Carrying Double Action w/ no safety in Cargo Shorts?

[LoneStarWings]

Hi,

I am wondering about the practicality of carrying concealed in cargo shorts. I live in a warm climate and shorts are comfortable 95% of the year. Did a search and couldn't find much discussion of cargo shorts (no fashion criticisms please :D)

The shorts I like have large pockets on the front/side of the pant leg. My full size S&W .40 M&P fits in this pocket perfectly, it's snug but no stretching required. I have long arms so I find I can draw quickly from the pocket.

Is it a safety hazard to keep the gun in a pocket like this, especially a DA trigger like this with no safety? All it would take is something snagging on this trigger for it to fire, and that concerns me a bit, but it is a 7 lb trigger, I think.

Just to be clear I haven't even taken a CHL class yet but am just planning ahead.

[TehK1w1]

Personally, I would not carry anything in an open pocket(no holster) that could be fired without racking the slide or disengaging the safety. It just seems too easy for the trigger to get caught on something if there is no holster to keep the trigger guard clear, especially if you have to grab for it in a hurry.

[Rockwell1]

There's actually a company that manufactures a holster designed for use with cargo pants. Don't remember the name though

[shootistpd27]

If you are that concerned with the weapon in your pocket then I would get another weapon. But if you still want the weapon in your pocket then I would go to the range and practice racking the weapon. That way you dont have one in the pipe and you can still carry the weapon where you want it while still feeling safe from any dangerous a.d.'s. I would suggest a smaller caliber in a pocket though.

[msb45]

Two things to do:

1) empty the pocket so nothing can snag the gun.
2) pocket holster to cover the trigger and break-up the guns "print"

[chupacabrah]

I also like cargo shorts in the summer, even though "nobody has gotten laid wearing cargo shorts since 'nam"

I think the m&P trigger is much too light to carry loaded without a holster.

that IS scary.


get a pocket holster, or carry without one in the chamber and practice racking

[Duke of Doubt]

It's not just a snag issue.

Have you ever tripped and fallen? I mean, REALLY taken a spill, like missing a concrete curbing or a frost heave? Count on that gun to fly like ten yards, right in front of a schoolbus. Hey, it happens.

Keep your guns secured in a little more than a cargo pocket.

[The Lone Haranguer]

A pocket holster will alleviate some of these concerns by helping to keep foreign objects out of the trigger guard. Being sure to keep your fingers clear of the muzzle, put the handgun in the holster first (this lets you watch to prevent the trigger from snagging and being pulled on something), then the handgun/holster into your pocket. And never put anything else in that pocket. Keys, coins, pens and other objects can snag the gun on the draw or wedge themselves in action parts and trigger guards.

[ArmedBear]

How do the holsters work?

I mean, how do you draw the gun from your pocket, without simply ending up with a holstered gun in your hand?

I was wondering the same thing. Most of my pants have some extra pockets, and I use them (and I got laid about an hour ago).

I'd feel better about, say, an XD with a grip safety and a long-travel trigger, than some other semiautos.

I wouldn't trust some thumb safeties, though. They can get hung up FAR more easily than the trigger can.

Anyway, anybody have any experience with pocket holsters like that?

[MCgunner]

There's DA and then there's DA. I carry a Kel Tec P11. It has a pocket gun's DA. I don't consider a Glock a DA, too short, too light. I still carry in a pocket holster, though. Not only protects the trigger, but keeps the dust bunnies out and keeps the gun in the proper orientatio for the draw. You should be okay with a proper pocket holster, even with a Glock style "safe action" trigger, if it properly covers the trigger. But, the big advantage of DA is you don't need no stinkin' safety to be saf, always ready for action with just the smooth pull of a long trigger. Takes some getting used to for the inept, but it works for me.

[ArmedBear]

Takes some getting used to for the inept, but it works for me.

LOL

How does the pocket holster work, though? Never seen one, believe it or not.

[Duke of Doubt]

ArmedBear: "How do the holsters work? I mean, how do you draw the gun from your pocket, without simply ending up with a holstered gun in your hand?
I was wondering the same thing. Most of my pants have some extra pockets, and I use them (and I got laid about an hour ago)."

First of all, congratulations. I didn't score last night (at least, I think; I still haven't gone down to see if my car is in the drive).

Second, you've hit on the issue of "holster retention." Unless you want to grasp the holster with the other hand as you draw, you have to secure that holster to your pocket with a force able to withstand the force applied by your hand to the grip as you draw, else you do indeed get a holstered gun in your hand. Funny I've never seen that happen in the movies (or even the cartoons).

[ArmedBear]

LOL Just wanted to dispel some of the pernicious myths surrounding cargo shorts/pants.

I suppose if you're really committed, you could sew a "pistol pocket" -- the ones they sell to hang pistols on the door of a long gun safe -- into every pair of pants.

Thanks for the explanation.

[spickus]

"How does the pocket holster work, though? Never seen one, believe it or not."

