[valnar]

If I were to buy just one single action gun for fun, I know many of you would say get a Colt SAA. And I may end up doing that.

But Colt aside, who would you list second? I want to know what other SA guns/brands I should be looking at. I will probably only own one, as I prefer my SA/DA Smiths more for collecting purposes.

Is there one particular brand that is more accurate, better made, easier to clean or stays in time better than another?

Thanks,
Robert

[RCL]

Freedom Arms before anything else. :)


http://www.freedomarms.com/

[BlkHawk73]

One of hamilton Bowen's creations. Colt huh? Try a diet of Hot loads and see how it stands up.:neener:

[Soap]

What is it for? Historical? Hunting? CAS?

[JimJD]

I'm really happy with my Ruger Vaquero.
It's solid, prints decently on paper, and cleans up real nice :D
Depending on my mood, I'll put .357's in it one day, .38's the next.

[444]

Freedom Arms: head and shoulders above anything else.
Ruger Blackhawk: Best thing going for under a grand.


Colt, nice, historical, more of a looker than a shooter in my opinion. Not as strong as those mentioned above. Sights not as good as those mentioned above. I wouldn't mind having one. I would enjoy owning it. But if I could only own one SA that I intended to seriously shoot, it wouldn't be a Colt.

[Josey]

My choice would be a blued, faux CCH Ruger Vaquero in 5.5". It would be chambered in 44-40. Why? Ruger isn't going to make anymore. Get the Ruger white faux ivory factory grips. They made fewer of them.

[Jim March]

The Freedom Arms model 97 mid-frame in 357 is quite possibly the best overall SA wheelgun ever built. It has about the same heft as the Colt SAA, it's stronger, accuracy is just unreal, the ergonomics are perfection itself.

Prices start at $1,400 but at that, it's a FAR better value than a Colt SAA.

FA's "model 83" series is a HUGE frame originally designed for the 454Casull mega-magnum. Big, clunky, potent as hell...basically a specialized hunting tool. Magnum Research's "BFR" series is another variant on the same concept, and a lower-price source for "factory built handcannons" using a Ruger-compatible action.

Colt's SAA is a good gun, excellent metallurgy compared to most of the Italians, but there's still often some final tuning/action work desired by people who buy them to shoot them.

Colt's "Cowboy" on the other hand is their lower-cost equivelent. Every report describes it as a "turd" or worse. Avoid at all costs.

If what you want is a classic Colt-type with no integral safety (sixgun carried five-up like the old days) and that real Colt SAA feel/heft, the single best value is probably the US Firearms (USFA) guns. You can get them as a fairly plain finish "Rodeo" for about $500, or prettier variants for more money that shoot just like a Rodeo (which is to say, VERY well). They're made in the OLD Colt plant, and are generally considered better guns than the real current-production SAA. Basically, USFA makes just one gun - when they finish it themselves plain, it's a Rodeo, when they ship it unfinished to Turnbull Restorations it ends up looking drop-dead gorgeous - see also: http://www.gunblast.com/Cumpston_USFA-PreWar.htm and http://www.gunblast.com/USFA_Rodeo.htm

The various Italian clones of the SAA are the cheapest option, running as low as $200 for a Cabella's Millenium. They range from marginal to quite good; the best of these are probably the Ubertis imported by Cimmarron and hand-inspected/tuned in the US. Cimmarron also specs some models that are unique to them, including Bird's-Head and Lighting-type grip frame models. Like the SAA and USFA critters, these are safely carried "five up", hammer down on an empty cylinder.

Exception: Uberti, the biggest of the "Spaghetti SAA" houses, has been bought by Beretta. The first new Beretta SAA is the interesting Stampede - early specimens are being reviewed very favorably; these may be the best Italian SAAs made. And like the Rugers and Freedom Arms, there's a transfer bar safety for true six-up carry. Uberti is apparantly still selling the non-safety SAA clone series under their own name plus selling to Cimmarron, etc.

Finally, there's the Rugers. The Vaquero is mechanically identical inside to the Blackhawks, varying only in finish and sights. Since the New Model Blackhawk/SuperBlackHawk design is basically unchanged going back to 1973, the aftermarket support is simply enormous. These guns are a bit oversize from SAA spec; handling is charitably described as "different" and for some, closer to "clunky". But their strength is just legendary...in 45LC, they can handle double or more the horsepower of 45LC in any of the above guns (Freedom Arms being a possible exception) and hence you find "45LC+P" fodder from Cor-Bon, Bufallo Bore and others marked "Ruger ONLY!!!" that will scatter an Italian SAA clone across half a shooting range. And that's with an all-stock Ruger - several good gunsmiths re-chamber them as five-shots in wild calibers WAY up past the original specs and the frames can take that just fine.

