My annie likes .... Thunderbolts?


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scythefwd
February 17, 2009, 12:14 PM
My anchutz seems to shoot tighter groups with remington thunderbolts than with match ammo (winchester type 3). It was a difference of about .25 inches at 25y, but I was surprised. Man is that a light trigger, I wasn't even using as a dual stage because it is too light when I am in the prone.

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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 17, 2009, 12:18 PM
It happens. Rimfires are unpredictables. Some expensive rifles like cheap ammo, and vice versa, and so on. You just never know until you try.

Having said that, if you try 5-10 or more different *kinds* of match type ammo, you'll more likely than not hit upon one which your rifle shoots better than the thunderbolts. I had a Henry pump (which I should have kept) which liked cheap Remington subsonics quite a bit.

scythefwd
February 17, 2009, 12:23 PM
Tad,
When the rifle was being used in matchs, it was shooting subsonics, not the stuff I had on hand here.

hksw
February 17, 2009, 12:31 PM
Are you sure it wasn't the phenomenon of shooting match grade ammo first which leaves good coating of the paraffinic coating (on the bullet) in the bore and then shooting the TBs right after? The residual parrafin giving the TBs a short period of exceptional precision? (This I've done myself.)

scythefwd
February 17, 2009, 12:32 PM
The rem's were shot first, and third, the mark III's were shot second.

IndianaBoy
February 17, 2009, 01:19 PM
This surprises me considering how inconsistent Remington rimfire ammo has been for me in every firearm I have tried it in.

I won't buy Remington rimfire anymore.

WardenWolf
February 17, 2009, 01:25 PM
Careful. Thunderbolts are wax-coated and will foul your barrel horribly.

scythefwd
February 17, 2009, 01:55 PM
Indiana,
There was 2 FTF's from the box.

Mike,
I don't think there has been 50 thunders total sent down that barrel in its whole existance.

atblis
February 17, 2009, 02:28 PM
Problem with Thunderbolts is the next batch (or box even) will shoot like crap.

WardenWolf
February 17, 2009, 02:29 PM
Scythe, don't shoot anymore. I've seen them effectively ruin the barrel of a Ruger Mark III. And normal solvents won't cut wax.

SaxonPig
February 17, 2009, 02:37 PM
I chronographed a variety of 22 ammo a couple years back and found the Thunderbolt brand to be horribly inconsistent, varying as much as 100 FPS in the same gun. Such wildly erratic velocities cannot promote good accuracy and indeed I found this ammo to be terrible in the guns I tried it in.

I find the fact that your gun shoots it well to be nothing less than amazing.

scythefwd
February 17, 2009, 02:42 PM
SAX,
That is what I was thinking as well. I know they are inconsistant, but they grouped best (still about 2 moa from the sitting position).

Mike,
There isn't any worry about me putting more down the barrel. I won't have access to the annie again for several years. I only shot it to remember my grandfather who passed a couple of days ago and it was his rifle.

Mineral spirits will cut wax (parafin as well as others).

WardenWolf
February 17, 2009, 03:06 PM
Ah, Scythe. Sorry to hear it. I'll be doing the same the next time I get to the range. My grandfather passed away on January 22nd. He left me 2 rifles, an Arisaka 99 he brought back from Okinawa and an Underwood M1 Carbine. I just bought some new ammo for the Arisaka. Don't worry, it's safe to shoot. I restored it myself several years ago, and it's an early production example.

IndianaBoy
February 17, 2009, 03:22 PM
Almost all 22 rimfire ammo is wax coated.

Even copper plated rounds usually have some wax on them.


I had a horrible leading problem with Thunderbolts in my Mark II.

JohnBT
February 17, 2009, 03:35 PM
The liquid form of what is called paraffin wax is mineral oil, but paraffin wax tends to be hard and brittle at room temp.

Eley uses a softer mixture of tallow and beeswax. I want to say it's sheep tallow, but I honestly don't remember.

