been in a Dick's Sporting Goods, but I've heard enough complaints online to get the idea that they're not particularly friendly.

average_shooter
February 16, 2009, 07:16 PM
They bought out another chain a while back, can't remember the name now.

Around here it used to be Galyans. I bought hiking boots and a couple pieces of climbing gear there before they got bought out.

Did you ever wonder where this store got its name ?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Dicks, not just a name, also a management style.

One of my college friends worked there for a month or so, needed the money but I guess he couldn't take it anymore and quit to work at a different shop that treats people better.

2RCO
February 16, 2009, 07:21 PM
I have a Brother in Law that worked for Dick's he actually got fired for taking the time to help customers who bought a bicycle and brought it back fix the problem. They said he took an hour to help the people and that he was stealing from the company. So it seems at Dick's you are fired for good customer service.

Karl Hungus
February 16, 2009, 07:28 PM
I honestly didn't even know that Dick's carried firearms. Guess there's a reason it's called Dick's.

I'm in agreement with the Sportsman's Warehouse guy. Of all the larger chain-type dealers, they have very cool salesmen. I've found slightly cheaper prices at times, but seriously I'd rather spend a few bucks extra and get it from some place that doesn't treat you like a tool.

heron
February 16, 2009, 07:58 PM
what can you expect? go find a locally owned store with a good crew and pay the little extra for ammo and have a good time in the process I'm with coleman. Dick's has made it abundantly clear that their attitude problem originates from the top of their organization, and they should learn the hard way not to dump on customers. I've started going to my little local gun shop for everything now. I know it may cost a tiny bit more for some things, but I figure that the smaller the organization, the more efficient it is, and I'll get better service, because they know my face there already, and they're pretty straight-up. I'm already pretty sure that their prices on guns are better than a lot of other outfits.

poor_richard
February 16, 2009, 08:37 PM
Thanks to all for your encouraging replies. In this economy these retailers need to take the best possible care of their customers.I don't know about other areas of the country but at the Home Depots in my district bad customer service is a terminable offense. As a supervisor I do my best to never say no to a customer and have gone against so called "corporate police' many times just to keep customers coming back and as far as I'm concerned I work for the customer.
The thing is, all I was asking was for them to tell me if it was in the add or not. I wasn’t even trying to argue with them about their corporate policy.
I find my local "Dicks" to be very good. Always helpful, and the fellas behind the counter take the time to answer all my questions... even fill in a few stories here and there. Buy plenty of ammo from them too.

I think the store you had a problem with really stinks. Sorry you had to go through that. Hopefully that particular store will suffer. While the manager may not have had any discpline for his "rude" behavior, I'm sure they'll have to deal with the state attorneys general when they come to find out you were right ;-)

Put a feather in your hat, you took the high road, tried to be nice, and taught them a thing or two about the law.

Now one last thing.. which store is it? Let's hope they get no one from the high road after your bad experience there..The AG’s office did take care of it. That’s why corporate called me. The sad thing is that they didn’t care about what their manager did, just getting the AG off their backs.

Oh, they will not fair well in this town for sure with that attitude. I saw a similar type of CS at Eastern Mountain Sports when I was in there with one of my friends. The manager there was totally rude to him, and when he complained to their corporate, the basically said that the manager and another employee said that it was my friend who was being rude. Totally untrue, they flat out lied. They no longer have any stores in this town. We tend to be a bit on the conservative side here.

NMBLACKGOLD
February 16, 2009, 09:13 PM
Poor Me for having to read Poor Richards's 3000 word manifesto about not being issued a silly ass raincheck........

22-rimfire
February 16, 2009, 09:21 PM
At least he called you "sir". I hate identical threads posted on multiple forums.

poor_richard
February 16, 2009, 09:31 PM
Poor Me for having to read Poor Richards's 3000 word manifesto about not being issued a silly ass raincheck........If you'd read it, then you would know that it isn't about the rain check.

