[cjranucci]

I am considering purchasing my first handgun (first gun period) and I have a few questions. To be able to fairly answer them, you will need to know a little about me I suppose. I have read this forum for a long time and appreciate the collective wisdom on the topic of firearms here and hope that you can help me out.

I am 31 yrs old, married with 3 young daughters in the house. The primary purpose of this weapon will be to defend their safety and well being. I live in Texas, so once I purchase a gun, I will be applying for my CCL.

I have never owned a gun, but I have a lot of (too much) experience with them. I was in the Army for 5 years and deployed to Iraq for all of 2004. I have qualified with every major weapon as I was a combat life saver and required to attend all ranges as a safety measure. I have fired my weapon in hostile situations and know that I am a damn good shot. It is actually firing my weapon (M16 and 50 cal vehicle mount) that has made me swear that I would be happy to never own a gun again. That said, common sense has told me that my young daughters can not defend themselves and look to me to do that. In order to be the protector that I need to be for them, I need something a little more powerful than the baseball bat that sits next to the bed.

As for fit, I am a tall 6 foot one, 200 pounds, so grip size is not a major issue. I am looking for a 45 caliber that can be comfortably concealed carried that will not break the bank and that will handle business when ever (hopefully never) it is needed.

Please let me know your personal preferences and I hope to learn enough from all of your experiences to make the right decision the first time.

[Duke of Doubt]

Did you qualify with the M9? Do you have handgunning experience? The M9/92FS is my personal carry weapon, but I defend my home with revolvers, up to and including .44 magnum, filled with all sorts of defensive loads which an autoloader cannot feed. My recommendation would depend on your handgunning experience.

[The Lone Haranguer]

Some off the top of my head: Glock 30; compact version of the SIG P220 series (these tend to be a bit more costly however); compact version of the S&W M&P; S&W "Third Generation (older, traditional design with metal frames).

A .40 or even 9mm caliber would give you more choices. :) This would put medium-frame Glocks, CZ75s, etc. in play.

[easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca]

First of all, I want to thank you for your service. I am Canadian but appreciate the sacrifice and courage of American fighting forces in the Middle East.

Considering your first hand combat experience, I think you are better qualified to decide on your own HD piece.

Since your post was asking about members' personal preference in .45 acp, my own would be a 1911 Commander, Colt or a good clone.

[okespe04]

Hello and welcome the the forum, I would say +1 on the glock 30.

[ar10]

I'll put my .02 in for the XD's, any of them. They're reliable, heavy, and accurate. Besides once you shoot one caliber the rest will be the same + plus you don't have to buy a new holster when you change calibers, (except .45apc's). :D
I think your biggest concern is the 3 daughters running around the house and how you handle the gun. Do you keep it loaded? If not, then what good is it. Is it accessible? The same goes for gun locks and gun safes. Things happen really fast when crap hits the fan. Just my own opinion.

[sgt127]

Thank you for your service to our country.

Now, lets get into the serious aspects of gun ownership. Are you going to really be a shooter? Go to the range a couple times a month? Spend time cleaning, practicing and shooting? If the honest answer is no, thats fine. Not everyone is a shooter. I work with alot of cops that aren't shooters, many of them with military experience. A gun can simply be a tool, period. The folks on the gun forums, me included, think of guns as a hobby, as a sport, as a form of recreation, and, as a tool.

If you are not really into being a shooter and simply want a good tool for any problem that may arise, I would really suggest a good revolver. They served well for self defense for over 100 years, in desk drawers, military holsters and on the hips of every cop in the US. Advantage: Easy manual of arms, reliable and available with different style grips and calibers to suit your needs.

If you choose an auto, you realistically need to go fire 200-300 rounds of whatever you plan to carry in it to make absolutly certain its reliable and, you fully understand the weapon, how to clear a nalfunction, where the decocker is, where the safety is, etc.

Its easy to teach the family to use a revovler. It doesn't get any simpler. Open cylinder and you instantly know if its loaded or not. Point, line up sights, press trigger at threat. Easy to secure with a padlock through the frame to keep it safe from those kids.

I consider myself a gun guy. I own some of the highest rated semiauto pistols currently available. But, I very often carry a 6 shot K frame Smith and Wesson .357. Very effective defensive round, easy to carry and, utterly reliable in most any situation.

When it comes down to it, its not so much the tool in the warriors hand, but the mindset of the warrior. A warrior, who has looked down the sights of an M-16 and a .50 cal who is currently armed with a .38 special revolver is much more formidable than a Walter Mitty armed with a high cap Semi auto and a dozen extra magazines.

I only offer my advice becasue you asked. If you were standing beside me, I would let you try everything I have until you find the one that fits you right and THAT, would be the best choice for you.

Best of luck to you, do not forget the humble revolver in your quest.

I see you are in Texas, if you are in the DFW area, PM me and I will stand by my offer to let you shoot anything in my stable until you find something you like.

