Glock vs Springfield XD vs Steyr vs H&K.


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AUTIGER04
October 2, 2003, 10:19 PM
Ok, Im planning to buy a pistol in the distant future. Within a year.:D
I have never owned any of the guns listed and I have no clue, what one has over the other. But I have read and heard Glock stories. (100,000+) rounds. And I have seen and read about Glock torture test. I have my mind set on the Glock. But, I will give the others a chance if anyone can convince me to do so. Please feel free to inform me of your opinion. I looking for a Small to medium frame, reliable, accurate and the gun that should keep me happy for a long time. :D What advantages does one have over the other?Thanks for any info.
$400-$600 range.
Glock
Steyr
H&K
Springfield XD

ps I like Hi Cap Mags.:D

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George Hill
October 2, 2003, 10:38 PM
XD.

Hk Paul
October 2, 2003, 10:45 PM
All of them are great guns. Ive shot them all.
They are all more accruate than most people shooting them.
Go with what fits your hand.
The better it fits the better you will shoot it, IMHO.

There is a reason why the HK is alot of money. Shoot it and youll see.
If you want more information why, check out www.hkpro.com

Oracle
October 2, 2003, 11:10 PM
The HK costs more, and has the crappiest trigger of them all. There is a reason that people don't use HK's in competition shooting.

Go with a Glock or XD, you won't be sorry. If you're concerned about corrosion, go with the Glock, it's finish is more robust.

Shake
October 2, 2003, 11:43 PM
It isn't as if the GLOCK wins any awards for its trigger either. . .

Despite its crappy trigger, I shoot the H&K much better than the GLOCK and if I had to choose one for accuracy out of the box, I'd go H&K every time. Can't say much about the other two choices. I have zero experience with them.

The H&K will be the most expensive of them all and you'll be lucky to find one under $600.

Shake

synoptic
October 2, 2003, 11:50 PM
It seems everyone with a Steyr loves it. I have an M9 and haven't had a problem yet with the gun. You can even find it under your price range, between $300 and $400. Unfortunately no Hi caps for this one, but with what you're saving you can buy a few more mags. Go with what fits your hand though, just odn't let yourself get caught up in all the hype of the Glock. Not that it's a bad pistol, but I don't believe the other 3 choices are any worse than it.

10-Ring
October 3, 2003, 12:12 AM
I would normally recommend the USP. It's everything you're looking for and then some ;)
I've seen all the guns you've mentioned break...usually from abuse or bad ammo. All things considered, I like the versatility, ruggedness & accuracy of the HK :cool:

LeonCarr
October 3, 2003, 12:53 AM
IMNSHO anything with HK on it is over-priced and over-rated.

XD - still unproven at this point in time, looks promising but only time will tell. Too many external switches and stuff for my tastes.

Steyr - I shot one and I was unimpressed. Did not feel as good as a Glock, and was not as accurate. Did not care for the triangle sight thingy.

Glock - Read the Signature. No other gun has been so loved or so hated, so torture tested, or shot so many times. I think the other gun compaines should just admit defeat :).

Shiner Bock - Drink one, you'll understand.
Glock - Shoot one, you'll understand.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Black Snowman
October 3, 2003, 12:59 AM
I've have a Glock 24P. I've had an HK USP .40C and I've shot the full size. Haven't had a chance to test drive an XD or Steyr yet.

Between the Glocks and the HKs I think Glock wins bang for the buck but the HK is really nice shooter. However my Glock came with the 3.5 lbs trigger and I slicked it up a little. Both HKs I've shot had some trigger work done to them so were very good.

Between putting on good sights, price new, an extended slide release, and 2 high-cap mags I have about $1000 in my Glock. The full size HK with the trigger job was in the same ballpark. Both the full size HK and the Glock clocked over 6000k rounds and going strong with no broken parts and just finish wear to show for it.

So my personal experiences are a bit skewed. Whenever possible try the guns before you buy. Make friends who have them or find somewhere that rents them. How they work for YOU is the most important thing.

Any special considerations? CCW, target shooting, competition, amphibious assault?

mrapathy2000
October 3, 2003, 03:26 AM
hk is pricey would go with sig over hk get more for your monies worth.

steyr is great pistol at a good price that is getting worse buy while price is good.

glock is good though if I ever get one it will get a manual safety install. otherwise keep the finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot or dont care if you lose a toe or worse freedom.

