[Drizzt]

The Associated Press State & Local Wire

January 16, 2003, Thursday, BC cycle


12:31 PM Eastern Time

SECTION: State and Regional

LENGTH: 465 words

HEADLINE: Troopers getting military-style rifles in terrorism response

BYLINE: By BILL BASKERVILL, Associated Press Writer

DATELINE: RICHMOND, Va.

BODY:
The state police are upgrading their firepower with military-style semiautomatic rifles that will be issued to each trooper and field supervisor.

"September 11 caused us to rethink a lot about how we police Virginia," said Col. Gerald Massengill, superintendent of the Virginia State Police. "Certainly when we saw state troopers at locations at airports, the Pentagon, nuclear power plants and bridge-tunnels as the result of the attacks ... we started looking at appropriate weapons." The state police are buying the semiautomatic version of the military M-4 automatic carbine used by American special operations personnel in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Semiautomatic fire is more accurate than automatic fire, said Sgt. David Cole of the state police firearms unit. The semiautomatic version of the M-4, a compact derivative of the M-16, also costs less than the automatic version, he said.

State troopers are now equipped with .357-caliber semiautomatic handguns, as well as 12-gauge pump-action shotguns carried in the trunks of their patrol cruisers.

The M-4 "expands the capabilities in that it will allow our troopers to address threats" far beyond the range of sidearms or shotguns, Massengill said.

The rifle gives troopers the capability of "stopping a bomber before he is a threat to a (power) plant" or any other target, Cole said Thursday. He said he knew of no other police agency that equips its patrol officers with as much firepower as the Virginia State Police.

About 1,500 M-4s are being purchased from Colt's Manufacturing Co. in Hartford, Conn., for about $1.3 million in anti-terrorism money provided by the federal government, Massengill said. That comes to $867 per rifle.

"It's a fantastic weapon," said Cole, who has fired it. "It's very accurate. It's easy and lightweight to handle. I fired old M-16s in the military and this is so much better. "

Senior Trooper G.A. Crawley agreed. "This is the first time I've handled this," he told Cole as he cradled the weapon. "This is light."

The M-4 weighs 5.6 pounds and is 33 inches long. It has a retractable stock that shortens it to 29.8 inches. Like the M-16, the M-4 fires .223-caliber bullets.

Cole said the state police will use two 20-round quick-switch magazines attached to the weapon's magazine well. Two fully loaded magazines will increase the rifle's weight to about 7 pounds.

Massengill said the M-4s should arrive in several weeks. "There will be intense training to go with these firearms," he said, with training at Fort Pickett expected to be completed by early fall.

Massengill said the state police also are buying new gas masks for troopers, replacing an older version that is no longer approved by the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration.

[Hkmp5sd]

Who come when it is issued to a police officer, it's a Military-Style Semiautomatic Rifle , yet when it is owned by a civilian they call it an Assault Weapon? :banghead:

[El Tejon]

A "senior trooper" states that this is the first time he has handled this weapon. Oh, moi Bok!!!

Please, oh please, let them get training!:eek:

[PATH]

Armored vehicles. Where are the tanks?;)

[sm]

Hkmp5sd wrote:
"Who come when it is issued to a police officer, it's a Military-Style Semiautomatic Rifle , yet when it is owned by a civilian they call it an Assault Weapon?".
---
My thoughts exactly. this comes to mind though:

" All animals are created equal, some are more equal than others"

[moa]

This concept is really nothing new for some police agencies. Decades ago some police departments issued semi-automatic military style M1 carbines to their officers.

Back then I would think the M1 carbine was superior at distance than the revolvers and shotguns police used then. I have seen some pretty serious accuracy at reasonable distances with the carbine.

And, as I have read, the fully automatic M2 carbine is probably superior to the H&K MP5 that seems to be in vogue today. The M1's 110 grain ball ammo has superior muzzle velocity over similar 9MM MP5 rounds.

Anybody know what the barrel length, twist ratio, muzzle velocity and energy is on an M4?

[rock jock]

The semiautomatic version of the M-4, a compact derivative of the M-16, also costs less than the automatic version
WTH? I can't believe there is any cost differntial between an AR and an auto sear. Must be the $200 tax stamp.

[Blackhawk]

Please, oh please, let them get training!Not to worry TOO much, KSF.

The M16A1 was extremely easy to adapt to and fire accurately on semi auto.