MICHAEL T
February 16, 2009, 09:32 PM
I only buy a local own real gun stores screw the big corp stores Wal mart 2 times.
I pay a extra buck or 2 for a good dealer who takes care of me. Mine bought me dinner tonight Has Gander or Dicks ?

Sato Ord
February 16, 2009, 09:36 PM
I like to buy at the locally owned reloader here in Melbourne. They have their times when they are out too, but that's usually after a local gun show. Can't blame them, they really are a locally owned and operated small outfit.

Space Cost Bullets. Nice guys who are local, friendly, and know their business. Can't beat that combination unless you add the fact that they are also cheaper than buying factory loads from anybody else in town.

jbkebert
February 16, 2009, 09:37 PM
I went to dicks sporting goods in Topeka a couple weeks ago. I was looking around just killing time. The salesman ask me a couple times if he could help me. No I said just killing some time. Anyway I saw a display of ammo on a end cap near the gun counter and saw that they had .300 win mag shells in the new winchester XP3 ammo. I have wanted to give this stuff a try it works great in my .270. I opened the box to check caliber on brass (got screwed once before). To my surprise the shells that were in the box were 7mm mag remington core-loks. I motioned for the salesman and showed him what i had found. He just looks at me like whats the problem so i go on to tell him that someone took a $24.00 dollar box of shells and swapped the contents for a $50.00 box of shells. The little bastard has the gall to lean over to me and say sounds like you know a little to much about what happened here. That company can go bankrupt for all I care.

BCCL
February 16, 2009, 11:18 PM
I had a similar experience with Dick's Sporting Goods last year. They advertised some rifles on sale, and gave me a rain check when they were out when I got there.

I was told about a week and call to check to see if they were in.

1st week...."No, they didn't come in"

2nd week...."No, they didn't come in"

3rd week...."No, they didn't come in"

4th week...."No, they didn't come in"

5th week...."No, they didn't come in"

6th week...."No, they didn't come in, but we will call you when they do."

4 months later, I happen to go in again...there in the rack are 4 of the rifles.

When I pulled out of my wallet my rain check, the clerk just about choked, but I got the rifle at the sale price after discussing with the manager that there is no time limit printed on their rain check form. :)

22-rimfire
February 16, 2009, 11:38 PM
BCCL, that's funny. Dicks is very good about honoring their rain checks and coupons. Bascially the employees don't really care one way or the other.

I have often bought things at Dicks where the price on the rack or whatever was say $20. I decide to buy and go the checkout and it is priced $15 or whatever. Tis the opposite with Kmart. I hate the store near me.... item is on sale... take to check out and it rings up a higher price... "price check".... wait 10-15 minutes to find out you're right. You almost have to memorize each price prior to paying for it. Bugs me.

usmarine0352_2005
February 16, 2009, 11:59 PM
....



.

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 12:13 AM
Quite whining and grow up, "Poor Richard."

You want to use an oppressive nanny-state law to force a company to sell you ammunition at a lower price than they want to sell it for. Yes, they lured you into the store with the advertisement, but you didn't phone to see if they still had any at that price. In today's climate, a reasonable shopper would have called ahead and reserved the quantity he wanted.

Then you waste the time of God knows how many retail personnel over your desire to force them to sell you ammunition at a lower price than they want to sell it for. Then you call your state government about it, to get Dick's in trouble. Then you go back and repeatedly ask an obtuse question to which you already know the answer. Then you call your state goons back to complain about the manager's attitude, and call their corporate headquarters over your situation to try to cause further trouble.

Guess what? Thank God, your world DOESN'T CARE that you want to force someone to do something they don't want to do, and that you want to make a fuss over their refusal to take you seriously.

You wasted a lot of people's time pursuing an attempt to force somebody to do something they didn't want to do. Is this how you deal with everyone? It isn't how I have gotten anywhere in life.

poor_richard
February 17, 2009, 12:30 AM
No Duke. What happened was due to their incompetence. I knew better when I worked retail.