XD's are good guns though they have an issue with rust. its hit and miss even the stainless ones are rusting. not from lack of care either.

not alot of hicap mags in .40 accept glock though hk has some though not cheap if you can find any. 9mm you can take almost any .40 mag and stuff more than 10 rounds into it. works for steyr and xd. steyr can use sigma hicaps. hicap issue wont matter much in less than a year if ban goes and nothing takes it place and state allows it.

glock hicaps are pricey but are availible with little searching.

New_comer
October 3, 2003, 06:27 AM
Of the guns listed, HK is a class of its own.


Glock, XD, Steyr are all DAO's, striker fired, with trigger 'safety' :rolleyes:


HK's USPc is hammer fired, with options for manual safety (left or right) ala-1911, with decocker or DAO variants.


Each claim toughness as a trait. HK USP's proof could be seen at www.streetpro.com/usp/torture.html ; don't know about the others...


Depends on your preference as to manual of arms. You like light triggered DAO's, then the USP is not for you.


Other than that, HK's USP compact may prove to be the best of the lot. :cool:

Marko Kloos
October 3, 2003, 06:42 AM
Glock - Read the Signature. No other gun has been so loved or so hated, so torture tested, or shot so many times.

For a second there, I thought you were describing the M1911. After all, it has a 70-year head start and a dozen wars more under its belt.

:D

caz223
October 3, 2003, 06:46 AM
What caliber?

care-less
October 3, 2003, 08:05 AM
Buy 3 HiPoints for that price range!!! Alright, alright, just kidding. Glock is probably your best bet but I do like the HK's. Steyr feels really good in the hand, XD worries me a little. Slide rides only on one center mounted point, in the rear, the steel slide rides on plastic!!!!!

AUTIGER04
October 3, 2003, 08:34 AM
9mm or 40S&W it doesnt matter. I forgot about the SIG :eek:

CZ100B
October 3, 2003, 09:38 AM
I have a Glock and a Steyr, and the Steyr is just a better built gun, hands down. The Steyr DAO trigger is so short and light it might as well be SA, and FYI the Steyr also has a manual safety that can be operated from either side.

I just wish the $15 12round mags at CDNN were available to the peasants...

Jeremy

Flashpoint
October 3, 2003, 09:59 AM
If I were looking for a DA/SA I would buy the Sig pro over the HK. As nice as the HKs are they seem a little overrated. If not mistaken I think the reason for there price being so much more than the others is because of importation. I really like my Sig p239 it's a great shooter and I would think it's polymer brother would be just as good.

As for as striker fired guns go I couldn't recommend the XD, I have shot Glocks in the 19 and 22 models. I liked the 19 it felt good and shot well, but I didn't care for the 22. I choose the Steyr M40 it felt the best in my hand of any gun I have ever picked up, I liked the optional manual safety and ability to lock the trigger up, the workmanship rivals my Sig, and I love the sites. I was at the gun shop a few months back and a guy was showing off his new trigger job on his Glock, it felt real close to the factory trigger in my Steyr.

GlocksRock
October 3, 2003, 12:48 PM
I say go with the Glock, or XD.

mephisto
October 3, 2003, 12:58 PM
1. STEYR
2. HK
3. XD
9. GLOCK

LeonCarr
October 3, 2003, 01:49 PM
Hey Marko,

I would put a Glock up against a 1911 anyday of the week and twice on Sunday. I already know which one would choke first :).

To stay on thread, I would put a Glock up against an HK, Steyr, or XD anyday of the week also :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

AUTIGER04
October 3, 2003, 01:53 PM
Like I said "I had my mind set on the Glock".
Thanks for the info.

H&K is next on list.;)

Quack
October 3, 2003, 02:03 PM
what i have or had (polymer), how i rank them and what i paid:
1. Glock $350 (LNIB G17) - $575 (NIB G24) (G17's, 19, 23, 24, 27, 34, 36) simple, proven, in-expensive, great aftermarket support, easy to work on. sold the 19, 23 and 27 because the compact and sub comp frames didn't feel right in my hands. sold the G36 to get my 3rd gen G24 :D
2. XD9 sub ($469 w/XML) - i've resisted getting an XD for almost a year now. just picked this one up last weekend and it's a great sub gun. i think that the XD's are probably the best bang for the buck. the grip has just enough room for me to get 1/2 of my pinky on, which couldn't be done on the G27 w/o a grip extension. actually might pick up a XD9 today that i saw at one of the shops yesterday. the XD9's will take the XD40 10rd mags and hold 15rds of 9mm. mags are about $23 each. you can also modify the 92f mags to work as well.
3. P99 ($475) nice and accurate. i liked the trigger almost as much as the glock, until i got the XD. hi-caps are expensive, so i just have a bunch of 10rders.
4. HK USP9F ($600 w/ Trijicons, leather holster & mag holster, 4 hicaps) found a deal on it, but just didn't like the trigger. also parts weren't as in-expensive and available as the glock.