[TheeBadOne]

Name
M4 Carbine

Finish
Black anodized receiver; black oxide barrel

Action
Safe/Semi/Auto, gas operated

Caliber
5.56mm (.223 Rem)

Capacity
30 rounds

Barrel Length
14.5" with Step Cut*

Overall Length
29.8"" to 33"

Rifling Twist
RH; 1 turn in 7"

Rifling Grooves
6

Trigger
Smooth

Front Sight
Adjustable

Rear Sight
Detachable carry handle with integrated M16A2 target style sight adjustable for windage/elevation to 600 meters.

Sight Radius
14.5"

Weight
5.65 lbs.(empty)

[DeltaElite]

OMG, the JBT's are getting rifles.... :neener:

Lucky bastages, I want one too.

[AZTOY]

Well crime just drop 20% in RICHMOND, Va.

[Beren]

So how many of these shiny new rifles are going to vanish from the trunks of Vrginia state police patrol vehicles? I can just see the headlines now:

"Crime wave strikes VSP; rifles stolen while cruisers parked in cafe lot."

[4v50 Gary]

Well, law enforcement has always had rifle around. Even Andy in Mayberry had a rifle rack in his office.

Unfortunately, this purchase is long after the Feds were practically giving them away to the locals at $10 apiece. Now they're paying close to $1k per gun (my buddy' small agency just picked up 4 M-4s (auto capable) made by Colt). If they had done it earlier, they could have spent a lot less $ and modified them by installing new uppers. Bureaucrats made the taxpayers pay more.

[DeltaElite]

Heck, I'll take a nice lever action rifle on my saddle. ;)
I just want something that has a more reasonable effective range than my Glock.

[JohnBT]

"Well crime just drop 20% in RICHMOND, Va."

Nope. The State Troopers spend most of their time on the Interstates.

Now they can enforce the big signs on the Interstates that say "Speed Limit Enforced by Aircraft" (or something similar, I quit reading them after seeing the first one)

"JBT's are getting rifles"

I am? Oh boy!

JBT

[Guy B. Meredith]

.357 caliber autos?

[modifiedbrowning]

Guy B., I'm assuming those are .357 Sig caliber semiautos.

[Bob Locke]

VSP has been issuing Sig P229's (I'm 99% sure) in .357 Sig for a handful of years.

True story: I was working p/t at Circuit City a few years ago. Customer of mine turned out to be a State Trooper (she showed me her VSP ID when I asked for a check purchase).

Bob: So, what sidearm are they issuing you guys these days?

Troopette: .357 Sig

Bob: I know the caliber, but what firearm.

Troopette: I'm not sure.

Bob: Tell me this: How do you strip it down to clean it?

Troopette: Clean it?

Bob: Yeah, you know, after you've been to the range to practice and stuff.

Troopette: What range?

Bob: Never mind.

She went on to tell me about how she had recently applied to the FBI. Probably got picked up, too. :rolleyes:

[TheEgg]

I am all in favor of the patrol rifle concept -- seems to me that the M4 is a good choice. The police need the capability that such a rifle offers. In addition, if the police use these EBR's, it may take some of the steam out of the 'anti assault weapon' side. (I know, I know, wishfull thinking -- but I can hope!)

[Coronach]

They probably went with semi-auto because as a LEO, unlike a soldier in a war-zone, you need to account for every bullet that leaves your barrel. I won't say that there is no need for full-auto capability in a patrol rifle, but there are probably VERY limited instances where it could be properly employed.

If my option was semi-auto rifle or no rifle at all, I'd choose semi-auto every time, thanks.

Mike

[Hkmp5sd]

They probably went with semi-auto because as a LEO

I think they went for the semi for the same reason the LA police department converted the M16's they received from the military to semi only, political correctness and public opinion.

[JohnBT]

They're $18 million short and still spending?

Our state budget has increased 40% over the past 4 years and agencies have already been cut up to 15%(the max the Gov can cut w/o General Assembly approval.) The General Assembly is now in session and agencies face more large cuts and consolidations in order to cover the remaining massive shortfall. Now this from the morning paper.

Remember, the state is still collecting enough tax revenue to cover the entire budget of just 4 years ago.

___________________

Jan 18, 2003

State police facing budget cutbacks
BY MARK BOWES
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER


An internal state police memo shows that Virginia's lead law enforcement agency must cut nearly $18 million from its budget over the next 18 months.

