Why are Russian Nagants so damn cheap?


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McGavin
February 16, 2009, 06:37 PM
Are Nagants good, reliable guns? If so then why so cheap? Is it because the Russians too many and they have a fatty surplus of them?

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spyder1911
February 16, 2009, 06:40 PM
There were ~37 million of these made. Russia, and former Soviet countries, don't use them any more.

So high supply keeps the price pretty low.

TexasRifleman
February 16, 2009, 06:40 PM
Sooooo many of them made.

We're talking incredible amounts. I read somewhere like 40 million were made over the years including the variants.

WardenWolf
February 16, 2009, 06:41 PM
Nagant revolver or Mosin Nagant? Well, both are cheap. Because the Russians made millions of them before and during World War II. The Russian Army was second in manpower only to China, and they were almost all armed with the Mosin Nagant.

McGavin
February 16, 2009, 06:43 PM
Are they good, accurate rifles?

Tommygunn
February 16, 2009, 06:43 PM
They're not particularly powerful guns, but they seem to work well, and be fairly reliable.
I bought one in 2000 for about $150.00 and it works well. The ammo for it is expensive. If you can get the .32ACP cylinder for it you can use that ammo and it won't cost so much.
I think the Russians sent quite a number of them over here dirt cheap which means they don't cost too much.
They're interesting guns with a unusual mechanism & round that seals the chamber so you don't lose too much velocity. The downside is the rounds are not powerful in the first place.
I would not consider one for self defense purposes if that's what you're thinking, but just for historical interest or plinking they are very good.

McGavin
February 16, 2009, 06:47 PM
Yeh that's what i'm looking for is a good, reliable rifle for self defense

JImbothefiveth
February 16, 2009, 06:47 PM
I think he's referring to the rifle.

I wouldn't reccomend the Mosin-Nagant for self-defense, because it's bolt action and fires a cartridge that is very loud and likely to go through your target and hit your neighbor's house. I would reccomend a shotgun for self-defense instead, or at least a different rifle.

Gottahaveone
February 16, 2009, 06:53 PM
They're not particularly powerful guns,
Well, by *that* criteria neither is the .30-06, the .308Win, the .303 British, the 8mm Mauser, and on and on. The ammo can still be had for ~$75 per 440rnd tin so that's not too bad. As for the cheapness of the rifles, that is fast becoming a thing of the past. I thought the local shop owner had lost his mind when he listed a few M44's at $349. Then I saw the 91/30's at the gun show last weekend for $239. Glad I bought my 1/2 dozen for ~$80ea......

McGavin
February 16, 2009, 06:55 PM
well i have a shotgun but i want a rifle, also to just go out shooting and possibly hunting after hunters safety

average_shooter
February 16, 2009, 06:58 PM
They're not particularly powerful guns,
Well, by *that* criteria neither is the .30-06, the .308Win, the .303 British, the 8mm Mauser, and on and on.

LOL, Tommygun is talking about the revolvers and Gottahaveone is talking about the rifles.

To the OP, McGavin, you should realize that Nagant as a company produced various firearms. It was not clear in your original post whether you were referring to Nagant rifles or Nagant revolvers.

Humorous results, though.

McGavin
February 16, 2009, 07:00 PM
I was referring to their rifles

JImbothefiveth
February 16, 2009, 07:01 PM
If it's a self-defense rifle, something in .7.62x39 or .223 might be a better choice

Kurt S.
February 16, 2009, 07:03 PM
Are the M-N rifles good? Some of them; at the prices they go for you just get 3 or 4 of them and pick the best. Are they reliable? If the ammunition is even close to fair, they go bang every time you pull the trigger. Getting the empty out of the chamber can be another story. And as you surmised and others have stated, the Russians and others produced several dozen boatloads of them over the early-middle years of the 20th century.

For defensive use: get the M44 carbine with bayonet and use late model brass case military surplus like Hungarian. If you don't hit them with the round, you can stick them with the integral folding bayonet. At close range you'll set their hair and clothes on fire with the muzzle flash.

Big Bill
February 16, 2009, 07:22 PM
They're not particularly powerful guns, but they seem to work well, and be fairly reliable.Why do you say they're not powerful? They're more powerful than an SKS.

Carl N. Brown
February 16, 2009, 07:33 PM
Millions of the Mosin Nagant rifle were made by and for Russia 1891 thru 1945 then they were replaced by the SKS and AK, making them surplus. Around the time of WWI, Mosin rifles were used by the US Army as training rifles and were sold off as surplus so there was a built in interest in the Mosin Nagant going back to one's great grandfather's day. Huge supply, steady demand equal low price. Econ 101.