Here's an inexpensive but very popular Desantis Nemesis ($15) wrapped around a Taurus 85 Titanium. If you're going to pocket carry, get a holster. It protects you, the weapon and lessens printing.

http://216.231.173.166/ccw/DSCF0247.JPG

[Guitarslinger46]

I personally wouldn't want to carry with one in the pipe in a cargo pocket, especially with a DAO trigger, and I'd want a pocket holster. The M&P is a bit large for pocket carry in my opinion. I'd rather have a little .380 like the LCP or a Bersa for pocket carry. If you insist on lugging around that Smith, I'd really practice racking that slide after the draw, but that's me.

Cocked and locked in a SA pistol like a 1911 is a completely different story. Condition 1 all the way.

[David E]

The M&P C is still to big and heavy to carry comfortable in a cargo pocket. It'll swing fore and aft with each step.

The trigger on this gun is too light to have a round chambered without a holster covering the triggerguard.

Most people wear shirts, even when wearing shorts, so there is a better way to conceal that gun and that is on the waistband in an IWB rig.

.

[MisterMike]

Regardless of the gun, you should never pocket carry without a holster. I have a DeSantis Nemesis for my Glock 26. While it turns out that it's pretty big for pocket carry, the Nemesis has a grippy exterior and stays in your pocket when you draw.

On the issue of carrying with a chambered round, you'll find plenty of people who claim that doing so increases your vulnerability by adding an additional, time-consuming step to being "ready to fire." I'll admit that my bias goes back to my initial training with semi-automatics in the Air Force, but I never carry with a round chambered. When I consider the most likely scenarios, it always seems to me that the fraction of a second it will take me to rack the slide is a small price to pay, as compared to the peace of mind I get from knowing I'm carrying in a more safe condition. Also, in the event I ever lost my gun to a bad guy, it adds to the likelihood that he won't be able to use it against me.

[ArmedBear]

the Nemesis has a grippy exterior and stays in your pocket when you draw.

Ah. Thank you. That makes sense, too.

[351 WINCHESTER]

I think a pocket holster is in order, if for nothing else to keep the gun in position for proper "orientation".
A pocket holster will go a long way to keep your pockets from wearing out.

[sohcgt2]

In my home state of Georgia it is illegal to carry without using a holster. Another case of regulating safety.

[jackstinson]

Use a pocket holster to cover the trigger, and don't put anything but the gun/holster in that pocket.
If you need to figure out what fits...Cheaper-Than-Dirt has a "holster wizard" on their website that is a good place to start.

[shootistpd27]

A pocket holster prevents those around you from knowing that your armed. They protect your clothes and prevent a.d.'s that is as long as you dont have a cumbersom easy cock hammer protruding from it. If you remember the first scene from John Waynes final movie "The Shootist" a lone robber held the Duke at gunpoint and told him to give him his wallet. The Duke said sure and retrieved his wallet but behind it was a small derringer. The Duke shot him and left him for dead. If you are surprised by a thug in a parking lot the pocket holster resembles a wallet and you will gain the upper hand if he already has the drop on you. They make a great pocket holster for the keltec and ruger 380. I have one and it is great.

[Stirling XD]

I wear cargo shorts a lot too. For a long time I carried a Colt Mustang Pocketlite with no holster. I put my checkbook in there as well to avoid printing. That worked ok. I later bought a De Santis Super Fly pocket holster. That works great. It's got a flap that covers the whole gun. No worries of snagging or printing. Look into it.

[LoneStarWings]

What about those leg holsters? You cut a hole in the back of the cargo pockets which allows you to reach the weapon that's strapped to your leg. Maybe that's a little too much, or too girly to wear the garter-type thing.

[ArmedBear]

The way I see it, most cargo pockets are pretty low on the legs. That means that, if you have the gun down low enough to grab through a hole in the back of the pocket, the gun will be out in the open whenever you sit down, walk up stairs, etc.

[9mmepiphany]

the Nemesis has a grippy exterior and stays in your pocket when you draw.


also you notice that the top of the front seam comes up very high...this is designed to catch on the edge of the pocket during the draw

[Prince Yamato]

Most inside the pocket holsters are made of neoprene and rubber. My Uncle Mike's Holster for instance, is a neoprene exterior with a rubber band (like a piece of textile rubber) going around it to be extra sticky.

[CDH]

Regardless of where a pistol is carried, a holster is the ONLY way to carry it not only safe, but ready as well.

I refuse to carry a pistol that even has a safety anymore. In a real-life situation, all I want to do is to point and click and not be distracted with racking or even wondering if there's one in the chamber or not (did I or didn't I?... give me a sec, BG, while I check this out.)

So my carry weapons are the likes of a 642, Rohrbaugh R9s 9mm (no safety on board), LCP (no safety on board) and an XD9SC (no safety on board) and all carried with one in the chamber.
While I also carry a Commander in DefCon1, the 1911 is a different platform altogether and the safety on it is not used in the same way that safeties are on other pistols (and not part of this discussion).