[NG VI]

From your physical description and the description of what you want, the Glock 30 or 30SF (whichever feels better) is what immediately came to mind. They are pretty short, top to bottom, especially with the 9rd magazine, are quite accurate like the other short Glocks, are very reliable, and are in your requested caliber.

When you get your carry license, don't ever take whatever gun you decide on off until it's time for bed. Many people seem to have this complex where they don't want to seem like they are paranoid or something so they will go to great lengths to only carry when it is *reasonable*, not thinking about the fact that it is always reasonable and that many attacks on people happen in their own home. Much like waiting for police, you may not have time to get your gun out of the safe before you need it. I'd get a fast-opening safe you can mount near the bed and otherwise just leave it on. All gun accidents occur when the gun is being handled, never while it is holstered.

[Black Knight]

I to want to thank you for your service and welcome you. If you are familiar with the M9 pistol you would feel right at home with the Beretta 92/96 series of pistols. The 92 is the M9 and the 96 is the same pistol in 40 S&W. Other than that any high quality 9mm, 40 S&W, or 45 ACP will do the trick. For a revolver any high quality double action .38 Special (capable of +P), 357 Magnum, 44 Special, 44 Magnum (use 44 Special ammo), or 45 caliber will do as well. You will find that most revolvers used for personal defense are in the 38/357 arena. If you choose a revolver a 2 1/2 to 4 inch barrel is good. Some folks have choose a 6 inch barrel but unfortunately the longer the barrel the more leverage the BG has if he tries to take the gun away from you. Good luck on your search.

[ArchAngelCD]

Thank you for your service to us all and welcome to the forum...

If you're looking for a .45 Auto that can conceal fairly well without emptying you pockets there are a few good ones out there.

The S&W M&P (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&categoryId=15711&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15708&top_category=15708) line comes in various sizes in a lot of calibers including the .45 Auto. They are well worth a look.

The Springfield XD (http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php) is very popular and with good reason. It too is reliable and affordable.

Since you are quite familiar with Beretta handguns but probably don't want to carry a heavy handgun like your service weapon there's always the Beretta PX4 Storm F (https://www.berettausa.com/e2wItemMain.aspx?parentID=IT00006331&parentLink=2100000084:3100001364:3100001368) in .45 Auto. It's also a good handgun and in the same price range.

There are other very good choices from manufacturers like Kahr (http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_45acp.html/) which I don't know much about or Sig (http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/Default.aspx) and H&K (http://www.hk-usa.com/) which are very high quality but a lot more expensive.

I hope this will help you a little. good luck finding something you like...

[cjranucci]

Thank you for all of the responses. To answer a couple of questions that were raised:

Yes I have extensive handgun experience. That experience is with the M9. I have qualified expert in the traditional Army range settings, as well as several improvised scenarios on the range designed by Special Forces trainers.

I would like to stick to a 45, the reason being that as I have a ton of experience with the M9, if I am going to carry something, it is going to be able to stop an attacker in their tracks.

I do have 3 little girls in the house, and I intend to keep the gun on my person while in the house as I have a rather large home (3900 sq. ft) and a gun in a safe on one side of the house is no good when you are on the other side of the house.

When asleep, the gun will be in a safe next to the bed within reach. I hope to have a safe that can be opened instantly.

Funny all of the suggestions for the G30 as that is exactly what I had my eye on. My boss is a huge gun guy and he insists on a Kimber Carry 2, but I can't really drop $1,200 on a gun right now.

Follow up questions, what is the main difference between the G30 and G30SF? What is everyone's opinion on the trigger safety on the Glocks? I know that I will need to go and fire one to form my own opinion, but I would be interested to hear what everyone thinks.

[NG VI]

The safety in the Glock trigger is there to help prevent snags from discharging the weapon, not to prevent you from firing it. With the Glock platform it is important to keep your finger out of the trigger guard, just like any other pistol, revolver, shotgun, or rifle.

The SF is the same as the regular 30, but with a slightly shorter gripframe from backstrap to frontstrap. They came out because many thought the 20/21/29/30 were too blocky and the grip was too large. Guessing by your size I'm going to venture that it probably isn't a problem for you either way, and the choice between 30 and 30SF is going to just be on which one feels better for you.

Also, don't hold FMJ performance against 9mm too much, pretty much any decent carry quality JHP is going to significantly outperform the ball we carry overseas. And there is realistically not a single reason why you should buy a gun that is unreliable with JHP, and not a single reason why you should carry anything but JHP in a service-caliber pistol.

[Duke of Doubt]

cjranucci, with all of your experience on the M9 I am quite surprised you do not plan to own one. I came to the Beretta 92FS late in life, after years of reading and believing gun magazine articles that claimed if you ran anything less than .40 through the Bad Guy, he'd just smile and keep coming. First of all, as you probably know and as I'm here to confirm, that just ain't so. Second, when I finally bought a couple of 92FS pistols last year as part of a revised carry system and tried them out, I fell in love. The 92FS is a truly outstanding pistol, superior to all autoloaders I have shot other than my Remington-Rand 1911A1 with National Match barrel. My opinion of all those gun writers dropped another big notch that first day at the range with my first Beretta pistol. I never plan to carry a different gun as my primary concealed pistol.