Smurfslayer
October 3, 2003, 02:05 PM
Quite an interesting divergence of opinion...

Please bear in mind that these comments are all opinion, and that ultimately, you must make the decision for the firearm which suits YOU best. With that said, I have shot the USP, Glock & XD, and in my opinion, first, you didn't mention the walther p99, a viable competitor..

I have not shot the p99 live, but dry fired only.
I carry a USP in the "L.E.M. trigger" configuration.

From a parts, aftermarket support, availability of high caps - advantage Glock.

I have shot numerous Glocks, and liked only one, a police trade in that the trigger was actually not a burden to me. I prefer traditional double action pistols... At least until the H&K L.E.M. trigger ... I've not been able to shoot most glocks, or the XD as consistently because to me the trigger always seems to feel vague, scratchy or gritty, and inconsistent. The one example - glock - I liked was really consistent & very accurate

When discussing Glock, I like to remind Glock-o-philes that more than one department issued glocks has had an entire inventory replaced by the factory at far less than 30k rounds, DC police has had them mass replaced twice. Let us not forget about the infamous frame recall as well.

Ergonomically - excluding H&K's ridiculously overpriced p2000, I think the P99 is the top or close to top pick. I prefer H&K USP's slide release, it's big & tough to have trouble with.

Accuracy & reliability - I think you'll find that this is practically a wash. I know at least Glock & HK caution / warn against reloads, or lead ammo, however, I know at least the USP explicitly states that you may shoot +p or +p+ ammo from the USP. These pistols themselves are all very close, how well YOU can shoot them is something that only you will be able to answer.

WRT standard caps ( what you mistakenly referred to as "hi caps" ). At least Walther & the XD can use modified Beretta mags for the 92 in 9mm's and they're dirt cheap. USP standard caps are pretty pricey - 50-70 smackers for 9mm....

If you are not familiar with the USP L.E.M. trigger, it's essentially a low weight trigger pull, double action only, with a ridiculously short trigger reset. Possibly the best I've ever shot. The hammer spring is "pre cocked" so the pull weight is very consistent. If you release the trigger all the way forward, negating the short reset feature, the trigger pull weight is still as light, it's just longer. You may also "second strike" a non firing round...

HTH

Andrew Wyatt
October 3, 2003, 02:35 PM
just for the record, I've seen more glocks take a dump under sandy conditions in matches than 1911s. also, the people who usually win the SOF/Wc3gun/swat 3 gun shoot 1911s.

Brad Johnson
October 3, 2003, 02:43 PM
I have an XD that's right at the 9000 round mark with no problems.

I HAD a Glock that also went 10,000+ rounds with no problems, but the XD fit my hand better and pointed more naturally.

No experience with the HK

Brad

Gary G23
October 3, 2003, 04:49 PM
I have owned all four brands. I would recommend the XD.

ront
October 3, 2003, 07:01 PM
I have a Glock G27 and a Steyr S40. Love them both!

Ron

Brasso
October 3, 2003, 07:12 PM
I've owned them all at one time or another. For a full size or medium to full size gun I would have to say the P99 beats the living hell out of the other choices. It's bloody.

For a mid to compact, I believe the HK is the winner. The trigger isn't on par with a Sig or Beretta, but its not bad. The 3.5lb glock trigger is better, but not the standard 5lb.

The sigpro probably has the best trigger of the bunch, but it doesn't make a very good ccw piece. It's very blocky and thick.

Opinions and mileage may vary.

michiganfan
October 3, 2003, 08:15 PM
Got a Glock, two in fact. I have an HK USP 40 Compact and a Steyr 357 Sig . For me the Steyr is the most accurate. I love the triangular sights. The HK has the best action and trigger. It is as smooth as silk, but it is a Glock that i carry day in and day out. I think its a reliability thing and ease of use thing. The Steyr has been ammo picky. The HK has an external safety. I like the Glock point and shoot. Nothing to flip off.

