[Lightsped]

What exactly is that double barreled gun that Desperado uses? Is it some made for Hollywood fake movie prop, or a real gun?

[Abominable No-Man]

Howdah pistol. Used in India way back in the Victorian era, I believe it was a modified double-rifle action chambered for the .577 Snider and similar cartridges. ORIGINALLY meant as a last-ditch thing to get rid of tigers that would drop out of the trees onto the elephants used for transportation, which is where the pistol gets it's name BTW, because those hut-looking things that they rode in (on the back of the elephants) were called "howdahs".

ANM

[Bigjake]

i belive it was firing 12 gauge rnds though....

[Black Snowman]

I haven't seen the movie but my local friends at Denny's guns are still cranking out something similar (NFA of course) http://www.dennysguns.com/denny/burglar.html

[Kevlarman]

I haven't seen the movie but my local friends at Denny's guns are still cranking out something similar (NFA of course) http:// www.dennysguns.com/denny/burglar.html

Haha, Skunk might like that website; there's a picture of an asian woman in bed with one of those things!

[Lightsped]

That Auto & Burglar gun is NFA? I didn't see any notice of it being NFA. If it isn't NFA, I think I might go ahead and get the basic model just for fun.

[BluesBear]

The Auto & Burglar gun is classified as an AOW (Any Other Weapon).

The tax stamp for an AOW is only $5 but you still have to ring the bells, blow the whistles and jump through the hoops just like for a MG.

[Black Snowman]

Thanks for the clerification BluesBear. I didn't even know there was such a thing! I love this board (mops up a tear).

[Kharn]

Just a quick note: his name is El Mariachi, not Desperado.

Kharn

[Zach S]

I thought Bucho called him "Manito" or something like that.

Anyway, I just thought it was a sawed-off.

[Kharn]

Zach S:
Was it 'Hermanito'? I'm pretty sure that means 'Little Brother' if I'm remembering my high school Spanish correctly (the two were brothers, IIRC).

Kharn

[Zach S]

Might have been, I slept through spanish in HS and dont catch things that others do.

And your moemory is correct, they were brothers.

[Tamara]

Haha, Skunk might like that website; there's a picture of an asian woman in bed with one of those things!

Probl'y not; after all, the gun does have a plain brown wood stock and is blued, rather than parkerized or tefloned... Plus, there's not a scrap of carbon fiber in sight, and that's not a Royal Robbins Tactical Bra.

Definitely not Skunk material. ;)

[Mark Tyson]

Yowza! What a wicked looking weapon! I prefer the evil black guns too, but who could resist something like THAT? Sweetness.

[Keith]

'Splain to me why that would be AOW?

If it's built as a handgun from the git-go, wouldn't it just be a handgun? There are some other handguns on the market that shoot shot shells.

And does anybody know what that thing costs?

Keith

[Lightsped]

If I recall correctly, the price is $850 for the basic model. The fancy model with engraving is over $1,000.

If this is not a NFA or AOW, I will more than likely be purchasing one in the future just for fun.

[Keith]

Yeah, I'd like to have one myself. The only thing that bugs me is the grip - it looks like it would be hard to control recoil with that shape.

Keith

[Daniel T]

Wouldn't they just have to rifle the barrel a tiny bit to make it non-NFA?

[Okiecruffler]

And they said his name was "El, just El", hilarious movie, 10 times as crazy as Desperado. As for the gun, looks like it would about have to be an AOW unless it's rifled, and where's the fun in that? I heard tale of a young man with more guts than sense who took an old 12ga single shot, cut the barrel back to 6 inches, fashioned the stock into a pistol grip, and took it out to the field with some friends for some fun. And fun was had by all, all who watched the poor young man shoot the thing. Perhaps, even if macho, OO buck and a one handed grip were not a good combo. Rumor has it that said gun can be found at the bottom of a farm pond and that a certain young man still bears the scar where the hammer bit into his hand. That's the way I hear it anyway.

[BluesBear]

'Splain to me why that would be AOW?

Because it is a smoothbored weapon with a barrel length of less than 18".
Doesn't matter how it was originally made.
At one time S&W made a 3rd Model Hand Ejector in 44-40 smoothbore. These were classified as an AOW after the NFA of 1934.

Shallow rifiling has been tried and was ruled by the AFT as not good enough and if you rifled it deep enough for them to classify it as a pistol it would throw shot all over the place. Those double barrelled .410 derringers made by Leinad can't hit the side of a barn.

As I understand it the only reason Thompson-Center can make the .45 Colt/.410 barrel with the screw in choke tube for the Contender is because it's chambered for a commonly available metallic cartridge and the "choke" is removable. For many years T-C stopped making that barrel with the .410 legnth chamber even though they kept the choke.