The Ruger "Bisley variants" are notable as being able to handle the most recoil of any of the SA types. The gunsmiths rechambering them in 454Casull, 475Linebaugh and similar "supermagnums" often recommend the Bisley grip type.

There's a whole thread on the various upgrade bits available for Ruger SAs:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80872

Some of these can help tune out the "clunkiness" with grip and hammer changes.

(An interesting factory Ruger option is the "Hunter variant" SuperBlackhawks - these have a very heavy barrel and factory scope rings and mounts. Basically a specialized hunting tool...the new Bisley-ized variant of these is the best of them in my opinion.)

------------------

Upshot: I think the sexiest feel and best accuracy for the price is the FA 97, in five-shot 45LC or my choice would be the 357 sixgun variant. There's no other SA I'd prefer, genuine Colt SAA included.

Since I can't afford it, I'll do a Ruger soon and tune it myself to get the feel I want.

If the goal is ONE gun for multiple real-world roles like woods defense, personal defense and SA plinking/target fun, the Rugers are better than any of the SAA pattern guns simply for raw power and toughness.

BUT the handling and feel on the SAA patterns is still nicer, esp. when comparing stock guns. Of the SAAs, the USFA and Stampede stand out as values...go peruse the comments and reviews on both over at www.sassnet.com as the "Cowboys" there report their experiences.

Hope this helps.

[Black Snowman]

Bang for the buck shooter? Ruger Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk.

Haven't had the luxury of shooting a Freedom Arms. Would like one in .500 S&W though :)

[WonderNine]

Freedom Arms doesn't seem to know how to make a 6 shot .45 caliber revolver. I'll never figure that one out. Never.

[Kevinch]

I also cast my vote for a Ruger Super Blackhawk - strong, accurate & easy to find used in like new condition.

[valnar]

Thanks to everyone who responded. At the risk of asking a stupid question that can easily be searched elsewhere, what's the major differences in look/feel/strength/purpose of the Ruger Bisley Vaquero, Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk?


My desire is more of wanting to own one of everything. So plinking would be my "shooting" goal. I like my SIG semis and my S&W revolvers, but this would be more of a toy.

Since I don't own any .45LC guns now, I probably will forgoe the traditional caliber and get .357 so I can share ammo easier.

-Robert

[Brian Williams]

Nicest thing around, they are just down right purty. USFA
http://www.usfirearms.com/ I wish these were mine.




http://www.usfirearms.com/highres/usprewar.jpg


http://www.usfirearms.com/highres/henrynettleton.jpg

[Werewolf]

Ruger Bisley Vaquero in .45 Colt and 5.5" barrel. NOTE the Bisley. Don't get the plain Vaquero - IMHO the Bisley grip is vastly superior to the non bisley grip.

The Ruger action is about 2 to 3 times stronger than the Colt action and you can fire very hot loads out of it for hunting that you couldn't fire out of a Colt without - exageration follows - blowing yourself and your neighborhood to hell and back.

In addition the Ruger costs about a third of what you'll pay for a Colt SAA so for the same money you'd spend on one Colt SAA you could also buy 2 more Ruger SAA's or maybe a good lever gun in addition to the single Ruger.

Go for the Ruger. Good quality, good price, good gun!

[444]

Very nice perfessr. Gorgeous.

"major differences in look/feel/strength/purpose of the Ruger Bisley Vaquero, Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk?"

I will give you the Readers Digest version as I see it. It may not be completely right: Bisley Vaquero has a different style grip frame. Look at a picture on maybe the Ruger website and you can see the difference in the Bisley grip frame. I think the Vaqueros are the fixed sight versions. The rest of the gun would be the same as a Blackhawk.
The Super Blackhawk is the .44 Mag. It is slightly bigger and more robust and usually (but not always) has a squared off in the back trigger guard. I always considered the 7 1/2" SBH to be one of the must haves in any real gun collection. I have had a stainless one for about 10 years and it is a fantastic handgun.
The Bisley grip frame is extremly comfortable. When I bought my Blackhawks, the Bisley grip frame was not yet offered. The only one I own is a Single Six Bisley in .22LR. This is a personal choice, but if I had it to do over again, I would get them all in the Bisley configuration.
In a gun I intend to shoot and shoot seriously, I usually want adjustable sights. These Rugers can take anything you care to dish out. If you are a handloader you see loads on-line or in a magazine and you can feel free to try them all in the Rugers. Hot, mild, heavy, light, fast, slow, whatever. If you play around like this, you need adjustable sights.
You can get a few of the Rugers in a convertible model. In other words they come with more than one cylinder, allowing you to shoot more than one caliber out of the same gun. I own a .357/9mm, and a .45 Colt/.45 ACP Blackhawk.