HeavenlySword
February 17, 2009, 12:33 AM
Duke, read it before you open your mouth.

You will see its not about the rain check, which I don't care about, but the stupid corporate system the chain has.

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 12:34 AM
Their incompetence? They got you out of their store without you going postal over your inability to force them to perform a transaction they didn't want to perform, and without giving you a raincheck. Then they actually went out of their way to find some ammunition to sell you at your preferred price. Sounds pretty competent to me.

mrsig
February 17, 2009, 12:34 AM
I am sure this thread will be locked shortly, but I do not see why people are attacking “Poor Richard.” He asked a question and was blown off by the District Manager. His post was long, but not worth of anyone’s condescension. I have been to one Dick’s a single time. The store was empty and the employees were busy talking to each other. They did not even recognize my presence. Does stating this make me a whiner too?

- Sig

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 12:37 AM
Not unless you complained to your state government about not getting enough attention in the store.

average_shooter
February 17, 2009, 12:42 AM
So Duke, on this forum are you really sure you want to be the advocate for the corporation breaking state law?

I thought one of the tenets of this board was that discussion of breaking laws was not acceptable here.

If you don't like the law you can go ahead and work to change it.

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 12:47 AM
I'm not convinced they did "break the law," and if they did, it was not a criminal violation.

jerkface11
February 17, 2009, 12:57 AM
His state requires rainchecks to be issued. Dicks policy doesn't pre-empt state law. From the threads I've seen they have a habit of advertising things as on sale then not carrying them till the sale is over.

StockKahr
February 17, 2009, 01:41 AM
Quote:
They bought out another chain a while back, can't remember the name now.

Around here it used to be Galyans. I bought hiking boots and a couple pieces of climbing gear there before they got bought out.

Yep, they bought Galyans, and turned all of the Indiana handgun-friendly Galyans stores (where I bought 2 of my handguns, BTW), into anti-handgun stores. Heck, not only do they not carry pistols or revolvers (Galyans always had a nice selection and good prices), they don't even carry holsters any more. And they carry absolutely no variety of handgun-caliber ammunition... Just 1 or 2 choices in each caliber.

I just plain don't shop there any more. It ticks me off too much. :fire:

joeg26er
February 17, 2009, 01:46 AM
bigger is not always better :cool:
for stores...LOL

At any rate- all of the folks at my local Gander mountain stores are good people and good service
the prices are not the best but can be if you are a smart shopper

eventer289
February 17, 2009, 02:15 AM
Despite what Duke of Doubt said, I definitely think you pursued the right course of action. Businesses have to comply with the law, and if Dick's wasn't, then you definitely were in the right. I'm tired of the mentality that because company X is so big, that it can do what ever it wants.

That's too bad that you had that experience at Dick's. The store near where I live has very friendly and knowledgeable gun counter clerks that have always taken great care of me. I've purchased two guns from that location for that very reason.

Jolly Rogers
February 17, 2009, 07:23 AM
Despite what Duke of Doubt said, I definitely think you pursued the right course of action. Businesses have to comply with the law, and if Dick's wasn't, then you definitely were in the right. I'm tired of the mentality that because company X is so big, that it can do what ever it wants.

That's too bad that you had that experience at Dick's. The store near where I live has very friendly and knowledgeable gun counter clerks that have always taken great care of me. I've purchased two guns from that location for that very reason.
__________________
"If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns."
And believe it they WILL have guns!


Hope you don't mind my addition.
Joe

MaterDei
February 17, 2009, 07:59 AM
Wow, what a diatribe!

After reading all this I'm convinced that Dicks is better off without your business. You need a hobby dude.

Lone_Gunman
February 17, 2009, 08:09 AM
I am totally surprised that some people are siding with Dick's on this issue. Whether you like the state law or not, it sounds like Dicks was legally required to issue the raincheck, which they did not do. Then a district manager was rude to a customer.

