HK LEM trigger?


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badbadtz560
February 17, 2009, 11:09 PM
Hate to beat a dead horse, but can someone compare it to a sig DA on a DA/SA system? it seems like the spec weights might be similar? I heard teh LEm on HK are not like glocks/xds, but rather more like a conventional DA... so how does it compare to a sig's smooth DA on a da/sa system?

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KNOCKDOWN
February 18, 2009, 12:04 AM
You would be better off comparing the Sig DAK trigger with the HK LEM trigger. Both are considered "cop" triggers. Long consistent pull. Not friendly for double taps IMHO.

Killermonkey21
February 18, 2009, 01:55 AM
I agree with knockdown. I had a HK USP 9mm compact with the LEM trigger. Good for cops, as it eliminates the change between DA and SA on trigger pulls, like the M9/92FS.

I did not like it, as I received a bit of trigger slap from mine, but to each their own. I prefer either a Glock/XD trigger (shorter, stronger pull) myself. Go to a deal and ask to dry fire a LEM model to get the idea. Its kind of hard to explain on here, I'd imagine.

CPshooter
February 18, 2009, 03:01 AM
I have a P2000sk w/ LEM trigger and I really like it. The LEM trigger seems to be "hit or miss" more than anything. Some like it and some hate it. Most people that don't like it don't give themselves enough time to adjust to it. It offers a really unique trigger pull, but one that I feel is absolutely perfect for concealed carry.

Essentially, it's a consistent and lightweight DA pull, but with a shorter reset for quick follow-up shots. Once you rack the slide, the main hammer spring becomes partially cocked..kind of like how a Glock's striker is partially cocked. The difference with the LEM is that the hammer still remains fully forward, which is why most people consider DAO pistols to be so safe. You can verify that the hammer isn't moving back when holstering your gun, ensuring that your trigger isn't caught on anything. (Glocks are notorious for ADs when holstering because the trigger safety does nothing once something is in front of the trigger, like a T-shirt or draw string for example.) When you can see the hammer, you can verify nothing is snagging on the trigger.

Anyways, once an LEM equipped H&K is cocked the DA trigger becomes much lighter. The beginning of the pull is rather light, and it gets a little more stiff towards the end of the pull. The end of the pull can be described as a SA-like pull. Once the shot goes off and the gun cocks itself, loading in another round, the LEM trigger doesn't need to be fully released like a traditional DAO pistol. The reset is only slightly longer than that of a Glock trigger, and about the same as a factory XD trigger.

The LEM trigger also offers one more advantage. If you pull the trigger and a round fails to go off, you can pull the trigger again for another attempt at igniting the primer on the round. However, this trigger pull will default back to a full-weight, revolver-like 12 lb. DAO pull identical to the DA pull on a DA/SA H&K.

So to put it simply:

Unless you get a dud round that doesn't ignite, you will get a consistent, lightweight pull every time. Basically a SA-like pull but w/ a long take-up while the hammer comes back. Here is a VERY helpful Youtube video showing exactly how the LEM trigger works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVMJ1IhiEWY

Also, for the trigger variants for P2000 pistols:

V2 = "factory" LEM pull (7.5-8.5lbs)
V1 = "light" LEM pull (4.5-5.5lbs)
V4 = "medium" LEM pull (6-7lbs)
V3 = traditional DA/SA pull with decock button next to hammer

If you buy a P2000 w/ factory V2 (LEM) trigger, you can change it to any of the other LEM variants by changing out 2 springs.

badbadtz560
February 18, 2009, 10:11 AM
sounds interesting... thanks for the info cpshooter.. maybe I'll practice the DA on my hk45c before buyin an LEM model.. only had experience shooting SA so far.

one more question.. since the p2000sk is a two finger shooter.. is there anyway to add on something so that I can extend the grip for my pinky? Is it possible to get a magazine for it? or would I be able to install somethin on the end of the grip?

Storm
February 18, 2009, 10:23 AM
You would be better off comparing the Sig DAK trigger with the HK LEM trigger. Both are considered "cop" triggers. Long consistent pull. Not friendly for double taps IMHO.

I would agree with that, but disagree baed on my experinces with the last part, at least as to the DAK trigger.