Ford
October 3, 2003, 09:25 PM
I would put a Glock up against a 1911 anyday of the week and twice on Sunday. I already know which one would choke first .

Mr. LeonCarr

Please step away from the crack pipe.

If your Glock shoots better than one of my Wilson then I will buy you another Glock.

C'mon get real people.

By the way, go with the XD.

Dorian
October 4, 2003, 12:37 AM
I would go with a USP or a SIG.

If you're looking for dependability, reliability and accuracy all in one package, I wholeheartedly believe that these two pistol makers are on the top.

The USP is modeled after the most rigorously tested pistol in existence, The MK-23 Mod O.

The only thing I've found to be a bit rough on the HK is the trigger pull, but that's something you get used too.

The Sig comes in at a close second in my book for reliability and dependability.

These two pistols have both been put through all the standard military torture tests which include, but are certianly not limited, to the environment tests.

The SIG is currently issued to several militaries in the world, along with the USP(the P8 and P10 in the German army).

Also, I trust my life on a daily basis to a USP .45 Compact.

mr. e
October 4, 2003, 09:33 AM
Without having the capability to do multiple 10K round torture tests (if anyone wants me to do them email me and I'll give you my address so you can ship the ammo), I can compare the USP 9 and 40 to various SIGs, CZs, Browning HPs, Berettas, a Kahr K9, & a Walther P99.

My opinion is that it is a good all around gun although it isn't the best in any one category.
- It's light enough to carry but too big for concealment (P99 is better)

- It's out of the box accuracy is good but no better than an out of the box CZ (which is much cheaper)

- Reliability is no better than any one of the others I mentioned (which are all very good.)

- Trigger is way worse than P series SIGs or the Kahr, but certainly lighter than the Browning.

- Ergonomically (Grip and reach to pull trigger) much better than the Beretta, but not as nice as the Browning or CZ or Walther or SIG 229

I don't run over my guns with trucks or soak them in water for months on end, so I can't give you any opinion there.

Overall, a nice pistol but not my favorite in any one category. One last measure of reliability... My USP 40 outfitted with a laser sight is my nightstand gun. Size isn't an issue, and I know it will go bang when I need it to.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

harrydog
October 4, 2003, 10:29 AM
LeonCarr said:
"I would put a Glock up against a 1911 anyday of the week and twice on Sunday. I already know which one would choke first."



Read what Larry Vickers had to say about some of these guns. If you don't already know, he's one of the most highly respected pistolsmiths out there and is also an active member of the military (spec. ops.) currently deployed overseas. He's seen firsthand what works and what doesn't.

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3132&highlight=Vickers

HSMITH
October 4, 2003, 11:54 AM
I have shot the USP's and abso-freakin-lutely HATED them. I have shot the full sized, mid size and compact ones. I shot 9mm's, 40's and 45's. If I count correctly I have tried 9 different HK's USP style pistols. You could not GIVE me one. The grip shape and the trigger just blew it for me. THE single worst value in all of guns IMO.

The XD feels good in the hand but accuracy and reliability are not that good in the SINGLE sole lonely XD I have had experience with......

I have some Glocks, a real love/hate thing. I hate the grip shape, triggers are OK if you know what to do with them though. Accuracy is FAR from a bullseye gun but for a defensive pistol they are usually quite good. The stupid crappy plastic junk runs like nothing else on the planet though, they just plain WORK. You can COUNT ON your Glock.

I have shot one lonely single sample of the Steyr too. I really liked it. Accuracy was good and it ran flawlessly for a gaggle of shooters playing with it. It took nearly a case of ammo that day too, S&B and some Wolf machinegun fodder. The Steyr might out-Glock a Glock but you can't get hi-caps or parts or accessories. Three strikes and it is out.

It is all PERSONAL opinion. What feels right and shoots well in my hand may or may not be the same for you. You have to try them and find out what makes you smile. The HK guys are rabidly in love with their guns as are the Glock guys. I very much prefer a 1911 for shooting and feel that they are the ultimate in blasters when well executed, but as much as I hate to admit it when I hear a bump in the night I grab a Glock.

New_comer
October 4, 2003, 12:45 PM
WOW!!


I gotta save that thread! :D


http://www.1911forum.com/forums/sho...ghlight=Vickers

LeonCarr
October 4, 2003, 01:17 PM
I try not to ignite controversy, but it just happens :).