The issue about the ammo raincheck was only resolved because of involvement of the state attorney general. The issue with the district manager was never resolved.

22-rimfire
February 17, 2009, 08:43 AM
The district manager issue is one for Dicks to deal with, not a customer. Many customers complain. I was not there with regards to "rude" and frankly OP pushed the whole deal a bit far from my perspective from his opening summary speech. When does NO mean NO?

You get the state government or someone at the attorney general's office involved over a raincheck. I think they have far better things to do.

I got upset at JC Penney's once.... complained.... I was probably a bit pushy, but I was right..... I got that poor kid fired. I regret that.

Like I said over on THR.US, I will continue to trade at Dicks sporting goods stores.

Reading this confirms that I would never want to work retail.

Just One Shot
February 17, 2009, 08:52 AM
I am beginning to think that some people troll this board looking to attack fellow members just wanting someone to react to their negative post so they can make people as miserable as they are. :neener: So much for the high road! :cuss:

To the OP, you were right in your actions. I worked in retail for 13 yrs. and I have continued to deal with the public for the last 13 +. When I'm on the other side of the counter I expect the same courtesy that I give to my customers.

I understand (as some fail to :banghead:) that it stopped being about the rain check and started being about customer service the moment the first clerk stated that Dick's doesn't care.

22-rimfire
February 17, 2009, 09:01 AM
To the OP, you were right in your actions.

Yes, he was right. But the end does not always justify the means.

Lots of clerks say incorrect stuff at stores. Lots of posters here say incorrect "facts". Life is too short.

schnarrgj
February 17, 2009, 09:07 AM
When you are in business it is required that you obey the state laws. If you do not want to abide by the state laws, don't open. Going to the AG was a good idea. There is no excuse for rudeness in the retail or anyother business.

Robert
February 17, 2009, 09:21 AM
Yes he was so irked by this that it took months to get around to posting about it.

I worked at Dick's for almost 8 months last year, and yes it is not the greatest place on earth. The pay is crappy, for someone of my education and work history, and the management is sometimes terrible. But keep in mind that people would walk up to my counter and ask me for 50 boxes at a time of mainly the 9mm you speak of. So Dick's came up with the no rain checks on ammo policy. I highly doubt that Dick's vast legal team would ok doing something that would violate the law, at least in a manner that they could not over come... This is not the first I hate Dick's post, nor will it be that last. Knowing this you still went to Dick's and were unhappy, imagine that. And I wonder, do you know word for word the policy of where you work? I have seen the 4 four inch think binders that make up Dick's store policy, as well as other information, and am not in the least surprised that even the manager did not know it line for line. Dick's got its name from the man that started the company. He was an avid outdoors man and hunter, his son plays golf.

effengee
February 17, 2009, 09:29 AM
This is just my two cents worth, having had a few flaming trolls on my back I can say to you all that this guy did nothing wrong, nor does he need a hobby.
He's a gun nut on the high road ain't he? I think he's already got a hobby.
Too often our first reaction to a situation is to immediately form a firing line plinking order and say "I got the best gun and your gun stinks"

He stated very clearly that at no time was it his intention to start anything.
We've all had at least one gun/ammo purchase that went something along these lines... Just because it's a gun purchase some manager is gonna treat you like an infectious disease...

I've been banned from stores for a year solely because I was exercising my second amendment rights, and some I've boycotted and actively degraded to anyone who would listen, I've I told the corporate office that here in Vermont I have the right to carry and they told me they have the right to refuse service to ANYONE... so what did I do? I called a buddy of mine who used to be chief of police in my hometown and he called the manager of that one store I can't help but go into every week that starts with W and ends in mart, a guy whom he knew for years, and Voila! I was no longer banned from entering so long as I kept my firearm well concealled...
Which is what I do now...
But which sucks, because by state law I don't need a permit and I can carry openly or concealled any darn place I want!!!