I work with an HK P2000SK LEM and SIG 226 DAK, and they are definitely more comparable. However, I find the DAK trigger to be very friendly for double taps. The DAK trigger has two reset points, one just short distance from full pull and the second back towards the trigger at rest. That first trigger reset point, if used properly, allows for an exceptionally quick second shot, a double tap. If you use the first trigger reset point it's almost a natural double tap.

I'm really just starting to work with the LEM and DAK triggers but I can see a time when I come to depend on those two triggers the most.

That said, I'm one of those folks who truly values the Walther P99 QA trigger, so that's where I'm coming from.

BTW, double action variant triggers usually take a good amount of work to master (I shoot a lot of DA) but the P2000SK LEM .40, for me at least, shot point of aim right from he git-go. Finger placement on the trigger is often critical for POA with a DA semi-auto.

usp9
February 18, 2009, 10:35 AM
That said, I'm one of those folks who truly values the Walther P99 QA trigger, so that's where I'm coming from.


Me too, the QA is an under appreciated trigger. Of the three triggers discussed the QA may be the best. That said, the LEM, DAK and QA are all excellent triggers, maybe the best available, for that which they are intended.

badbadtz560
February 18, 2009, 10:38 AM
ya.. hard for me to compare an LEM to a sig DAK or a DAK to an LEM =\ maybe i'll have the opportunity to shoot one later on hehe

until then, does anyone know how to extend grips on a g26 or p2000sk so that the pinkky stays on comfortably? I once heard jet funnel, but those don't look like they add much comfortable space

prelaw09
February 18, 2009, 10:54 AM
Me too, the QA is an under appreciated trigger. Of the three triggers discussed the QA may be the best. That said, the LEM, DAK and QA are all excellent triggers, maybe the best available, for that which they are intended.

+1 to that-

I'm a fairly new shooter, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I was very surprised by the QA trigger (in the good way). Looking at the gun I thought that there was no way that it would shoot well, but the whole mag went into the X ring at 7yds (hey, noobie here). each time I pulled the trigger, the gun fired- and before I knew it, another hit in the X ring. all I could do was look down at the gun, then back at the target, and say WOW!

Storm
February 18, 2009, 12:47 PM
until then, does anyone know how to extend grips on a g26 or p2000sk so that the pinkky stays on comfortably? I once heard jet funnel, but those don't look like they add much comfortable space

If you have the mag with the rubber floor plate that extends down like it would be for a pinly rather than the flat floor plate that seems to be about it. You could go with a USP Compact mag and get the grip adapter, but that's adding a lot of length.

I have found that with my P2000SK with the pinky floorplate that my pinky doesn't really fit on it other than partially, and not much at that. I shoot the gun with my pinky wrapped under the mag. I have found this to really work for me adding what I think is more vertical stability for shot placement. I was going to get some flat floor plate to try and make this grip easier, but I have found that the angle of the pinky floor plate positions my pinky naturally at the right spot on the bottom.

jocko
February 18, 2009, 01:35 PM
The LEM sounds alot like the Para LDA trigger??

badbadtz560
February 18, 2009, 09:23 PM
Storm.. what is this grip adapter you speak of ;) and how much length does it add. I just want to be able to comfortably seat my pinky as a regular gun incase I cannot shoot w/o my pinky.

CPshooter
February 18, 2009, 09:37 PM
The LEM sounds alot like the Para LDA trigger??Sorta..

It's similar in that the LEM is also a lightweight DA pull. But it's different because the LEM "stacks" towards the end of the pull and has a very SA-like break to it. I'd say the LEM feels more like a Glock trigger but with a little more take-up at the start of the pull. The LDA is more of a traditional DAO pull from my experience with it. I remember playing with one and it had a very smooth and light pull, but it was consistent all the way through and had a "surprise break" like a DAO revolver or a Kahr trigger. It was a decent trigger. However, I don't think the LDA system offers a short trigger reset. I could be wrong though.

