Accuracy tips for semi shooters?


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Jason_G
February 18, 2009, 10:06 PM
Looking for various shooting tips from anyone that has any input to offer. I've seen some of y'alls targets, and there are some superb shots on this forum.

I wouldn't consider myself to be a slouch behind the trigger, but I would always like to get better. Lately I've found myself getting stale, and not really improving much. Here's my most recent target, 40 rounds at 25 yds, rapid fire (actual controlled rapid fire, about one round per second or two, not blasting away). FWIW, there were two called flyers, 9 @ 8:30, and 9 @ 6:00. You can spot them pretty easily in the pic, as they were pretty wild shots.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/itsthewhitmans/jason/POSTtarget.jpg

My groups are typically like this. Centered on the target, but looser than I would like.

I know shooting pathology is pretty tough to diagnose over the internet without video, but I am wide open to suggestions/pointers. I do not compete, this is just my own personal challenge to get better.

FWIW:

Stance: I use a modified Weaver, with feet slightly outside the shoulders (somewhere between a Weaver and a Chapman). I use it because it is just what feels "natural", but I am open to stance suggestions.

Grip: I use a high grip, with right thumb on the safety, and left just under it, pointing forward. The middle of the pad of my trigger finger is what contacts the trigger when firing. I'm thinking that some of the right/left deviation might have something to do with inconsistent trigger finger indexing, but it's tough to tell when you're the shooter.

Again, any help much appreciated.

Jason


EDIT: I was incorrect about the yardage on this target. See post #15. Sorry about the confusion.

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9mmepiphany
February 18, 2009, 11:17 PM
the single biggest inprovement to my shooting...well, plus taking the class too...is understanding trigger control and allowing the subconsious to control sight alignment.

download a free copy of Bruce Gray's Dry Fire Packet by going to www.GraygunsTraining.com, go to the Dryfire tab and ping the link

The Lone Haranguer
February 18, 2009, 11:42 PM
Twenty-five yards, rapid fire? I would be insufferably pleased with myself if I could shoot like that.

tnieto2004
February 19, 2009, 12:32 AM
WOW.. 25 yards rapid fire?! That is VERY good for 25 yards rapid fire. I wouldn't call you a slouch at all!

RH45
February 19, 2009, 04:16 PM
Dry-fire

possum
February 19, 2009, 05:03 PM
op,
i think you are doing a fine job, and yes there is always room for improvment, i agree dry fire dry fire dry fire, people have no idea how much that will help you out. when i am not at the range, i dry fire, which means almost everyday for me.

really it all comes down to trigger press, of course the sights have to be aligned, and on target and all that jazz, but the biggest issues i always see is inproper trigger press, and anticipation.

Jason_G
February 19, 2009, 06:06 PM
WOW.. 25 yards rapid fire?!

Keep in mind when I say rapid fire, I mean as fast as I can shoot accurately, not as fast as I can pull the trigger. My "rapid fire" is about a shot per 1.5 to 2 seconds I would guess.

I would like to get better and/or faster. I see guys that can make groups like this easily at 40 yds or so, or shoot accurately just as fast as I can even pull the trigger wildly, and it makes me a bit green... I wish I could do it.

Jason

9mmepiphany
February 19, 2009, 06:25 PM
get the Dry Fire Packet, practice correctly and you should easily be able to triple you speed

benderx4
February 19, 2009, 07:12 PM
Jason: I don't care who you are, that's pretty good shooting!

IMHO, any incremental improvement to your already fine shooting would require LOTS of time at the range and perhaps, a race gun.

Someday, I pray I'm as bad as you!

MrBorland
February 19, 2009, 07:37 PM
I see guys that can make groups like this easily at 40 yds or so, or shoot accurately just as fast as I can even pull the trigger wildly, and it makes me a bit green... I wish I could do it.

You see "guys"? Plural? "Easily"? I understand where you're coming from, but before you go chasing this, be sure this isn't just your perception.

I'm no expert, and I'm all for marksmanship, but I've never seen "guys" "easily" make tight "rapid fire" 40 yd groups. Maybe some Bianchi Cup GMs, but that's why they're GMs. This is akin to saying "I don't play basketball, but I want to do that cool slam dunk like Michael Jordan". Even Jordan would admit that there's more behind it than "cool" and "easy" slam dunking. Examine what it is you really want, then break it down into smaller, obtainable goals. As per my reply on TFL, start by separating combat action from target shooting. Easy and stylish slam dunks are a by-product of that effort.

Bill B.
February 19, 2009, 07:58 PM
I don't think you need anyone telling you how to do it better ....!

krs
February 19, 2009, 09:00 PM
I hate to say it but there comes a time when a person reaches the limit of their inborn talent.

