Experts disagree about use of guns by store workers


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Drizzt
January 16, 2003, 03:57 PM
The Atlanta Journal and Constitution


January 16, 2003 Thursday Home Edition

SECTION: DeKalb; Pg. 2JA

LENGTH: 491 words

HEADLINE: Experts disagree about use of guns by store workers

BYLINE: DAVID SIMPSON

SOURCE: AJC

BODY:
National convenience store chains have studies and consultants to back up their policies against resisting armed robbers.

J.C. Adams has a shotgun.

Last week, Adams, owner of the Pac A Sac store at 2615 Lawrenceville Highway, shot and killed a would-be robber and wounded an accomplice. The 74-year-old, who uses a walker, also killed a man who tried to rob the store in May 2000. Adams' fighting reaction to crime drew immediate community support. Whether other crime victims could benefit from his example is a question debated by those who've studied crime statistics.

Rosemary Erickson, a San Diego State University sociology professor, has conducted years of research on convenience store robberies and does consulting work for the industry. She says Adams was "very lucky" to have escaped harm.

Erickson said small operators like Adams should follow the example of national chains like 7-Eleven Inc., which prohibit employees from carrying weapons and advise cooperation with robbers. She said there is clear-cut evidence that a no-resistance policy is safest.

But she conceded that store operators, like the public, are influenced by people like Adams who successfully resist. "People who shoot and kill a robber are treated as heroes, so you're fighting an uphill battle," she said.

Rob Wilcox, spokesman for the Washington-based Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said his organization supports the safe use of guns for self-defense. But he pointed to statistics that guns often are not used for their intended purpose.

He noted studies by Dr. Arthur Kellerman, head of Emory University's Injury Control Center, concluding that guns kept in homes are far more likely to be used against a family member than an intruder.

But Gary Kleck, a Florida State University professor of criminology and criminal justice, has produced studies concluding that guns are effective in self-defense. Kleck studied the federal government's surveys of crime victims and concluded that people who reported using guns for self-defense in a robbery were less likely to be injured.

Using surveys from 1992 to 1998, Kleck concluded that 8.5 percent of "confrontational robbery" victims who attacked the robber with a gun were injured. And all of those injuries occurred before the victim used the gun. The injury rate was 23.6 percent for victims who offered no resistance.

"Once it's a robbery, it's a dangerous situation and significant numbers of victims will be injured," Kleck said. "It turns out using a gun is as safe as it gets."

Kleck said police in the South and West are more sympathetic to victims in cases such as Adams'. In some other jurisdictions, police routinely would charge a storekeeper after a shooting, though the charge might be dropped later after investigation, he said.

DeKalb County police have said Adams will not be charged. Georgia law permits the use of force to protect property and people.

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Mike Irwin
January 16, 2003, 04:11 PM
Good God.

Kellerman's still floating to the top of Brady's effluent tank.

I'm sure that they'll also be quoting from Bellisile (sp is off) book for a long time, too.

Blackhawk
January 16, 2003, 04:15 PM
If I'm the one being robbed, the "experts" can disagree all they want with what I do. :fire:

Atticus
January 16, 2003, 04:29 PM
"Rosemary Erickson, a San Diego State University sociology professor, has conducted years of research on convenience store robberies and does consulting work for the industry. She says Adams was "very lucky" to have escaped harm.

Erickson said small operators like Adams should follow the example of national chains like 7-Eleven Inc., which prohibit employees from carrying weapons and advise cooperation with robbers. She said there is clear-cut evidence that a no-resistance policy is safest."

I wonder if she believes in that theory when rape is a concern.

Capital Punishment
January 16, 2003, 04:36 PM
Basically, the 'experts' want you to bend over.


No thanks.

sm
January 16, 2003, 04:42 PM
O-L-O-G-Y after a discipline doesn't always mean your learned.

Tell ya what Ms. Erickson, you work the graveyard shift at the local "mart" in a bad part of town. Couple of nights with a firearm, and a couple nights without. Now honestly tell us if YOU survive--which made YOU feel safer??

Granted I don't have an 'ology' after my name, and I believe in Kleck's work...biased perhaps, learned in my mind -yes.

TallPine
January 16, 2003, 04:49 PM
Rosemary Erickson, a San Diego State University sociology professor, has conducted years of research on convenience store robberies

Of course! It took her that long to find enough evidence to support the conclusions she had in the first place.

Monte Harrison
January 16, 2003, 04:55 PM
Rob Wilcox, spokesman for the Washington-based Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said his organization supports the safe use of guns for self-defense. :scrutiny:

spacemanspiff
January 16, 2003, 05:04 PM
i dont get it. they say the experts disagree, but i only saw testimony from one set of experts. unless, they are saying that rob wilcox is an 'expert'.

hows the chain of research work?
ask a retard how much a project will cost, they reply: 'anywhere from $1 to $100,000.'
tell this estimate to your supervisor, but only go with the high end: 'studies suggest the cost could be up to $100,000.'
your supervisor reports to their supervisor with: 'experts agree that it will cost no less than $250,000.'
their supervisor tells it to the company president: 'the cost is $500,000, but i can cut a few corners and get it done for $150,000 if you give me a juicy bonus.'

pax
January 16, 2003, 05:06 PM
In Washington state, everyone who works late night retail (11 pm to 6 am) is required to receive "Crime Prevention Training."

No, really. http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/rules/latenightretailing/HTML/296-832-200.htm

I was hoping I could get a job at the StopNRob and have my employer pay for my next class at FAS, but no such luck. Apparently "Crime Prevention Training" means, training in how to hand over the cash. At least, so I assume from the recommended video: "Is it worth your life?"

pax

If someone comes at you with a knife or gun, say, 'I know you're upset.' We all want to be valued as human beings. -- Jessica Flagg, spokeswoman for the "Million Mom March," Washington, DC, May, 2000

PATH
January 16, 2003, 05:45 PM
We must be weak and passive. We must be victimes. The Hell you say!:banghead: :fire: :cuss:

faustulus
January 16, 2003, 06:38 PM
She said there is clear-cut evidence that a no-resistance policy is safest.

Safety is not my primary motivator. I think I would rather have the dignity of standing up to the bully even if I die in the process. Maybe that is just me.

rock jock
January 16, 2003, 06:43 PM
She said there is clear-cut evidence that a no-resistance policy is safest.
Is she one of the Borg?

BogBabe
January 16, 2003, 10:03 PM
She said there is clear-cut evidence that a no-resistance policy is safest.

Yes, it most certainly is safest -- for the criminals.

foghornl
January 17, 2003, 09:00 AM
Expert? ? ? ?

An "ex" is a has-been, a "spurt" is a drip under pressure....

Here is a suggestion for you, Prof. Erickson.....Try un-armed Pizza Delivery in DC or Chikago or LA on the late shift for 90 days. If you are still alive and un-wounded, we will talk then.

Tamara
January 17, 2003, 09:11 AM
At least, so I assume from the recommended video: "Is it worth your life?"

Well, that all depends on who's being asked that question, doesn't it? ;) :D

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