Storm.. what is this grip adapter you speak of and how much length does it add. I just want to be able to comfortably seat my pinky as a regular gun incase I cannot shoot w/o my pinky.It's called an X-grip. It simulates a regular P2000 grip on your P2000sk by putting the X-grip sleeve between a regular P2000 mag floor plate and your P2000sk grip. Here's a pic I found on google images:

http://photos.gafana.com/photos/0426252180996531796621.share.jpg

I don't like 'em. Maybe if you're going to carry a spare mag on your belt, but otherwise I'd pass. No use in practicing with a full grip if you will be carrying with a short grip. And if you want a full grip, just get a regular P2000 since the barrel is only like .3" longer than the P2000sk. I happen to like my P2000sk's short grip for IWB carry. My flat mag floor plates should be in any day. That should make it a little better for me since I don't like the factory "extended" H&K floor plates. Shooting without your pinky on the front strap of the gun isn't hard at all...especially with 9mm. Tuck it under the grip and you will be surprised how secure your grip is on the gun. Obviously, a full grip is always better but for concealed carry having a short grip on your gun makes sense.

badbadtz560
February 18, 2009, 09:53 PM
well.. my idea is that the p2ksk will give me options ;) and if those options allow it to feel like a p2k.. then it's better b/c a p2k can't act like a p2ksk.

So.. what I'm getting at is.. this kinda shows the p2ksk can be EXACTLY like a regular p2k? or is there something bad about the x-grip?

The dealers that are nearby do not do HK whatsoever.. They'll order'em for you.. but they don't carry stock. so I'm completely relying upon my love for my hk45c and online info to decide my next 9mm purchase :D

CPshooter
February 18, 2009, 10:00 PM
So.. what I'm getting at is.. this kinda shows the p2ksk can be EXACTLY like a regular p2k? or is there something bad about the x-grip?I don't have any experience with the X-grip but from what I've been reading online people love 'em. I don't see there being any real "issues" with them.

Order from Clyde's Armory (www.policeguns.com). They have a 5% off sale on all H&Ks right now. Plus all their H&Ks are the "LEO" set-up with meprolight night sights and 3 magazines instead of 2. I got my P2000sk for $789 OTD w/ shipping (plus $25 to my FFL dealer for the transfer).

*edit* Clyde's website is down right now...dunno what's up.

badbadtz560
February 18, 2009, 10:35 PM
bleh.. I saw that actually.. being a cheap asian, i decline the deal b/c of 7% sales tax.. which is like totally 50 bux lol and shipping is 30 bux + 3% credit card charge. I'll wait till things calm down even though it's a great deal. I'd rather buy from CDNN w/ their prices.

paying 900 bux for a p2000sk w/ night sights is too much.. considering I paid a lot less for my hk45c

Storm
February 19, 2009, 09:43 AM
I've never used the X-Grip in particular, but do use a grip adapter for my Walther P99 Compact and SW99. The only downside that I can see is that some grip adapters may pinch (I'm not saying that the X-Grip does) and with the longer grip it can change how the gun handles. I use the extended mags strictly as on of my two back-up mags. If I've gone through two standard mags I sure as heck will want a third mag with even more capacity.

Erik
February 19, 2009, 01:23 PM
"HK LEM trigger?"

LEMs, unlike traditional DAOs, do not have one trigger pull I'll take a shot at explaining:

There are two hammer positions, and two trigger positions, and three possible trigger pulls.

The LEM hammer is a two-piece unit with an internal cocking piece separate from the external hammer.

Insert magazine and chamber a round. The hammer is in the rebound position (slightly extended from the frame) with the trigger all the way forward. From here the shooter encounters a two-trigger pull: a light stage of appromimately 3-3.5 pounds followed by a heavier one of either 4.5-5.5 pounds or 7.5-8.5 pounds depending on the variant. (Both distances are approximately a half and inch with the first one slightly longer.)

A shot is fired, which cycles the slide. As the trigger is allowed forward it resets at approximately half way forward; there will be an audible click. If the shooter decides to pull the trigger at this stage a half length, consistent trigger pull of either 4.5-5.5 pounds or 7.5-8.5 pounds depending on cvariant is met.

If the shooter returns the trigger all the way forward the full length, two-stage trigger pull is encountered. (See above.)

If the shooter drops the hammer on a round and it fails to fire, the hammer will remain all the way forward. The "second strike" trigger pull is a full length, consistent trigger pull of approximately 12 pounds.

Practically speaking, the shooter has to decide whether to work the reset or not. Beginners usually opt not to, experienced shooters usually opt to do so. That allows room to "grow" into the gun, by the way, and I've seen people do so nicely. The explanation of the LEM makes it sound much more complicated that it is for the end user.

(Quoted weights are to spec. Some report slight variances.)

Hope that helps - E

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