[jbkebert]

I am getting ready to aquire a 15" barrel for my t/c encore and change to a handgun as well as the rifle. My question is I have two rifles chamber in .308 and I am using Varget. Both have 28" barrels. Should I change to a faster burning powder for the 15" handgun barrel since the slow burning will not burn up in that time. Or am I asking for problems with a faster burn rate?

[rcmodel]

R-22 doesn't seem like an especially good powder choice for a .308 in any barrel length.
It is a very slow Magnum powder.

R-17 seems to be at the slowest usable burning rate in the .308" with R-15 more often called for.

Alliant doesn't even list a load with any bullet weight using R-22 in the .308. Neither do any of my reloading manuals.

But regardless of that, whatever powder you use to get the most velocity in a long barrel will also most likely give the highest velocity in a short barrel.

Powder doesn't burn all the way down the barrel.
Most of it is consumed in the chamber and the first 2" - 4" of barrel. From there on, expanding gas drives the bullet the rest of the way out of the barrel.

rc

[jerkface11]

Varget seems like a much better choice than RE22. Yes stick with it the barrel length won't matter.

[Kernel]

Off topic, but question -- did the Encore leave the factory as a rifle or a pistol? If it left as a pistol, fine. If it left as a rifle you may want to reconsider the 15" barrel. Installing it would be a violation of Federal code. The kind of violation that could earn you a free dayglow jump suit.

I only mention it because you said you already had two .308 rifle barrels and this would be your first pistol length barrel.

[jbkebert]

That is what I orginally thought and heard from T/C. I called there yesterday and was given diffrent info from what I had originally received a year and a half ago. According to them you can infact put a pistol barrel on the encore with pistol grip and forend as long as the barrel remains less than 16" the rifle stock requires a barrel of at least 16 1/4" with rifle stock. I guess a phone call to the ATF could not hurt.

[Kernel]

On Mike Bellm's (renowned custom TC barrel smith) site he says:

"Any way you stack it, it is technically a violation of the 1934 National Firearms Act to convert a TC from rifle configuration to handgun."

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=239

"In summary, without getting into all the court decisions and logic behind both positions, it boils down to this:

Thompson Center says you can freely swap handgun and rifle parts back and forth so long as you do not combine a buttstock and a barrel less than 16" or an overall length with a buttstock under the legal 26" limit.

The BARF says you can't! Who are you going to believe?

I tend to believe the one carrying the big stick with the arrest powers and suggest you do the same!"

[jbkebert]

Sounds like good advice. I did however put a call into the Topeka office of the ATF. No one at home apparently I did leave a message reguarding my question so we will see if he even calls back. I have just heard so many stories both ways it would be nice to get a definative yes or no. The no side is what I have thought to be true for several years.

[tlen]

..... I did however put a call into the Topeka office of the ATF. No one at home apparently I did leave a message reguarding my question so we will see if he even calls back......... .
Sounds like you might have sealed your fate by making the call. If your "pistol" is not involved in a crime and the length configuration you have is "legal" who is to know and why would there be a check ?

[jbkebert]

Could be: I have not ordered a barrel yet. I do shoot alot at state gun ranges with alot of the wildlife and parks officers. I am also a hunter ed instructor. I know the folks at Pratt look down highly on gun violations and any wildlife violation. I have done nothing wrong so I am not worried about the call. I would rather remain a hunter ed instructor than get my certificate revoke because I wanted a hand cannon.

[rcmodel]

There really is no question.

Kernal answered it in post #4.
-- did the Encore leave the factory as a rifle or a pistol?If it left the factory serial numbered as a pistol receiver, you can do any barrel swapping you want to do.

But if it left the factory serial numbered as a rifle receiver, you cannot legally put a barrel shorter then 16" on it, and it must be at least 26" long OAL.
So you can't put a pistol grip on it either unless it measures over 26" with the rifle barrel on it.

rc

[jbkebert]

Thanks Kernel and rcmodel for your input. I had made the call to the atf office before I saw your post. Or I guess in between. However I was not at all trying to question your knowledge on the matter. Just have learned to be a little skiddish. I get one answer from the shop that sold me the gun. Another answer from another shop in town, T/C says yes Mike Bellum says no. By no means am I trying to prove anyone wrong and yes I probably did seal my own fate by making a call. Heck I this point i want the guy who can arrest me to say yes or no. I can alway put a .308 barrel on my new to me contender which was purchased used as a pistol.

[ArchAngelCD]

I would use the load that works well in the 28" barrel in the 15" barrel too. As long as you have 5" or more of barrel most of the powder is burnt by then. A good load is a good load even when you shorted the barrel to 15".

[LTR shooter]

Not .308 , but when going from my 26" barrel .223s to my 14" Contender .223 the faster powders do not display the great fireballs and muzzleblast in the shorter barrel.

[Grumulkin]

You do not have to use a faster powder in a shorter barrel. Use the same powder that gives the best accuracy in a longer barrel. My 308 powders are Varget and IMR 4064 though others no doubt work well.

[zxcvbob]

I have just heard so many stories both ways it would be nice to get a definitive yes or no. The Supreme Court gave a definitive answer already. The BATF didn't like that answer, so they ignore it. (they'll probably try to prosecute you too if they get a chance)

It's kind of like how D.C. didn't like the Heller decision, so they are trying as hard as they can to marginalize it.

[jbkebert]

the faster powders do not display the great fireballs and muzzleblast in the shorter barrel.

Is that a bad thing.
I am not trying to start a field on fire with each shot. I just want to develope the most accurate hunting load that I can. Perhaps I have put way to much thought into this. I just started thinking that in most handguns you use a faster burning powder to compensate for the lack of pressure built up in shorter barrel lengths. Rifles you use a slower burn rate powder so avoid a rapid spike in pressure. I am not even close to mastering to art of reloading only been at a year or so. I just wondered if there was a neutral ground for something that is neither a pistol nor a rifle.

[LTR shooter]

Is that a bad thing.
I am not trying to start a field on fire with each shot.

No , actually I meant that was one advantage of the faster powders in my experience of shooting the 14" TC. Faster powders like H322 and VV N-133 have given me best accuracy in the 14" barrel and that was the most important to me. But they have also performed extremely well in my 20" and 26" rifles too.

I just want to develope the most accurate hunting load that I can

I would try the Varget like the others mentioned. If it provides you with the perfomance you are looking for no need to look any further.

[jbkebert]

LTR

I seems to run into a lot of people on the range that just get off on muzzle blast and who could not be accurate if they tried. I misunderstood your response.

Well it has been a couple days now and have heard nothing back from the ATF. I did talk to a gentlement that I know and he said that he has heard of a guy wanting to get rid of a Encore pistol in 7mm-08. If I can get that at a decent price problem solved.