:(:uhoh::confused::eek::what::mad::cuss::banghead::fire::barf:

OK I'm done now,

Eff humbly steps off the soap box and hopes that we, as gun owners, can just get along as the brothers and sisters in arms that we should be...

john1911
February 17, 2009, 09:30 AM
Poor Me for having to read Poor Richards's 3000 word manifesto about not being issued a silly ass raincheck........

Door is that way ------------>

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 09:40 AM
Certain obscure state consumer regulations in some states require merchants do a lot of things you might not guess. I remain unconvinced Dick's was in violation of any law.

Actually tipping off the state goons over a "rain check" and making a fuss over a store manager with a low tolerance threshhold for time wasters is the behavior of a gestapo informant, not someone on a high road.

How much ammunition do you expect a retail store to have on hand? A million boxes? If you want that much, order it from a wholesaler or manufacturer. Regardless, "denouncing" the store to the goons speaks volumes as to the character of the denouncer, as well as that of his supporters.

Kindrox
February 17, 2009, 09:43 AM
Duke, read it before you open your mouth.

Well this thread once again shows that half the population is below average.

I commend Richard for sticking up for himself which protects us all. Dicks knows the law and obviously figgures that as few people complain when they break it, Dicks can do what ever they want.

My wife runs a business and I help out. Sometimes we make a mistake on amounts we charge, ect. Some people check and point things out. Far from being unhappy about it, I am glad. We would be honest in business, but its those folks who keep everybody else honest.

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 09:48 AM
Kindrox: "Far from being unhappy about it, I am glad. We would be honest in business, but its those folks who keep everybody else honest."

Do you dial 911 whenever you spot a speeder or jaywalker in your neighborhood? Do you call the state police when you see real wine given in communion to underage teens? Do you report football pools and penny ante poker to the gambling control board? Denunciation and complaining to authority ("Momma! Dick won't sell me ammo for cheap!") is fun for people with nothing better to do with their time. Makes them feel important and virtuous, when what they really are is not fit for print in a family newspaper.

TexasRedneck
February 17, 2009, 09:52 AM
Duke, I think the point that you're choosing to ignore here is that the OP had the legal right to a rain check per state law. When he ran into resistance, it became a larger issue, which he chose to pursue.
Walking away meekly accepting illegal and rude behaviour only encourages more.
Rain check laws are in place to preclude the routine of "loss leader" advertising designed to get someone into a store so you can then steer them over to a higher-priced item. Legitimate "limited offer" sales will state that there are limited quantities on hand - and at that point, the law is complied with and there is nothing further to be said.
Instead, they advertised, go overwhelmed (presumedly) by the response, and ran out. Common sense (and good CR) and THE LAW would dictate that you provide a rain check. Stories such as this told on public forums are often perused by various stores/retailers to help them judge the impact of their policies - seeing strings such as this will often cause them to rethink some of them.
As to the length of the post - if it's too long, go on to the next one. Personally, I found it informative in detailing just what steps he took, and how carefully he detailed to them just what he wanted.

Master Blaster
February 17, 2009, 09:53 AM
Duke of Doubt is a District Manager for Dicks.

I learned long ago not to waste my time going into a DICKS, there are other stores with better prices and better selection. And most importantly a much better attitude than:

If we dont stock it we wont order it, if you dont like it tough.

That is Dicks Corporate policy, No customer service.

22-rimfire
February 17, 2009, 09:55 AM
I am going to assume that everything stated by the OP is correct (as in swear on the bible or whatever book you like correct).

I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect he is correct about the rain check thing and district manager should not have gotten upset. He should know better and I'm sure he does. He just lost his cool a little bit.

What is the possible result of such actions?

Dicks may no longer sell ammunition in Michigan. They dropped handguns a long time ago. Maybe they will drop rifles too? Maybe they will just drop the whole firearm department and add more space for fishing stuff, athletic shoes, or golf?

Walmart may learn about this and just drop their ammo completely. Who wins? One or two customers win and the rest loose.