[semf]

Just a quick note: his name is El Mariachi, not Desperado.

El Mariachi means either the musician or the guitar player, I'm not sure which. It was is the name of the original, and horrible, Mexican version of the movie ,but not the protagonist's name.

How 'bout the crotch canon, that was also used in Dusk till Dawn.

[Zach S]

It wasnt the mexican version of the movie, Desperado was the sequal to it.

[Black92LX]

The tax stamp for an AOW is only $5 but you still have to ring the bells, blow the whistles and jump through the hoops just like for a MG.

i thought it was a $200 tax for a new gun with less than an 18'' barrell and $5 if you wanted to saw off a legal gun. or at least that's what i was told when i wanted to order a FABARMS FP6 entry gun. but if this is not the case well i need to find out. i really need a home defense gun.

[Bigjake]

so what would happen if you put shot in a rifled barrel? i'm assuming nothing since they make shotshells for reguar guns.. what about like the rifling on a rifled slug barrel on a standard shotgun?? would it puke on the wadding or function normaly?

[BluesBear]

There is a $200 federal excise tax to "manufacture" a shotgun with less than a 18" barrel or a rifle with a less than 16" barrel. There is only a $5 tax to transfer it. (Shortening the barrel on an existing weapon is considered manufacturing.)



As for shooting shot in a rifled barrel; while the rifling spin is great for a solid projectile, the gyroscopic spin adds stability, it is terrible for multiple smaller projectiles. The centrifugal force cause the shot column to disperse rather rapidly. You can shoot shot in a rifled shotgun barrel, no danger at all, but since there is no choke to help tighten the pattern AND there is rifling to further dispurse it, you won't hit much except by accident.

[Keith]

I don't think the rifling would matter much at the ranges you'd shoot a shotgun with a barrel that short!

Keith

[Black92LX]

There is a $200 federal excise tax to "manufacture" a shotgun with less than a 18" barrel or a rifle with a less than 16" barrel. There is only a $5 tax to transfer it. (Shortening the barrel on an existing weapon is considered manufacturing.)

so if i were to buy it new i would have to pay the $200, but used from someone else only $5?? too many stupid little regulations.

[BluesBear]

so if i were to buy it new i would have to pay the $200, but used from someone else only $5??

No! The manufacturer pays the Federal Excise Tax at the time of manufacture. It is a one time only tax, but the cost would surely be passed along to you with the other production costs. You will still have to pay the $5 transfer tax no matter what. Just as any person you would sell it to would have to pay the transfer tax also.

All firearms manufactures have to pay a Federal Excise Tax on every firearm produced. Which is why it is legal for you to convert a black powder firearm to shoot modern metallic cartridges but you can't legally sell it because you haven't paid the excise tax on it as the manufacturer.

By the same example you can produce Alcohol for your own consumption, but you can't sell it. That's what they used to bust moonshiners over, "the sale of untaxed liquors".

You can't sell reloaded ammunition either.
Ammunition manufactures have to pay a Federal Excise Tax on every single round of ammunition they produce for sale. Even commercial reloaders (who have to have the same type 6 manufacturers license) have to pay the tax as well. EXCEPT in cases where they use the SAME empty casings provided to them by the purchaser. They still need a license but reloading "customer supplied casings" is specifically tax exempt.

[Lightsped]

I have done some research on acquiring a Auto & Burglar gun. From what I can come up with, I must either get a chief LEO to sign off on the gun, or form a corporation which will allow me to register the gun to my corporation.

Are there any other ways to get this gun?

[Kharn]

BluesBear:
The tax in question is the National Firearms Act tax, which applies to the following catagories of firearms: Short barreled shotgun (SBS), Short Barreled rifle (SBR), machine gun (MG), Any Other Weapon (AOW, basically anything that doesnt look like a normal gun, and pistols with two vertical grips) and Destructive Devices (grenades, bombs, cannon, etc).

The NFA requires the purchase of a $200 tax stamp to make one of the above items, and the purchase of a $200 tax stamp to transfer one of the above items to another person (only a $5 tax stamp is required for an AOW transfer). Or you can pay a $1000 tax and be a tax-exempt Special Occupational Tax payer (abreviated as SOT; the tax is reduced to $500/yr if you do less than like $500k in business(might be $250k in business, been a while since I looked at it)), if you're an FFL that regularly deals in NFA firearms.

The FET is a seperate issue from the NFA tax, and as you said, its passed down to the consumer.

There is *no* provision for a non-07 FFL (manufacturer) to be able to pay the federal excise tax. The FET only has to be paid when the (licensed) manufacturer sells the firearm for the first time. Home firearm builders (who manufacture their own firearms without intending to resell them) can sell their guns without paying the FET, but if they sell their produced firearms too quickly after making them, or they sell too many, they'd be talking to the ATF about being involved in the business of selling firearms without a license.