[ruger357]

Ruger.

[Jim March]

On the Rugers:

Since 1973, all the Ruger SAs use the same basic frame "primary frame" - what the cylinder goes in. ('Cept the cap'n'ball "Old Army", but we'll ignore that for now).

SuperBlackhawks all have steel grip frames versus aluminum on the blued Blackhawks. The vast majority of the Supers are in 44Magnum - a very few have recently shipped in 41Mag (Hunter) and there were 5,000 "357 Maximums" made on a super-stretch frame.

Superblackhawks with 4.68" and 5.5" barrels have a grip the SAME size and shape as the Blackhawk and basic model Vaqueros, also known as the "XR3-RED" grip frame. Vaqueros have this grip frame in steel (blue and stainless), stainless Blackhawks have it in stainless steel, blue Blackhawks in the aforementioned aluminum.

So, a shorter-barreled Super will feel a lot like a basic Vaquero or Blackhawk, except for the slightly different hammer. The SBH hammer can be swapped onto the others, and is a popular mod.

Longer-barrel SBHs have a larger grip frame, which is USUALLY the "squareback" trigger guard type ("Dragoon"). In some people's hands, that triggerguard is an annoyance (knuckle-wack syndrome). A popular cure on these is a wood or rubber grip that fills in the area behind the triggerguard. Recently, the "Hunter variants" have shipped with that same bigger grip, but with a round triggerguard. People who pull that grip frame to swap out for Bisley find that the Hunter grip frame/grip setup is highly prized on the used parts market as Brownell's or similar doesn't have 'em yet.

Then there's the Bisley grip type. It does feel weird to some folks, you'll have to actually handle these to see the difference. But it does have a hell of a rep for recoil control!

Finally, Ruger is now shipping a 357 with the Bird's-Head grip. This is really neat and surprisingly good at recoil handling, through not in the Bisley's class. Still, some reports put it better than the XR3-RED and certainly more compact.

That said: realistically, for 357Magnum in this size gun, recoil control isn't a huge problem and you may prefer the feel of the XR3-RED type grip. It certainly looks more "classic" as it's derived from the SAA grip.

One more really sick thing you can do with a 357 Ruger SA if you're a reloader: go find an extra 357 cylinder, see if it fits your gun (50/50 chance it'll drop in), get it altered by a local gunsmith to fit if not, and then send that cylinder to Gary Reeder along with $200.

He'll ream it out to a wildcat caliber called "356GNR".

It's a 41Mag necked down to 357 :D.

How does a 125grain JHP at 2,000fps sound?

:evil:

Oh ya BABY!

This is the kind of psycho stuff the Rugers are strong enough for, and nothing else on the planet is.

[caz223]

At the risk of sounding uneducated, I will answer.
Duh.
Are there other revolvers than Rugers? :p
If you get a ruger, (Several hundred less than some alternatives.) and you don't like it, you can send it to Gary Reeder (while waiting for it to get re-chambered.) for an action job, free spin, etc, and it will still prolly be less money than you expected, and it will be stronger than almost anything out there.
I LOVE the action job he does on them.
Smoooooth!

[citizen]

Uhhhhh......BTW - did I tell you I HATE you guys????

ESPECIALLY your photos, PERFESSOR??????:banghead: ;)

[Snaps]

I just picked up a Rugar Vaquero about 2 weeks ago. Really more for the collection than anything else. I wanted a .45 colt for awhile now. I havn't even shot it yet so I'll leave the opinion out of this till I get some time with it. That probably won't be till after archery season though:evil:

[mec]

What Jim March said -
Ruger for long trouble free service life
USFA for the best of all possible traditional SAA
http://www.gunpix.com/gallery/Handguns/Single-Action_Pistols/usfartcoins.jpg

[utahminirevolver]

Guess which SA revolver I'd buy, based on my username.

That's right!
North American Arms mini-revolver. Great gun, the right price, and the ammo fits my budget.