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 09:57 AM
I still haven't seen a definitive answer here from the state AG, or even a legal citation, proving Dick's was in violation of any law. But let's assume for discussion that they were.

The guy who wastes his time, Dick's time, the AG's time, and now our time over a rain check is the same guy who forces us all to wait in line at the store while he counts his pennies, gets the clerk to recheck a price, and buys a dozen lottery tickets. It's the same guy who makes a fuss at the restaurant over MSG and asks for substitutions. It's the same guy who charges a pack of cigarettes on his credit card while ten people wait at the news stand behind him. It's the same guy who calls police every time the neighbor's kid climbs the fence to get his frisbee back. Whether Dick's violated some obscure consumer regulation or not, what "Poor Richard" did is called "tourist behavior" around here. And around here, those are strong words.

poor_richard
February 17, 2009, 10:02 AM
22-rimfire,

I understand your concern, but know that this is not some obscure law here in Michigan. Most (if not all) retailers around here are familiar with the retail laws placed upon the retailers regarding consumer rights. When I worked in retail, the management made sure that we knew about these things, so it's no big secret.

Fact is, most places immediately offer a rain check as soon as you ask for an out of stock ad item (and yes, that includes ammo). It wasn't uncommon where I worked to offer upgrades to keep the customer happy.

If stores like Wal Mart and Dick's get out of the firearms/ammo business, it won't be because of something like this.

rbernie
February 17, 2009, 10:05 AM
Denunciation and complaining to authority ("Momma! Dick won't sell me ammo for cheap!") is fun for people with nothing better to do with their time. Excepting that you're deliberately mischaracterizing the issue. The issue wasn't over not being able to buy the ammo - it was over the policy of no rain checks specifically for ammo.

Rain check laws are in place to preclude the routine of "loss leader" advertising designed to get someone into a store so you can then steer them over to a higher-priced item. Legitimate "limited offer" sales will state that there are limited quantities on hand - and at that point, the law is complied with and there is nothing further to be said.
Exactly so.

The only thing worse than living in a nanny state, where the state dictates how you buy and sell things, is when you live in a nanny state and the rules are arbitrarily ignored and/or capriciously enforced.

TexasRedneck
February 17, 2009, 10:08 AM
Hey Duke - you forgot one other example:

"It's the same guy that actually expects CUSTOMER SERVICE when he spends his money."

I've dealt with B2B business for the past 30+ years, and managed Service Techs over 20. If one of my guys gives the kind of responses that Dicks' folks did, he'd be looking for a new job.

The customer is the reason ANY of us has a job - and it behooves us to remember that. Can they be overdemanding? Sure - but when they are, it can usually be resolved diplomatically. To take someone to task over expecting what they are legally entitled to is just.....(ya'll fill in the blank here - ah'm sure you can come up with an appropriate one!)<G>

db_tanker
February 17, 2009, 10:09 AM
dunno where your from there, Duke. I have heard of this "tourist behavior" though. Never seen it in my neck of the woods here however.

I do know that most folks around here wouldn't stand much for that kind of customer service...or should I say lack of.

You seem to only be concentrated on one little part here...the lack of a rain-check or that particular issue. I think what abhors me is the rather uncouth mannerisms of the managers at Dicks.

Even if they opened one down here in this area of Texas...I think it wouldn't do so well. They can keep them if that is the caliber of their employees.

Also..

IBTL

D

22-rimfire
February 17, 2009, 10:12 AM
Poor Richard: I actually agree with you. I may have slanted my responses earlier to hint that I didn't. I just think that it is a mountain out of a mole hill kind of thing. And I certainly don't hope that Dicks or any other store drops selling ammunition due to the hassle factor. The hassle factor could well come with the BHO administration. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and paying attention to legislation as best I can.

Could be their the sale ad copy was incorrectly done or done for many states when they should have modified it for Michigan and perhaps some other states??

The only thing worse than living in a nanny state, where the state dictates how you buy and sell things, is when you live in a nanny state and the rules are arbitrarily ignored and/or capriciously enforced.