However, a proper holster will always totally enclose the trigger on a pistol, so an accidental hang-up and trigger pull is simply not possible.
Even a pistol like the LCP shouldn't be carried naked in a pocket. There are pocket holsters designed especially for pocket carry, and they not only keep the pistol safe, but make it more readily available by keeping the pistol properly oriented in the pocket for faster access.
A pistol without a pocket holster will invariably end up upside down or sideways in the pocket which not only makes it more dangerous to carry (safety or not), but also makes it harder to get to quickly if needed.

My most often carry is the Rohrbaugh in an Uncle Mikes #1 holster (an IWB holster), but that I carry in the front pocket of my jeans with the clip over the edge of the pocket.
Any shirt I have (that I wear hanging out) will totally hide it, it's kept safe in it's holster, and with the grip just peaking over the edge of the pocket, I can draw as quickly as any IWB holster.

[MCgunner]

I don't carry in a cargo pocket, use the large front pocket which you can also get in shorts. I don't wear shorts, don't like the sunburn on my chicken legs. :D And, I'm always on a motorcycle and prefer at LEAST my jeans on while riding. I also have armored riding gear, but only wear that on trips and such. I've tried cargo pockets and the gun flops around and bangs into my boney knees and such when I walk, not comfy. Much prefer the gun in my front pocket. The holster is not a problem, rough out exterior keeps it in the pocket and as I draw it, my index finger pushes against the holster instinctively, anyway, as I lay it along side the gun on the draw. It's quite fast, especially with my hand in my pocket as I walk in dark parking lots and areas where my awareness is at a higher level. You can't walk with your hand in a cargo pocket.

Anyway, I don't like the cargo pocket thing. I have cargo jeans, but they have large front pockets. I carry wallet and keys and that in the cargo pockets to leave the strong side front pocket empty for the gun and holster. I only carry the gun in the gun pocket. My guns have revolver like DAs (one IS a revolver). I think a longer, heavier DA is better for pocket carry, but a Glock is okay if it fits the pocket and the trigger is covered by a holster such that nothing external of the pocket can possibly get to the trigger. The holster breaks the outline of the gun so it doesn't print like a gun and it keeps the gun oriented in the pocket for the draw. It also keeps the gun barrel from punching a hole in the pocket which it will eventually do if there's no holster. A holster will keep lint out of the gun, too. There are a variety of pocket holsters from outfits like Desantis and Uncle Mike's that are quite effective and not expensive. A good IWB can cost 3 digits. My Rosen Workman was 145 bucks. A good pocket holster can be had for under 20 bucks. I don't do cheap IWBs. IWB demands quality leather.

[Yosemite Sam]

I agree that front pocket carry is more comfortable than cargo pocket because the gun won't be flopping around and banging into your knees when you walk or run. Unless it's really lightweight like a P3AT or LCP that you won't notice in a cargo pocket...

[Dirtpile]

Even that would get old pretty quick. And it's going to bang against everything and everyone you get too close to.
On a a similar note it will be obvious that you have somthing heavy in your pocket which could make you a potential target.
I also doubt that even a full size pistol in a holster wouldn't get turned around on you in a cargo pocket.
And much like SOB (small of back) carry no matter much much you practice drawing it's still awkward and slow to draw from a cargo pocket. Too far down and you're gonna get a lot of pocket trying to go with the gun.
Do yourself a favor and get a small pistol and carry in the front pocket or IWB.

[dacavasi]

It's only a hazard if you let it be! There is no way that the M&P is going to go off WITHOUT YOU PULLING THE TRIGGER...

If you are in fear of your firearm malfunctioning, then you should seek further training in safe handling practices, OR, find a gun you can count on....

[stubbicatt]

Dillon and others market these little pocket holsters which both cover the trigger guard area and sort of conceal the outline of your pistol because they are more or less square or rectangular. Check into one of them, they aren't very expensive, and you can still draw and present your weapons quickly.

[Deanimator]

The only pocket carry I do is with my Smith Model 36. I carry it in a DeSantis Nemesis. The holster keeps the hammer from getting snacked on the lining of my pocket, but I still have a conventional hammer which I can cock for single action if I want.

Also, in Ohio, if you carry on-body in an automobile, it MUST be in a holster of some kind.

[Defense Minister]

A traditional double-action pistol or DAO should be fine when pocket carried with a round chambered, just be sure there is nothing else in that pocket. A striker fired pistol such as a Glock or your M&P should never be carried in a pocket with a round chambered unless holstered with something solid surrounding the trigger guard. This means that most cheap, flimsy pocket holsters are out. If you must pocket carry with a striker fired pistol, I highly recommend leaving the chamber empty. I carry an M&P.40 compact in a Crossbreed Supertuck wearing just shorts and a T-shirt all summer long, and it is perfectly comfortable and quick to access. I also highly recommend this holster.