For home defense, I'd really recommend a .44 Magnum like the 29 Smith, loaded with expanding .44 Magnum rounds and NOT .44 Special. I once put a Cor-Bon .44 Special +P round through, among other things, both sides of a plaster and lathe wall, a steel baking pan and the brass lockwork of a sweater chest, and the round did NOT significantly expand (I recovered it).

[cjranucci]

I hear what you are saying, and I am in no way knocking the 9mm round or Beretta weapons. I just choose to have something with a little more punch. While I know that a 9mm round will not bounce of an assailant, I want to make sure that when and if I am forced to use deadly force, the assailant stays down.

Also, I had no idea that the .44 Special +P round had that much force.

[Duke of Doubt]

cjranucci: "Also, I had no idea that the .44 Special +P round had that much force."

Oh, I give it higher-than-anticipated marks for penetration, you bet. But I was amazed how little the round deformed. I mean, it DID deform, but expansion was minimal even for a +P hollowpoint round. I suspect the jacketing was engineered just a tad on the tough side on those old Cor-Bons. I still have a few around.

[NG VI]

Duke, did it go through anything bullets are normally designed to expand in, like a human or animal? If it was just going through hard objects, that doesn't really surprise me. Liquid is what really makes a bullet open up, not punching through objects. Most hard barriers actually reduce or eliminate a bullet's ability to expand.

CJranucci, how do you feel about .40 S&W? Splits the difference in size between 9mm and .45, has capacity closer to 9mm than .45, can be had much more easily in a concealable firearm that isn't a 1911 of some sort, and it pushes midweight bullets to respectable velocities. Also, since it was developed after the rise of effective JHP ammunition, it is nearly impossible to find a bad carry load for it. Also it is cheaper to shoot than .45.

Unfortunately it can also be pretty peppy, since it is a higher powered cartridge than the 9mm but it is found in 9mm-sized guns. Some people really don't like it for that reason, others, like me, sort of got into handgunning with the round and don't really notice.

[Duke of Doubt]

NGVI: "Duke, did it go through anything bullets are normally designed to expand in, like a human or animal? If it was just going through hard objects, that doesn't really surprise me. Liquid is what really makes a bullet open up, not punching through objects. Most hard barriers actually reduce or eliminate a bullet's ability to expand."

Interestingly, that particular round did NOT encounter organic matter, and I've had feedback similar to yours on that shoot. However, that particular round DID almost certainly ricochet approximately 120 degrees off an enameled oven (leaving no mark!) after penetrating a host of other objects of varying consistency, and landed smack in the middle of the floor with minimal expansion (though significant deformation). Quite instructive.

[cjranucci]

Hi NG VI. I am kind of sold on the .45. I want a bigger bang for the buck and as I am a fairly big guy, I can conceal something of the magnitude of a Glock 30 fairly easily. The .40 does have a lot of kick, though that is not an issue for me.

[Jenrick]

cjranucci: I'd personally go for either the G21 or the G21 SF. With your size there's little reason to go for a compact to conceal. I'm a hair shorter and a bit thinner and carry either a G34 w/ an attached light, or a USP .45 w/ attached light in an outside the waistband (OWB) holster. I've never had any problems.

Everyone has rattled off the various makes and models already so I'm not gonna go there. My advice is to second everyone who says to go out and try guns out. Also if this is going to possibly save the lives of your daughters, don't scrimp. If you think a USP or Les Baer is what it's gonna take, then do it.

-Jenrick

As an aside the USP in .45 is an awfully nice gun, I love mine :)

[Davionmaximus]

Before you buy the Glock take a good look at the XD 45... The grip angle is quite a bit differant. The added grip safety is nice for concealed carry.
Thank you for your service....

[ar10]

Before you buy the Glock take a good look at the XD 45... The grip angle is quite a bit differant. The added grip safety is nice for concealed carry.

I'm not that big a fan of the .45apc. After wearing it for 12+ hrs it feels like my right side is short than my left side. I think what I like most though is it always fires when I pull the trigger. I can live with the weight. :D:D:D

[cjranucci]

Thanks for all of the information. Heading to the gun show in Denton, TX this weekend. Doubt I will pick something up so soon, but if I do, I will let you all know what I come home with.


Thanks!

cjranucci

[WVMountainBoy]

Springfield XD45 compact is a worthwhile consideration. Have over 2,500 rds through mine with no malfunctions. I have large hands as well and it fits me well. The safety mechs lend some confidence as well.

[Walkalong]

I would like to stick to a 45XD or a good 1911. :)

[Rmac58]

I have a S&W L frame, 686 in .357 (revolver) and a CZ P-06 in .40, ( auto loader) either will work, I think.

[C-grunt]

Cjranucci..... What unit were you in?

With the little rug rats running amuck, take a good look at the 1911. Its got a thumb safety and a grip safety. If, god forbid, one of the little ones gets ahold of your weapon, it will be harder for them to AD it.