On the alcohol issue, its legal to *ferment* your own alcoholic beverages (and sell something like 50 gallons of wine and 200 gallons of beer per year before you need a license, or the numbers might be reversed, I forget exactly), but if you distill a single *DROP* of alcohol without paying the associated taxes you're going to jail. Moonshiners distill their alcohol without paying the tax, thats what they go to jail for.

Kharn

[Bigjake]

so in theory could i take a stoger coach gun or like side by side, lop the barrel off short and get a special grip like that and have no worrys, as long as i didn't sell it?? :scrutiny:

[Kharn]

If the barrels are >18" and the overall length of the gun is >26", you wouldnt have to worry, but if either one of those is less than that number, you need to buy a $200 tax stamp before you cut the parts off the shotgun shotgun, or else you'd be in possession of an untaxed/unregistered SBS (10 years in federal prison, something like $250k fine, etc etc).

Kharn

[BluesBear]

Yeppers to what Kharn said.

Lightsped, to get a Tax Stamp for any MG or AOW you need the permission of the Chief LEO in your area. So would the corporation. The corporation would be the owner and liable for anything done with the weapon.



And not to open a new can of worms here, but, if you recall, that little melee back on Ruby Ridge all started over the possibility that someone had manufactured an untaxed, less than 18" barreled shotgun.

[McCoy]

Lightsped said

Are there any other ways to get this gun?


Well sure ! move to Canada ! :D

Easier for the paperwork , but you have to find one first .

But 14" Fabarm pump are easier to get up here .

[deleteall]

On the rifling issue, another choice would be a straight finned choke that stops that spinning. That's what the BFR .410 uses, and it works.

[ctdonath]

so what would happen if you put shot in a rifled barrel?

The shot spreads faster. I tried it on a "rifled shotgun" and the pattern spread about twice as fast as normal.

[AJ Dual]

On the rifling issue, another choice would be a straight finned choke that stops that spinning. That's what the BFR .410 uses, and it works.

That was another way around the AOW category, but it only works for .410 because those are also chambered for .45LC.

If you tried to make a 20, 16, or 12ga pistol with straight rifling, the ATF would want to know what the original chambering was, and since the non-existant bullet would be over .50 caliber, it would be designated a "destructie device" and be subject to the NFA again.

[George Hill]

Cutdown shotguns like this used to be called "Jaguars" for some reason. I don't remember where I heard that. Anyways...
I had to buy the Once upon a time in Mexico DVD. Great DVD by the way. The special features are awesome... Including the tours of Troublemaker Studios and the 10 Minute Film School and the 10 Minute Cooking school. THat was the best.
The director shows you how to make Pibil so good that you might get wacked for just making it...
I made it last night... It's that good. I didn't add the tequila - because well... being Mormon, let's just say I was all out of it. But it still turned out very very good. I could see where "Sands" was coming from when he had to shoot the cook.

[iwjev]

I found this tread so I thought I would post my question here. I just hope someone reads my post so I can get an answer :-) .

In the movie he has 2 like gun that pop out of his sleeves. What are they?

[azrael]

those were in the 2nd one (Desperado)...They were Ruger P90's


Kinda makes me jealous...I have been wanting a "sleeve rig" for years:D

Mine would be for a kel-tec P-32 or Naa .32:cool:
That is if I can ever find someone that makes them

[Slimjim]

What would you need to do if you were to build a 410 upper for a AR-10 then?

I know its not the firearm part so i guess it wouldnt matter ,but wasnt there a 410 version of the USAS12?

[iwjev]

Are you sure it is a Ruger p90? i just looked them up and that does not look right (unless they did some customer work for the movie). the decocker just does not look right. It might just be mee but this ( http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/store/index.php3?cat=293609&item=831365&sw_activeTab=1 ) S&W looks closer to the gun in the movie.

Thanks,

[azrael]

your gonna have to trust me onthis...they are Ruger P90's...if you can get a look at the movie you will see what I mean

[Chuck Perry]

Definetly Ruger autos, definitely P90's. You can tell they're Rugers by the funky taper cut on the slide near the muzzle. There is a scene is Desperado where he is loading magazines for the pistols in question. They are single stack mags. Only single stack Ruger available at the time was the P90 45ACP.

[Logan5]

Check this out; Percussion double barrel Indian Army ‘ Howdah’ pistol, heavy, side by side barrels of .577 enfield calibre. Dating from mutiny period.
£350

http://www.antiquarian-bygones.co.uk/page36.html

This one appears to be a frontstuffer, whereas the one in Desparado breaks open like a fixed ammunition double gun... Kind of poor pictures, but I still want one. Go caplock, screw the tax stamp!