[Oracle]

My favorite single-action, and the one I use as a "woods/kit gun" is a Birdshead Vaquero in .45 Colt. I've found that the Birdshead grip is better for taming the recoil of stiff loads than the standard Vaquero grip (I've never shot a Bisley, so it could be even better still), and it's shorter barrel and more compact construction make it much easier to pack.

It's also the only SA revolver I have at this point, I sold the others as I simply never shot them anymore (I don't do CAS).

[popbang]

I have to agree with Oracle, the Ruger Birdshead Vaquero is one sweet little packing gun. I have shot some heavy loads out of mine just to see how it handles them, and I was amazed how nice it was to shoot. With a 3-3/4 inch barrel it has become my primary carry gun. I just like the way it handles and shoots for me.

[Jim March]

The Bird's-heads ARE nice.

And if you handle one and the hammer reach seems to be too much, don't forget that you can swap hammers to the SuperBlackhawk or Bisley type to lower the hammer-reach in either of two stages.

The SBH hammer swap is easy. On a Bisley hammer, the hammer needs to be modified slightly (dremel and file time).

A *lot* of folks are very happy after dropping in the SBH hammer on a bird's head.

[valnar]

What's the best of the SAA clones that include a transfer bar? Being authentic is one thing, but being unsafe is another.

Ruger and who else?

Thanks for all the replies so far....

-Robert

[Dr.Who]

A Ruger, they are bascilly over built (will handle hot loads), tough, can safely carry 6 rolls due to transfer bar system, and come in 3 different grips to satisfy your needs. I have a pair of Vaqueros regular grip in 357. Now looking at a pair of Bisley's, like the Consecutive number serise... They are a good value for the money!

Enjoy...:D

[Jim March]

Valnar: early reviews of the Beretta Stampede show it to be the clear "other choice" in transfer-bar SAs. Go to the forums at www.sassnet.com - you can use the search function even without being a member. Look for "stampede" in the main forum. LOTS of highly positive reviews.

NOTE: the Stampede isn't as strong as a Ruger, but it does come very close to the handling characteristics of the Colt SAA and should match it for strength. Translation: in 357, too much of the very hottest 125s or heavy hunting loads might hurt it (I'd treat it about like a K-Frame S&W) and in 45LC, a jacketed 200grain @ 1,100 or hardcast 260 @ 1,000 are about as hot as you should ever go and then not a massive diet. However, if most of your practice is in 38/38+P or 357/45LC Cowboy loads and you load it hotter for occasional woods duty or even CCW, you'll get a very pleasant little critter with better handling than most Rugers for most people's hands.

Errr...well, there IS another choice: the Freedom Arms 97 series, which means major $$$. If I had $1,500 I'd jump on the '97 in 357.

[mcshot]

For the money I'm most impressed with the J.P. Sauer Western Marshall.
mc

[Neal]

Without a doubt, a Ruger Blackhawk convertible. Comes with a .357magnum/.38special cylinder AND a 9mm cylinder. Three calibers, one gun!

[Dr.Rob]

One all around shooter/plinker.. Ruger Vaquero.

One really nice cowboy gun.. save up for a Colt.

[Jim March]

Dr. Rob: I'm not sure that's true anymore, about the Colt SAA.

I really think the USFAs have kicked Colt's butt, while being made in the original Colt building! And their marketing strategy just rocks: produce a great basic shooter with a plain-jane finish @ $500, or let people order them as fancy as desired and still come in cheaper than an SAA, in a gun that needs zero "tuning and tweaking", feels like an SAA, etc.

http://www.usfirearms.com/

Colt just doesn't care anymore. These guys DO.

[Dr.Rob]

Ah Jim you forget.. I have a thing for the little horse logo.

Also, the Colt will always be a Colt, its value likely won't change much. Of course it costs twice as much too.

The best thing about the Ruger is it can be had in 44 mag..no Colt or clone can handle that pressure in the same sized pistol.

meaning I can load up a 240gr flat point at a ultra low 750fps for cowboy and plinking.. or load a HOT 300 gr hornady XTP compressed fire breathing elk stomper. ( I COULD, not that I would)

One BIG complaint about Rugers is the grip size. The grips is really tiny for a magnum. The super BH grip frame on a vaquero upper would be cool, but a little bit larger than your "real' cowboy guns.

Still the grip on the Ruger can be improved with skinnier grips eagle 'gunfighter" grips are a LOT thinner and alllow you to wrap more of your hand around the pistol.

US Firearms looks cool, but they are way behind on the 'Lightning" rifle, though it seems like rather than make them from Italian parts they are b doing the whole thing here.

The USF pistols are very pretty and functional. Nothing wrong with them at all.