Anyway, it can pay long-term dividends if you discover that your rimfire likes the cheap stuff.

John

scythefwd
February 17, 2009, 03:50 PM
JohnBT,
At 100y, I can't shoot the cheap stuff. I will be moving to subsonics, quite possibly remington again (I think that is what he shot). The thunders work ok at 25-50y, but not further.

IndianaBoy
February 17, 2009, 05:10 PM
My experience testing Remington subsonics was that they had extremely inconsistent powder charges. Vertical stringing was the norm.

If you want an accurate subsonic load, look to the CCI subsonics.

tube_ee
February 17, 2009, 10:02 PM
Eley uses a softer mixture of tallow and beeswax. I want to say it's sheep tallow, but I honestly don't remember.

I always thought that:

Beef fat = Tallow

Pig fat = Lard

other animal fat = ??

Am I wrong?

--Shannon

DWH
February 17, 2009, 10:32 PM
TBs are probably the dirtiest .22 rimfire ammo I've ever used!

Runningman
February 17, 2009, 11:15 PM
I always thought that:

Beef fat = Tallow
Tallow can be made from either Beef fat or Sheep fat (mutton).

Eley will not say if the Tallow they use is from Beef or Sheep. But Sheep Tallow has better properties for use with metal.

I prefer to test 22 RF ammo in rifles at 50 Yards or greater these days. I seen in testing more than a few times where a particular 22 RF load would show good performance at 25 yards. Than just open up the groups big time at 50 yards. Remington 22 RF ammo is notorious for this.

Nothing wrong with Paraffin based wax as a bullet lube if it is done correctly. CCI uses a Paraffin based wax on all there 22 RF ammo. I've shot a lot of CCI 22 "Standard Velocity" ammo out of my Suhl match rifle, Anschutz, and CZ 22 rifles over the years they shot good for me and never had a leading issue.

The Remington Thunderbolts problem is the lead is to soft for the velocity. The extremely soft lead and to little lube is why Thunderbolts tend to lead barrels up.

My anchutz seems to shoot tighter groups with remington thunderbolts than with match ammo (winchester type 3).
Sad to say I don't buy Remington or Winchester 22 RF ammo these days, far to inconsistent from lot to lot for my tastes.

Bill B.
February 17, 2009, 11:18 PM
Try some Eley EPS in that Annie and get back to us and let us know if it still shoots Thunderbolts better ..........

If you wish to try something that isn't high end pick up a pack of CCI Mini Mags as they shoot very well from my Annie 64M.

rangerruck
February 17, 2009, 11:45 PM
I would try any ammo from Aguila, Golden Eagle, or Eley. All are made by eley.
I would also try American Eagle, red box, made by federal.
The reason I say this, is I so hate remmy ammo; it is so funky, dirty, filthy,
bad crimps, bad rims, not concentric, poorly loaded, etc., etc.
I mean you name it, and remmy will load it to that crap standard.

the only good remmy ammo is the orange box or yellow box, or their mach 2
ammo. Funny, that is all made by Eley as well...

JohnBT
February 18, 2009, 08:28 AM
"The Remington Thunderbolts problem is the lead is to soft for the velocity"

And if you've ever looked closely at bulk pack ammo you can frequently see the dings in the bullets from tumbling in the copper wash and/or being piled in the container. The dings make for a lopsided bullet that might not fly straight, especially for 100 yards. I've forgotten, what's a .22 lr doing when it leaves the barrel, 50,000 rpm or so?

John

goldie
February 18, 2009, 08:30 AM
they work perfectly in my hi standard sharpshooter,just clean the gun good after use.....

AirForceShooter
February 18, 2009, 08:53 AM
My Remington 511 loves ThunderThuds.
My Marlin 39A hates them
Go figure

AFS

hksw
February 18, 2009, 01:29 PM
other animal fat = ??

soylant green?

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