That is a good thread from the 1911 forum. But notice that he picked the dog of all the Glocks (21s are the most trouble prone). History also tells us that the original caliber the gun is produced in is usually the most trouble free (.45 in the 1911, 9mm in the Glock, etc.). All guns will fail at some point, they are designed and manufactured by humans. I have never had good luck with 1911s being reliable, and maybe that is just me. Every Glock that I have had (including one 21) ran like a top out of the box. I guess my main problem with a 1911 is even today with improved manufacturing and improved technology, you pay big money for a 1911, and you still have to pour money into it to make it shoot right (high dollar guns are usually better in this regard, but not always) and what good is a gun guaranteed to shoot an inch at 25 yards when it malfunctions? Reliability is paramount for me, and Glocks are the present king of the hill.

To stay on thread, I still pick the Glock over the XD, the HK, and the Steyr :).


Just my .02 (or maybe .10),
LeonCarr

AUTIGER04
October 4, 2003, 01:28 PM
Im buying the Glock.
Thanks for the info.

War Eagle! To all you Tenn Vol Fans.

mrapathy2000
October 4, 2003, 03:30 PM
HSMITH wrote:The Steyr might out-Glock a Glock but you can't get hi-caps or parts or accessories. Three strikes and it is out.



you cant get hicaps how about smith and wesson sigma hicaps they work fine with little modding and less than a year before ban is gone who cares anymore. as far as parts go they are availible from diamond trail shooter supply in montezuma iowa not far from brownells if they dont have the parts go through odells engineering in canada which has plenty of parts and magazines though barrels take little more time so will frame not sure bout slide. they have conversion barrels from .40S&W to .357sig and 9mm.

accessories not alot of them then again pistol is relatively new compared to everything else coming out in 99 and not being super popular due to a high initial price of $600.
plenty of folks have holsters availible if you want laser or flashlight email GG&G in arizona asking for an adapter from weaver/picatinny rail to steyrs rail. nights sights and other sights are availible for steyr though no trapazoidal night sights that I know of.

besides last I looked drop free glock hicaps ran nearly $100 in glock 23 thats what 3 whooping rounds with S&W sigma you can get 15 round magazines in .40S&W +1 in the chamber and fits flush with the steyr.

harrydog
October 4, 2003, 03:35 PM
Agreed that 1911's usually cost more, sometimes much more than the plastic guns. The cost to manufacture them is much higher. That's the price of addmission into the world of 1911's. Also agree that the lower end 1911's can sometimes be unreliable. But the good ones are as reliable as anything else.
I've got two 1911's that have been 100% reliable so far. I've also owned several Glocks and two USP's and while very reliable overall, they did have an occasional FTF/FTE. And they simply didn't come close to the accurracy of the 1911. My 1911's are a joy to shoot.
To say that Glocks are superior to anything else out there is kind of a mindless thing to say. Reminds me of a brain-washed cult member chanting the mantra. There are plenty of great firearms out there and all of them have their weak points.
Between my Glocks and my HKs I'd give the nod to the HKs in terms of accuracy and quality. They're just better built than the Glocks and I found them to have less felt recoil. Never tried any of the other polymer guns.
I still like Glocks and HKs by the way. I just like quality 1911's much more.

Dain Bramage
October 4, 2003, 03:39 PM
Way to go AUTIGER04!

All the partisans came out to cheer for their camps, but no one gave the best advice: shoot everything first, and then decide.

I was in the market for a compact .45 a few years ago, and I rented guns multiple times at three different local ranges. I learned a few things from practical experience that I did not expect (like I hate Para Ords). I actually was a Glock-basher back then, but I ended up buying a G30! The only gun I liked better was a full-size Kimber that I rented for comparison. In the size range I was looking for, the HK USP compact was a distant second.

At the time, polymer guns were not as prevalent (pre-XD and Steyr availability in my area), but I shot a P99 in .40, and did not like it as much.