I agree although the reality is that rules and laws are always arbitrarily enforced. How many celebrities, or public officials or their children get off with a hand slap for a DUI and then some person who seldom drinks gets pulled over and they test slightly above the limit and have to spend time in jail, loose their license, pay attorney fees, pay a higher cost for car insurance for years, and face the full force of the letter of the law applied to them.

poor_richard
February 17, 2009, 10:13 AM
...The customer is the reason ANY of us has a job - and it behooves us to remember that. Can they be overdemanding? Sure - but when they are, it can usually be resolved diplomatically. To take someone to task over expecting what they are legally entitled to is just.....(ya'll fill in the blank here - ah'm sure you can come up with an appropriate one!)<G>It could have easily been solved by them stating if the policy was in the ad. It was their fault they didn't know their own ad (any sales clerk should).

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 10:14 AM
TexasRedneck: "The customer is the reason ANY of us has a job - and it behooves us to remember that."

And the retailer is the reason any of them have the opportunity to purchase their stuff point of sale in person -- and it behooves them to remember that.

TexasRedneck: "Can they be overdemanding? Sure - but when they are, it can usually be resolved diplomatically. To take someone to task over expecting what they are legally entitled to is just.....(ya'll fill in the blank here - ah'm sure you can come up with an appropriate one!)<G>"

... is just "tired of having his time wasted by over-demanding people with too much time on their hands."

poor_richard
February 17, 2009, 10:17 AM
22-rimfire,

I worked in retail for a big box store for over four years. Our ads had exceptions in the fine print limiting certain things to certain states.

As retailer employees, we were very well informed about these things.

Maybe in your neck of the woods it is, " a mountain out of a mole hill", but around here its a pretty big deal. At least, it was when I was in the business.

MAKster
February 17, 2009, 10:23 AM
Asking for a raincheck on Remington ammo at Dicks is not worth the effort. The Remington UMC ammo is on sale almost every week. In fact the "sale" price is basically the regular price.

22-rimfire
February 17, 2009, 10:40 AM
I think I need to get a rain check on the Federal 714 22 ammo at Dicks. :)

As far as hills go, I guess it depends on how you feel about the hill. Clearly the person who spilled coffee on themselves at McDonalds and got millions made a big mountain out of the issue. But I like my coffee very hot and if I am dumb enough to spill it on myself, I deserve to get burnt.

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 10:45 AM
22-rimfire: "Clearly the person who spilled coffee on themselves at McDonalds and got millions made a big mountain out of the issue. But I like my coffee very hot and if I am dumb enough to spill it on myself, I deserve to get burnt."

Here, I'm going to take the other side. I have to discuss that case in casual conversation a lot, because of what I do. I've never failed to change the mind of the other person, once I explain exactly what happened and what McDonald's did.

The woman suffered second and third degree burns to her genitalia. This wasn't some minor scalding. All she originally sought was reimbursal of her medical expenses. McDonald's told her to pound sand, and engaged in abusive and intrusive discovery and litigation tactics against her, including demanding psychological evaluations, medical examinations, repeated gynocological examinations, et cetera. The jury was disgusted with McDonald's tactics, and awarded a huge sum to the plaintiff in order to send a message to large corporations about such obnoxious behavior. That amount was greatly reduced by the reviewing judge.

22-rimfire
February 17, 2009, 10:49 AM
Yep, see what happens when lawyers get involved and everyone gets pushy. Common sense and all civility goes out the window and it is all about $.

Unfortunately, I sometimes cradle my coffee in the secret spot between my legs in a car and sometimes it hurts. :)

In the Dicks case, Dicks was actually encouraging buying in case lots by pricing it lower per box by the case. They must have had a lot in stock. Dicks saw that they were technically in the wrong and shipped ammo to satisfy this customer. Of course, it was beyond satisfaction at that point, but the corporate folks saw the light and tried to make amends.