Mosin Nagant Rifle 7.62x54Rmm compares well to .308 and .30-06.

Nagant revolver 7.62mm compares to the .32 S&W Long.

Mosin rifle very strong. Nagant revolver kinda weak to those weaned on .45ACP and .357Mag.

Mosin designed the rifle. Nagant designed the magazine system for the Mosin rifle, plus Nagant designed the revolver.

elmerfudd
February 16, 2009, 07:49 PM
They're a good deal for the price if you like shooting old military rifles. A decent one would also make a fine hunting rifle within 200 yards or so. Past that I would use something else since mounting optics on an MN is a pain in the butt.

For defense? Hell no. They were seriously outclassed back in WW2 and they haven't become any less obsolete since then.

yongxingfreesty
February 16, 2009, 07:52 PM
i keep telling myself to buy one, but i cant see myself collecting that. if i did, I would have to add more old bolt action rifles to that category of my collection.

and plus, anti gunners arent after those so I can always get them later.

cbrgator
February 16, 2009, 07:55 PM
McGavin, the Mosin is great for hitting the range, adequate for hunting albeit not at huge distances, but not for home defense. The last thing you want for HD is a 4' long bolt action.

Bill B.
February 16, 2009, 08:12 PM
Are they good, accurate rifles?

That they are! The Mosin is an excellent military bolt action rifle! I guess that I would take the Enfield first, the Mauser second the 03 Springfield third and the Mosin fourth in my order of preference.

SATX man
February 16, 2009, 08:17 PM
How powerful is the cartridge? Supposedly a co-worker shot one through a bullet proof plate.

Gottahaveone
February 16, 2009, 08:20 PM
LOL, Tommygun is talking about the revolvers and Gottahaveone is talking about the rifles.

Oops :o
I should have caught that. I will admit to reading exactly one line of the post before replying. Sorry about that.....

BlackHand1917
February 16, 2009, 09:24 PM
The very fact that the Russians kept so many of them around for so long may have its origins in the terrible rifle shortages they had in World War One and to a more limited extent in World War Two. In the First World War, standard practice was to issue rifles to about 75% of the infantrymen, the other 25% were told to take their rifles from the fallen. My guess is that they already have millions of AKM's in storage now that they use the AK-74 and that new, rather odd, AN-94 rifle with the moving barrel they have recently adopted.

cbrgator
February 16, 2009, 09:27 PM
How powerful is the cartridge? Supposedly a co-worker shot one through a bullet proof plate.

It's similar in power to cartridges similar in size like 308 and 30-06... just for a relative idea.

351 WINCHESTER
February 16, 2009, 10:12 PM
I'd like to know what the Russians did with all the .351 and .401 Winchesters we sold them. I know they didn't scrap them or dump them in the ocean.

Beagle-zebub
February 16, 2009, 11:30 PM
As to using a Mosin Nagant for self-defense, they are at least formidable hand-to-hand weapons, between their skewer bayonets and small steel buttplates; add in the intimidating sight of a gun with a foot-long sticker on the end, and you're at least doing a lot better than you would be with just bare knuckles.

MD_Willington
February 16, 2009, 11:44 PM
The revolver is a pussy cat to shoot, hardly any recoil.

The rifle is a thumper... I like it !

SlamFire1
February 17, 2009, 12:05 AM
Obsolete surplus military arms are hardly worth more than their scrap value, unless they can be sold to the US.

Most nations do not allow their citizens to own military weapons. Even ours will not allow importation of many types; you canít bring a full auto machine gun in and sell it to US civilians.

So lets say you have this huge inventory of obsolete bolt rifles. Who is going to buy them when you can purchase obsolete G3ís, AK47ís for less than $10.00? (I made an estimate of $10.00. I do know that in the 80ís the Army was selling refurbished, serviceable M1911ís for less than $5.00 a pistol, to foreign governments.)

When the Democrats block the importation of obsolete Nagants, the price on the world market will drop even more.

But prices will rise for what is in country , until such day when the gun banners confiscate everything.

Marcus5aurelius
February 17, 2009, 12:27 AM
7.62X54R is a big round...

nathan
February 17, 2009, 01:06 AM
Its a powerful round. still used by many guerillas out there.

gga357
February 17, 2009, 01:14 AM
Sure is better than a sharp stick.