The best shooters I've known DID do easily what I struggled to perfect, and they did it with little, and in one case, no practice.

There ws a guy I knew who had reached a high level in the old PPC competition (he was a deputy sheriff at that time). He won most every match he cared to pay to travel to. That was before I knew him very well.

But he got bored with it. He'd show up once or twice a year for one of our little monthly club bullseye matches, pull a pistol out of a brown paper bag or whatever he had that day to carry it, and beat us all flat.

This was a guy who could shoot and I gave it a lot of thought. I'd gotten to taking the expert class at the California State championships but no matter what I tried, read, did, including even such things as previsualization and going to sleep doing mental zenlike exercises I never consistently went farther.

It finally dawned on me that I'd reached the limit of my natural talent. I kept shooting, and I enjoyed it more.

KarenTOC
February 19, 2009, 09:15 PM
download a free copy of Bruce Gray's Dry Fire Packet by going to www.GraygunsTraining.com, go to the Dryfire tab and ping the link

I'm old. Any chance you could translate that into English? :)

If all it means is "send and emal to this address requesting the packet," then I know what to do. "Ping the link" is an expression I'm not familiar with.

thanks

9mmepiphany
February 19, 2009, 11:24 PM
after you select the "Dry Fire" tab, you'll be taken to a page with a link on it. you place your cursor over the link and left click.

there is no e-mail to send to the address. your left clicking on the link sends a signal...pinging the site where the packet is stored...and a copy is automatically sent to the e-mail you've "pinged" from.

i think "pinging" is more common in looking for "open" e-mail addresses to access your computer...that's why you need a firewall to protect your computer.

at least that's how it was explained to me...i'm pretty old too, from the '50s

Jason_G
February 21, 2009, 09:44 AM
Well, I was wondering why everyone was saying I was such a good shot, yet I knew in my mind that I had plenty of room for improvement...

Turns out that original target wasn't 25 yds after all. :o

The range where I shot that target has two lines painted on their walls, and I had always been told one was 50yds, and the other was 25. Well, I went outside to shoot a little yesterday after running off some B4s as advised by some folks, and stepped off 25 yds... A whole sight farther than what I shot that original target from. I'm thinking that those lines must've been 30 and 15, not 50 and 25. I usually only shoot steel poppers at unmarked distances, so the yardage didn't really register with me until I stepped it off. I think we need an idiot of the week smiley. I started to just let everyone continue to think I was a fabulous shot :p, but I really want advice on any books, videos, or just tips on improving accuracy.

So at any rate, here are some B4 targets, placed at a true 25 yds (I measured). I know these are intended to be 20 yd targets, but after that last screw up I wanted to see what type of groups I could print at an actual 25 yds.

I scanned these instead of photographing them, and the holes were tough to see, so I circled them in red. These were printed on standard letter size paper to give you an idea of scale, and the 10 ring is about an inch in diameter. All are five shot groups, offhand, with 230 gr ball.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/itsthewhitmans/jason/25ydB41.jpg


The wind was blowing the target around a little on this one, but here it is:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/itsthewhitmans/jason/25ydB42.jpg

The flyer on the top target picture was called, but the ones on the bottom image were actually to my surprise. It might have been the wind, but I'm not sure. It was tough to call shots by this point, because the target was constantly dancing at least a little bit through the whole group.

I think if I could just "round up" my flyers, I would be a whole lot happier with myself. I notice on my targets that when I have flyers, they are generally low and left. You can see it in these targets, too.


So at any rate I, want to apologize to everyone for the confusion I caused with my original post, and if any of you have any additional pointers, I'm all ears...


Jason

MrBorland
February 21, 2009, 10:58 AM
So at any rate I, want to apologize to everyone for the confusion I caused with my original post, and if any of you have any additional pointers, I'm all ears...

I think many of us have been there. When I started going to my current range, I assumed it was 25 yards. The lighting was better, so my groups tightened up just a bit, and I was happy. Then I discovered it's only a 20 yard range. :o

At any rate, kudos for trying the B-4s. The "fliers" could be from jerking the trigger, or blinking just before the trigger breaks, which often cause shots to go low and left. Dry fire practice will help with that.

FWIW, it might help to have a specific goal; the benchmark I often see for good (but not outstanding) standing unsupported shooting is consistent 3" 5-round groups (counting all rounds; no fliers) at 25 yards. Superb shooting, IMO, would be consistent groups 2" or even less. 'Course, this assumes your gun & ammo are easily capable of delivering this too.

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