NMBLACKGOLD
February 17, 2009, 11:01 AM
Asking for a raincheck on Remington ammo at Dicks is not worth the effort. The Remington UMC ammo is on sale almost every week. In fact the "sale" price is basically the regular price.

Well said, maybe this well end this whole deal...

heron
February 17, 2009, 11:06 AM
The guy who wastes his time, Dick's time, the AG's time, and now our time over a rain check is the same guy who forces us all to wait in line at the store while he counts his pennies, gets the clerk to recheck a price, and buys a dozen lottery tickets. It's the same guy who makes a fuss at the restaurant over MSG and asks for substitutions. It's the same guy who charges a pack of cigarettes on his credit card while ten people wait at the news stand behind him. It's the same guy who calls police every time the neighbor's kid climbs the fence to get his frisbee back.Duke, last I knew, all this "tourist behavior" was perfectly legal. Maybe a bit aggravating, but I'd guess almost never intentionally so, and that's why we should all practice patience. I try to be considerate of other customers and not to hold up checkout lines, but not everyone is like that.

I'm with the OP all the way on this. He was especially careful to recheck everything, and didn't go ballistic. He was right, and made sure he was right at every step of the process. Dick's was wrong, and made it plain that they didn't care and didn't want to be bothered.

Personally, I'll take "tourist behavior" any day over being treated like a pest by the store's employees.

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 11:13 AM
heron: "Duke, last I knew, all this "tourist behavior" was perfectly legal. Maybe a bit aggravating, but I'd guess almost never intentionally so, and that's why we should all practice patience."

Quite right. My point is that what is legal is not necessarily what is appropriate. "Standing on your rights" is what gets lawyers blamed for their clients' outrages. After years of being an agreeable guy, I've taken lately to refusing to do a lot of things my clients want me to do, and throwing them out of my office if they complain. My professional standing has been enhanced, and business is brisk. The customer is NOT always right. In fact, he is usually wrong. If he knew so much, he wouldn't have to hire you in the first place.

jerkface11
February 17, 2009, 11:17 AM
Duke refuses to believe that it's the law that that rainchecks be provided. As usual he's obtuse for no known reason. Does THR have an ignore feature? I sure can't seem to find one.

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 11:21 AM
jerkface11: "Duke refuses to believe that it's the law that that rainchecks be provided. As usual he's obtuse for no known reason."

I don't "refuse to believe"; I say I'm unconvinced as I've seen no AG statement, statute or regulation posted here, and am skeptical by nature. But as I stated above, I'm willing to assume for discussion that Dick's violated an obscure consumer regulation. My point is that life is too short to spend several days chasing down a "rain check" and trying to make life difficult for people over it. That's my known reason.

poor_richard
February 17, 2009, 11:26 AM
Duke,

I really don't care to debate you on this since it really doesn't matter to me what you think about the topic. I just want to add a little food for thought.

Do you think there might be some parallel between some of what you accuse me of having done, and what you are doing?

rbernie
February 17, 2009, 11:29 AM
Does THR have an ignore feature? I sure can't seem to find one.
Yes, it does. PM sent with instructions.

jerkface11
February 17, 2009, 11:29 AM
Duke you have google at your fingertips. Look it up or quit whining about it.

E.T.A. thanks rbernie you're now my favorite mod

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 11:31 AM
poor richard: "I really don't care to debate you on this since it really doesn't matter to me what you think about the topic. I just want to add a little food for thought."

And yet you clearly do care, because you continue to debate:

poor richard: "Do you think there might be some parallel between some of what you accuse me of having done, and what you are doing?"

No.

Duke of Doubt
February 17, 2009, 11:32 AM
jerkface11: "Duke you have google at your fingertips. Look it up or quit whining about it."

I'm not going to do your legal research for you, for free. Besides, as I've stated twice I'm willing to assume for discussion that Dick's IS in violation of some obscure consumer regulation.

rbernie
February 17, 2009, 11:38 AM
Closed due to useless bickering.

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