WardenWolf
February 17, 2009, 01:31 AM
Sure is better than a sharp stick.

An M91/30 with a bayonet IS a sharp stick. . .

jc650
February 17, 2009, 02:28 AM
Guess I did pretty good I got a 91/30 last month fpr $89. They are a blast to shoot...Pun intended.

Ignition Override
February 17, 2009, 02:32 AM
SATX:
a friend and I were shooting several rifles and we set up a very large, depleted oxygen tank. It stood about 4 1/2 feet tall. Not a 'bottle', a tank.

His SVT-40 (x54R) with regular tips went all the way through both sides.
My MN 44 with yellow-tip steel core bullets exited with a hole about twice the diameter of the entry.

SlamFire1: Sure, anything can appear possible with our wonderful new govt. "leadership" as for confiscation, but some factors appear to make it doubtful, though I could be wrong.
Not only would huge numbers of law enforcement people (at enormous cost) need to take critical time away from pursuing known criminals, but budgets now are getting so hammered by the financial crisis that we will be lucky if some cities do not layoff some police staff-as crime gets worse.....Some states don't even know how they will fund state employee retirees' medical costs.

Never mind **********-really bad (to paraphrase a line in the movie "Bladerunner"), and this is just The Beginning.
The state Reps were locked in the capitol building all night long, forced by Herr Schwarzenegger to negotiate cost cuts due to the really nasty budget default. "Sie mussen verhandeln!"
And the Mexican drug gangs are now operating hit men north of the Texas border, causing carnage inside the Lone Star State. This might involve not only the FBI but various other agencies, taking more time away from normal patrols and investigations. And this is just part of one border state. Citizens will demand that more criminals be caught. If I lived near that border I would keep a handgun or Mini 14/30 in my car.

Feel free to contradict these comments, but it seems that the far-left Lunatics have got what they want for a while.

expvideo
February 17, 2009, 02:35 AM
If I could only have one rifle, it would be a Mosin Nagant. They are the single most reliable weapon platform ever contrived by man, with a round powerful enough to put down any creature in the western hemisphere, and available, cheap ammo, and a good specimen can be had for under $100.

I have an AR-15 and an AK, and if I had to choose one gun to carry into the wilderness and never come back, it would still be the Mosin Nagant. It is a man's rifle, and the only rifle you'll ever need.

xmenm05
February 17, 2009, 06:14 AM
The 7,62*54R Are even stronger than ordinary 308 - if you take those from S&B from Czech rep.
http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/rifle-ammunition.php?product=12&view=custom

So I definitely would not say it is weak. It depends how strong you want them to be ... . In Finland (Suomi) they still use this cartrige to hunt big game http://www.lapua.com/index.php?id=871

CajunBass
February 17, 2009, 07:40 AM
Shucks. You think the Russian ones are cheap? The Russian ones are expensive. ;)

You ain't seen a Chinese one yet. :D Who knows how many millions of these THEY made.

$35.00 +16.00 shipping...$51.00 delivered to the door. You don't find rifles much cheaper than that.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/CajunBass/T534.jpg

KSCCHTrainer
February 17, 2009, 09:45 AM
An M91/30 with a bayonet IS a sharp stick. . .

And goes !BANG! to boot :evil:

An M44 with the bayonet extended is a flamethrower that also goes !BANG! and is a SHORT sharp stick! :neener:

Pulse
February 17, 2009, 09:48 AM
anyone wants to guess how mutch a Mosin (or any other cheap surplus rifle) would costs if someone would start building them from scratch again with todays equipment?

same quality and materials uses as in the old days, so no fiberglass or poly stocks allowed?

BobOfTheFuture
February 17, 2009, 09:49 AM
Its funny, Mosin designed the rifle, Nagant the loading mechanisim, and Nagants brother, designed the pistol.

Going by 7.62x54r.com, the round falls between the 30-06 and the .308 in power.

As for accuracy, with some mild massaging- the "3 point touch" bedding system they used to do in the field during the war and I have fired 5 rd groups sub moa when i was trying to. Point is, the limiting factor will be you, not the rifle.

that, and its awesome.

LoneCoon
February 17, 2009, 09:50 AM
You could use it for home defense against mounted cavalry with how big that bayonet is.

nathan
February 17, 2009, 11:29 AM
One thing is for sure, you dont want to be clubbed by one. THe butt end is plated steel. That along with a hardwood stock can kill if shove comes to shove CQB. The Russians knows best in close quarter combat.