The G30 has been great for me. Bottom line is; you won't know what fits you until you try it.

jercamp45
October 4, 2003, 04:36 PM
And, as expected everyone claimed their fave was best! A few objective ones in there too!
Mr Dain Bramage says shoot 'em all, to see what works for you! Fir is a very important factor in personal defensive firearms.
All guns listed are reasonably realiable. Though I very much enjoyed Larry Vicker's thread(and thank him for participating in Sodamn Insane's Desert Buttkicking!), most of us are not going into that nasty of an environment.
Glocks seem to be pretty good handguns, mainly because they are simple...the new S&W M10 for the Police forces of the world! I understand the PD's of both Fairbanks and Anchorage, Alaska issue G21's!
I have owned two G30's(and shot most of the other models). One did jam alot! Cleaned, oiled, quality ammo.....it no work good!
If the Glock fits you, Fine! I never quite liked the 'feel' nor the thickness.
A cousin owns four USP's, so I got to shoot them abit. All they hype of it being the 'new and improved' 1911..well, it did not feel like one to me! I was not fond of the trigger, though it's quality, reliability and durability should be fine. It is just gonna cost you.
I have not tried the Steyr, cause it only come in 'little' bullets(after reliability comes Power). And I had never played with a HD for the same reason, though a Police Surgeon/ER Doc/Tactical Medicine/SWAT friend loves his HD 40(he gets free ammo!).
But in reflecting on my small arsenal....they are all 1911's. And none of them give me any problems. Nor have the 25 or so 1911's I have shot the crap out of the last 27 years(well, there was the OLD AutoOrdnance that was a POS!!).
The Glock is a general duty gun, the USP is a tad finer(if it fits), the unmentioned Sigs are very nice(though I do not know about extreme climate abuse). The HD and Steyr are too new.
But that old 1911? Geez, that is the gun the pro's pack when they go into harms way...so much history, and conflict...92 years old and still it is in the high tech rigs of those that ride the edge.
You can play with the Polypistols wonder zapper, maybe one day you'll understand the mentality and get a real pistol, a 1911!!
Flame suit donned!!!
Jercamp45

Sactown
October 4, 2003, 05:51 PM
I have a USP 40 and a Sig225 and Sig220ST. Don't own a Glock or an XD. Tried Glocks, but they werent' for me. XD, haven't had a chance to shoot one, only dry fired in the store. The XD grip angle seemed more natural to me and I felt the trigger was better, less of that sproing feeling. I think the USP is overpriced for what you get. The USP trigger is the worst out of all the handguns I own. The DA pull is extremely heavy. With your choices listed, I'd have to go with a SIG. You might also want to consider a CZ. They are accurate, reliable, fit most hands like a glove, inexpensive, and they have 15rnd magazines available. Go out to a range and tryout whatever you're interested in. I was going to get a Glock 34 but I tried it twice and found it wasn't for me.

George Hill
October 4, 2003, 06:08 PM
I see that LeonCarr is the Glock Apologist on duty for this thread...


Id put an XD up against a Glock any time.

That and I've yet to see any XD "KB", but I have personally witnessed a Glock go up.

Any time.
Any day.

LeonCarr
October 4, 2003, 07:01 PM
Ok here is the story. I have owned or shot just about every semi-auto handgun available. After all of the trials and tribulations, I came back to the Glock everytime. After owning numerous 1911s, of every make and model, not a single one of them was 100% reliable or even close to it (this was before the Kimbers and the "factory custom" type guns). Even after spending buttloads of money and sending big name gunsmiths' sons and daughters to to the college of their choice :) , they wouldn't run right. I looked at the Glock, and shot one. And like most folks, I was skeptical of the plastic gun. I took one to an IPSC match, and it ran for 200 rounds without a hitch. I usually had anywhere from two to numerous malfunctions shooting a match with a 1911. It works for me, and they work for alot of other folks (65% of law enforcement, including the FBI).

Of the handguns mentioned in this thread (XD,HK,Steyr), all of them are more reliable than the 1911, and the XD would be my second choice :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

harrydog
October 4, 2003, 08:27 PM
"Of the handguns mentioned in this thread (XD,HK,Steyr), all of them are more reliable than the 1911, and the XD would be my second choice .

Just my .02,
LeonCarr"


Let's see...all of them are more reliable than the 1911, yet my 1911's have been 100% reliable so far, as have many, many others. I guess the Glock,XD,HK,Steyr must all be more than 100% reliable?
:rolleyes:

Ankeny
October 4, 2003, 08:41 PM
Funny that only one person even mentioned the CZ. I recently started shooting USPSA Production division with a CZ 75B. I have to admit, I am impressed. I have owned the XD, a Sig or two, a Beretta, and various Glocks. For me, it's a matter of ergonomics. I can get more hits on the paper faster with the CZ than with any of the others (and yes I know how to shoot). In my view, the CZ may very well be the most underestimated pistol out there.