"There's some things that maybe you'd rather not do, but when you look at what we're facing in Virginia, it's not as painful as it could be," State Police Superintendent W. Gerald Massengill said this week in explaining the cutbacks.


Gov. Mark R. Warner ordered the cuts last month in the wake of the state budget shortfall. The agency was spared from the first round of cuts in mid-October.

The plan includes reducing funding for some anti-crime programs, abolishing about 15 positions, trimming the advertising budget for officer recruitment, establishing fees for operators of state motor-vehicle inspection stations and reducing firearms training from twice to once a year.

Massengill stressed that only two employees will lose their jobs. Both are civilians in the public information office. The others in positions being eliminated will be reassigned to other duties.

Perhaps the most interesting budget-tightening measure is a plan that allows eligible officers to retire, and be rehired at up to 70 percent of their former pay while they collect retirement. That could save the department an estimated $1 million in the coming fiscal year, Massengill said.

"This is an idea that came to me internally from the ranks," Massengill said. "It is something that I guess we're seeing in other industries throughout our country in today's work force."

Under the plan, which is still under study, those eligible up to the rank of first sergeant could retire and be hired back as wage employees but would not receive benefits.

"We felt that it would be really attractive to our people, in that we have in many instances troopers and special agents that retire in their early 50s, but are not really that anxious to stop work," Massengill said.

Conversely, Massengill said, the "state gets a certified police officer that's got the experience, skills, knowledge and abilities to serve the commonwealth, and at the same time at a pay rate where we save money."

The department has identified 30 to 35 employees who might take advantage of the program, Massengill said. But the program is temporarily on hold.

"Some questions have come up as to Internal Revenue Service reporting requirements, as to whether we can actually do this the way we got it proposed," Massengill said.

The department has identified cuts totaling $8,518,427 for the balance of fiscal 2002-2003, and $9,423,722 for fiscal 2003-2004, according to an internal memorandum circulated through the agency last week.

"I'm very comfortable with the fact that we can do what's in this memo, and not in any way impair the efficiency of the organization," Massengill said.

The department also has eliminated four of its civilian news media representatives. Two of those employees left before the announced budget cuts; the other two, stationed in Salem and Hampton Roads, will be furloughed Feb. 10.

Other budget saving measures include:

Decentralizing the department's fugitive program from the Bureau of Criminal Investigation to field offices. "The money we saved there was from abolishing the supervisory position that was in charge of that unit," Massengill said. "The agents that are looking for fugitives [were transferred] back . . . to our general investigative division."
Decentralizing personnel in the department's Drug Abuse Resistance Education program.
Reducing the number of new commercial vehicle enforcement officer positions at the state's 13 weigh stations.
"While all these reductions are painful and will result in the elimination of some popular programs, I feel confident that we can meet our reduction goals without having an adverse impact on our core service," Massengill said in his memorandum to staff.

Contact Mark Bowes at (804) 649-6450 or mbowes@timesdispatch.com


This story can be found at: http://www.timesdispatch.com/frontpage/MGBCS1DX2BD.html

______________

I hope the agency I work for will let me retire with 29 years and then keep working for 70% of what I make.

Dream on.

JBT

[The Rock]

$867 a rifle? For a half-plastic Colt! Geezus!

The state is short of money and spending it on rifles.

The $200 NFA stamp is not an issue with a LEO agency. They could get select fire version from Bushmaster for less! And they will actually work!

Even if it is 'Terrorism' $$$, the state should spend it on its gaping hole of a budget.

BL: Somehow, I'm not surprised the troopette didn't have a clue...

TR

[Hkmp5sd]

They could get select fire version from Bushmaster for less!

No way on earth would they buy select fire M4's. Can you imagine the uproar the first time one of them hit a bystander while on full auto?

My local sheriff's department got rid of all their Ruger AC556's (and they don't even look like "machineguns") because of the potential political fallout.

[DeltaElite]

I see no use for full auto in a patrol rifle.
What is needed is a precision shot capability, not alot of bullets all at once, IMHO.

[Zander]

Shucks, they could have bought essentially the same rifle for $400...but it wouldn't have been quite so "tactical".

There is apparently no end to the incompetence of gov't agencies; nor the desire of civilian LE depts. to militarize their forces.