AN advancing army armed with M 44s is a sight to behold . These things firing in unison is like artillery multiplied in earsplitting sound volume. That alone played a psychological effect to scare the enemy.

Franco2shoot
February 17, 2009, 11:31 AM
With mine I can keep shots within an inch of each other at 100 yards. But for home defense in a narrow hall...? I guess the pig sticker would keep an intruder at bay... It is a big hunk of wood, better than a baseball bat, and when fired the copper clad bullet is gonna explode the guts of whatever it hits... tested against 1/2 steel plates, it goes clean through at 75 yards.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=82719&d=1218126768

I love mine, wouldn't hesitate to use it to hunt anything in North America, and it is intimidating.


KKKKFL

phoglund
February 17, 2009, 12:31 PM
Nice looking weapon there Franco. Sounds like you have a shooter! I like them as well and for the price I think everybody should have at least one. (I have two M38, one M44, and one 91/30)

If a bolt action is the gun you are going to use for self defense it would be hard to go wrong with the M44 with its small size, sturdy build and zombie sticker on the end!

You don't have to be careful with them either. Its best to treat all firearms nicely of course but if you don't, the Moisin Nagant series of rifles can take a lot of abuse and keep banging along. (Note: banging=shooting and/or clubing) :D

leadcounsel
February 17, 2009, 01:49 PM
It's an excellent value, probably the best out there - for a working piece of WWII history that is also a functioning firearm. The 7.62x54r is a very powerful round, akin to the .3006. It is the sniper round fired in the Dragunov. We captured a lot of currently in-use MNs in Iraq by the insurgents.

As others said, tens of millions were manufactured over a few decades before and during WWII.

Buy up as many as you can because they are useful and will never decrease in value. I've already started seeing the market dry up of MNs, so the time to act is now.

n00b
February 17, 2009, 02:35 PM
Franco,
The Scope... How is it mounted? Can you give product info and instructions on how to do that?

Anyone,

Best source for 91/30's?

briang2ad
February 17, 2009, 09:41 PM
BAck in the day, the Finn's were $50-85 OTD. They were considered ugly, etc., and other things were much cooler. Back then a decent 98K was $350-450 (and Glocks were all $350-400). Now, Finns are over $300 easy. I will admit, Finns are more interesting because they are more accurate. But, dry up the Russians and their price will double.

zoom6zoom
February 17, 2009, 11:44 PM
Cajun, is that a current deal? Need to know where!

hadmanysons
February 18, 2009, 03:12 AM
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinIDII.htm

I'll just leave that here...

betteryouthanme
February 18, 2009, 04:20 AM
so can anybody recommend a gunsmith in central texas who can bend the bolt so i can put a scope on mine?

CajunBass
February 18, 2009, 07:03 AM
Cajun, is that a current deal? Need to know where!

Zoom, I got them from Omega Arms (or something like that) out of Arizona, but it's been a couple, three years ago. They were a hot item here on THR for a while, there is a long thread about them that you might can find with a search. (They're a Type 53, Mosin-Nagant.) I would imagine they were all sold long ago though.

The story was they were put in a storage container and more or less forgotten for about twenty years. When discovered they were ROUGH, and I mean ROUGH. The cosmoline had mixed with dust and baked in the desert heat to form a "crud" that, then baked solid. I cleaned mine up with dawn dishwashing soap and hot water. There was almost no finish left on them. The bores were filthy. I scrubbed them up with Dawn dishwashing soap and hot water, and almost all the finish came off, so I put some cold blue and Birchwood Casey stock finish on them and they looked better. Not much, but better. :D

Here's what they looked like "out of the box."

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/CajunBass/ChineseT53s006.jpg

After some cleaning:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/CajunBass/ChineseT53s001.jpg

I might have to get some ammo for them one of these days and shoot them.

alemonkey
February 18, 2009, 01:42 PM
so can anybody recommend a gunsmith in central texas who can bend the bolt so i can put a scope on mine?

Just send your bolt to the Boltman. He does great work:

http://www.angelfire.com/gundam/boltman/bolt_work/

He bent one of my bolts into his ATI style, and it looks like it came from the factory that way.

zoom6zoom
February 18, 2009, 05:57 PM
Zoom, I got them from Omega Arms (or something like that) out of Arizona, but it's been a couple, three years ago.OK, I remember that one. Was thinking (and hoping) it was a current find!

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