JMag
October 4, 2003, 09:05 PM
Forgot the SigPro? You shouldn't...

George Hill
October 4, 2003, 09:22 PM
It's called giving 110%, harrydog.
The Extra Mile.
:D

Ankeny
October 4, 2003, 11:45 PM
I really hate to promote thread drift, but I can't let the comment about 1911 style pistols just slide. In this day and age of numerical control and other advances in production, there are thousands of 1911 style pistols on the market that are absolutely reliable. BTW, I have a Les Baer Premeir II that I shoot in IDPA and USPSA. The guys around here have a standing bet about if and when the gun pukes. I know for a fact that this pistol has never choked with factory rounds and has only malfuntioned a half a dozen times (with crappy reloads) in the last 20,000 plus rounds.

LeonCarr
October 4, 2003, 11:51 PM
You can buy a Les Baer, or you can buy a Glock and 1100 dollars worth of ammunition, and get the same level of reliability :).

I do not promote thread drift, so you can also buy a Steyr, HK, or XD, and 1100 dollars worth of ammunition, and do the same thing :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

harrydog
October 5, 2003, 08:21 PM
Quote:
You can buy a Les Baer, or you can buy a Glock and 1100 dollars worth of ammunition, and get the same level of reliability .

I guess if reliability is the ONLY thing you care about, a Glock makes sense. ;)

Ankeny
October 6, 2003, 11:57 AM
Fact is, most folks will never become proficient enough to really tell the subtle differences in shootability between a Glock, XD, Sig or a CZ. Furthermore, guys like Sevigny, Leatham, Jarret, and dozens of other GM shooters could pick up any of those pistols and school most, if not all, of the shooters on this board with any one of them. If it fits your hand and you like it, buy it. Go shoot the crap out of it and enjoy yourself.

LeonCarr:

Glocks rock, I never said they didn't. But for me, they are at the bottom of the heap based solely on ergonomics. More power to the guys who can shoot them well.

AUTIGER04
October 6, 2003, 12:58 PM
I already own a couple 1911 pistols. Im just looking for something "NEW" and "Different". (New and Different to me)
Thanks for the replies.:D

harrydog
October 6, 2003, 03:54 PM
If you already own some 1911's and want to try something different, then I say by all means you should buy a Glock/HK/XD/whatever.
They're all good guns. Besides, everyone should own at least one Glock during their lifetime, if for no other reason than to know what all the Glock lovers/haters are talking about.
My personal history with Glock is, I bought my first one (23) back in 1991/1992. I liked it enough to also buy a 19 and a 17. I got caught up in all the hype about their durability/reliability and thought they were the ultimate handgun.
Then gradually I began to see them for what they really are. Simple, reliable, inexpensive (relatively) guns that require very little maintenance. I eventually realized that they are neither "perfection" as some think, nor "junk" as others think. They're simply good solid guns but nothing special at all.
However, that's my opinion. You may find yourself in love with them. Give one a try.

AUTIGER04
October 6, 2003, 04:19 PM
Yeah, I was thinking about the G26. But Im sort of interested in the G19 or G22. Im also looking at a Sig that a friend has. It has caught my attention as well. Im so confused. :confused: :( I may just buy both.:D

LeonCarr
October 6, 2003, 06:56 PM
This past weekend I looked at a 9mm XD at the local gun getting place, and I have to admit it took me a while to give it back to the sales guy :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

mrming
October 6, 2003, 10:17 PM
Hey, I actually own or shoot most of these on a semi-regular basis! :-)

I keep bumming other people's 1911's. They aren't bad, but I find my sig 220 to be more accurate as far as 45's go.

I like my XD, it feels good in my hand and all the controls are reasonably well placed even for a leftie. I've had others display quite good accuracy out of it, and I've never had problems with reliablity out of its 5k or so. (wish I could figure out how the few managed to get it to perform.. I still seem much more accurate with a friends G17)

speaking of glocks. 1st and 2nd gen aren't bad. 3rd I've had issues with. Grips felt somewhat less solid, control surfaces too plasticy and ill fitting. Might just be a bum example or two that I've handled. Have seen a G21 detonate. I'll let everyone know if my Sig 226 ever does.

Only pistol I feel I've missed out on is the CZ. Never gotten to handle or fire one.

Ah. BHP's. Balance felt a little off and accuracy was nothing of note.

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