[farscott]

FA's "model 83" series is a HUGE frame originally designed for the 454Casull mega-magnum. Big, clunky, potent as hell...basically a specialized hunting tool. I do not believe the "Big, clunky" part of this statement to be true. The FA Model 83 actually carries very well since it is not much bigger than a Colt Model P. It is considerably stronger than the Colt, but much of the strength increase is due to modern materials and tolerances -- and the five-shot cylinder. It is much easier to carry than a Ruger Redhawk and no harder to carry than a Ruger Blackhawk.

If I could only have one single-action, my choice would be the FA Model 97 in .357 Magnum. These are very nice, six-shot revolvers with craftsmanship that is obvious to the eye and performance that justifies the price tag.

[citizen]

While at my FFL for other reasons this morning, I handled and pretty much decided I LUV the USFA .45!!!!That'll pro'bly do it for me!!!!

On a side note, while talking with a "prosperous" older gentleman, he was there to acquire a new belt and holster for his Vaquero. He ALSO was EXTREMELY impressed with the USFA, but not a buyer;nor was I (impeccable, but $499 on consignment). As I watched he dropped $331 for his rig!!!!! Leads me to wonder what I'm wishing for.....:eek:

[valnar]

For the price and the looks, I'm getting the Stampede. The Ruger is nice, but I made up my mind. Thanks for all the replies.

I may end up with an adjustable sight Blackhawk one of these days, but for ol' time fun, the Stampede is as close to a Colt as I want to get, with a transfer bar to boot (sorry Colt fans, I consider that a good thing)

-Robert

[Jim March]

Anybody looking for a non-transfer-bar SAA pattern needs to read this:

http://www.usfirearms.com/pdf/guntests0703.pdf

It's a reprint of a Gun Tests Magazine comparison of five guns: a brand new Colt SAA, an original 1904 SAA, the AWA Peacekeeper (basically an Italian clone that's imported unfinished and given a top-notch finish and action job here in the US), a Uberti and the USFA Rodeo.

With the caveat that the finish is rather plain, the Rodeo is literally the best out-of-the-box shooter tested, and is enthusiastically awarded the "best buy" title. The new-production Colt is the WORST shooter, and some of the mistakes such as the grossly overpolished front sight blade make it unsuitable as a shooter without really serious re-work.

:scrutiny:

In stark contrast, the Rodeo was clearly built to win SASS events right out of the box, with sights that are as good as possible while keeping it within it's class and excellent feel and accuracy.

Now, the Vaquero and probably the Stampede are better "woods carry/plinking/utility guns" with the Ruger being tops for critter defense. But for CAS/SASS, the Rodeo is just IT.

Final point on Rugers: if the goal is to use truly wild-child ammo such as the 300 - 325grain 44Mags and 45LC+Ps, the answer is the Ruger Bisley grip frame.

[MagKnightX]

I'd have to suggest the BFR. It's supposed to be very accurate, and you can get the .45/70 version, get a spare cylinder, and use it with .450 Marlin as well. Handcannon!

[maytom]

I agree with the Ruger Vaquero or either of the BlackHawks!! Ruger makes one heck of a strong gun for the money!! While not as fancy finished or perfect tolerences as say the Freedomarm's, they'll sure shoot with the best of them!!
Like someone metioned earlier, Gary Reeder sure makes some awesome custom Rugers, and I'd love to pick up one of his fine customs anyday!!
;)

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/

[tex_n_cal]

I have a Bisley .45 Blackhawk, which I bought to have customized - it shoots so darn well, now, though I think I'll leave it alone.:)

The Fredom Arms revos are works of art - just made like big, fine watches.

The regular Rugers are indeed bigger and less handy than a Colt SAA or clone, although undeniably stronger.

The USFA Rodeo is a nice shooter, and since it has a slightly larger cylinder than a Colt, a little stronger. Bear in mind, though, a USFA with high polish and color case finish will cost you as much as a Colt. Will it hold the same value as the Colt? YGIAGAM

Dad had a Uberti with adjustable sights in .44-40. He was less than amused with the handloads I once loaded for it. Nothing damaged, but...:evil:

What I want are one of the Colt New Frontiers - a flattop adjustable sighted 2nd & 3rd generation gun - in .44 Special. Colt looks and balance, and strength to take stiff loads, too.

BTW, the break open Ubertis - the Schofeld and Russian replicas are made from modern steel - and said to be quite strong enough for any sane load. I always did think that #3 Russian looked awfully cool with that spur trigger guard. :)