shooting day with 8 new shooters


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realmswalker
February 20, 2009, 04:30 PM
hello everyone,

I will be taking 8 new shooters, a mix of men and women, to burro canyon shooting range within a month or so and wanted to run my plan by you guys and if you have any suggestions for me that would be great. I have never taken a large group out shooting. We will be shooting at a private range.

The list I am going to send to the 8 people to bring is as follows

1. 1 set of ear plugs. the kind with a cord is preferable (can be bought at turners, home depot, or most gun stores)
2. 1 set of shooting glasses,sunglasses,or prescription eyeglasses (shooting glasses also can be bought at turners,home depot, or most gun stores)
3. comfortable shoes, tennis shoots or hiking boots
4. shorts, or pants if the weather calls for it
5. bring a jacket as it can get cold
6. sunblock
7. a hat
8. no low cut tops for the ladies because bullet casings are hot and sometimes go in unexpected places
9. water
10. a lunch such as a sandwich or snacks
11. a chair
12. a canopy if you have it

all ammo and guns will be provided by me. I will be bringing

a browning challenger III 22 lr
a smith and wesson k-22 masterpiece 22 lr
a smith and wesson model 15 38 special (my own loads, medium loads)
a smith and wesson model 66-2 357 magnum (will own loads, 38 special, medium loads)
a sig p228 9mm (my own loads, moderate loads)
a glock 17 9mm ( my own loads, moderate loads)
a baby desert eagle 40 caliber (my own loads, medium to moderate loads)
a colt 1911 45 caliber (my own loads, moderate loads)
a springfield 1911 (45 caliber, my own loads, moderate loads)
a hk usp fullsize (45 caliber, my own loads, moderate loads)
a smith and wesson model 29-2 (44 magnum, some very light loads, some medium loads, and some very heavy loads for anyone who wants to try it)
an ar-15, (factory loads, remington ammunition)

For targets I will be bringing 3 targets stands with paper targets, and one mgm steel full size which is this target

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/30/m_f88f880cac4b4092b2e501a2c96a0dcf.gif

I will be of course going over the four rules and safety will be paramount at all times. I believe one of the people going is former coast guard from a specialized unit, so hopefull he can help me out with the group.

any suggestions or comments as in what to bring extra, or anything else would be great. these are all red cross people so I think we have first aid covered.

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hso
February 20, 2009, 04:35 PM
Good for you!!! The more new people we introduce to shooting safely and enjoyably the fewer we have to worry about supporting idiotic restrictions.

I would add something to wash up with after shooting. Better to have clean hands before lunch and snacks. Baby wipes are what I use.

I recommend muffs along with plugs. An afternoon at the range might result in ringing ears without them and I'd rather not have anyone scared off from shooting because their ears rang for a day. If you're going to work with them one at a time a single pair of electronic muffs can make your life much easier since the person you're working with can hear you easily even with plugs in.

8 people is a lot to take out at once. See if you can get another experienced shooter to go with you to help. If I have more than 4 I like to have an "assistant".

Carlos Cabeza
February 20, 2009, 05:15 PM
That is great ! 8 people is quite a few to take at one time but at least they are all adults !:) I have to draw the line at three ! Kids that is.... It is hard to keep an eye on them !

No reactive target other than the steel silhouette ? I took three pumpkins and using the AR with 45gr hollow pts. made for some pumpkin pie ! The kids loved it ! I guess reactive targets are for the young-uns :p....

It might be better to keep it formal since you are at a private range.

A golf ball will fly like tiger woods hit it if you hit it the right way !

I would also say to bring another experienced friend to assist.

Woodstock45678
February 20, 2009, 05:44 PM
mods delete post - i don't know how

jcwit
February 20, 2009, 05:55 PM
Very good idea. Looks like you have it pretty well covered.

Here is a reactive target that fun (at least I think so) if you have a hill as a backstop.
Foam insulation (the sheet kind) but into 4" x 4" squares. Flies when hit, and lasts alot longer than clay pigeons. If you're quick can even be shot while still on the fly. Not a shot into the sky, but as it tumbles down the hill.

Just a thought.

QuietEarp
February 20, 2009, 06:14 PM
I think that 8 new shooters is too many at once. You also have 12 firearms many of which are much different from one another. I think that the operation of so many different guns is a lot of information to give to a new shooter let alone 8. Are you expecting all 8 to be shooting at the same time? If so I think that it is putting too many firearms in too many inexperienced hands too close to each other. I am assuming these are total newbies to shooting whom I believe should enter into shooting slowly and at their own pace, something not possible in a group of 8 with just one teacher and so many different guns to keep track of. I have found that I personally find it distracting to keep track of my own guns when there are more than 3 out, but that is just me. I see that many of your guns have similar operating systems, that is good. I would focus on those and keep it simple for the new shooters. I like the idea of reactive targets as they give you instant feedback. If I was gonna omit one gun it would be the .40 as then you could leave one whole caliber of ammo out of the equation. So I guess I am mostly concerned about the number of new shooters and the amount of learning each one will walk away with to make it a positive experience for all. If you are providing the ammo free of charge for 8 shooters then you are a very very nice guy. Good luck and be safe.

IndianaBoy
February 20, 2009, 06:35 PM
8 people is a lot at once.

Can you supervise that many people shooting at once with guns that they are not familiar with?

I applaud what you are doing. But you should take 2 or 3 more shooters with you that you know are VERY safety conscious and also have the personality to be a good teacher.

Sam1911
February 20, 2009, 07:12 PM
I'll add my voice to the chorus here: Hooray for you! Taking new shooters is a VERY GOOD thing!

However, I do see the same issues that others have: Too many shooters for the instructor to deal with and too many guns.

Please don't plan on having more than one shooter on the line at once. You must be RIGHT ON THEM (on their strong side, slightly behind, not more than 3 feet apart) at all times -- attentive, and ready to provide instant hands-on correction if someone forgets their muzzle discipline. (And, to provide instruction as well, though that is SECONDARY to the safety function.)

Having established that there will only be one shooter on the line at a time, what are the other seven doing? Being a match shooter in a squad of eight can be trying on the old patience -- and then each shooter is getting the job done in less than a minute (two, counting pasting targets). If you're going to instruct each shooter for five minutes on a gun, then the others are all waiting around for over half an hour for their turn to come up. And you're bringing 12 guns? Good grief! You're asking uninitiated/untrained folks to stand around waiting for HOURS. Even if each one only shoots three guns that's still 4 hours of standing around -- if you take NO breaks.

So what are they doing back behind the line while you're instructing? I'd strongly encourage you to keep the other guns cased up. With 8 unknowns, SOMEBODY is likely to get fidgety and break a safety rule behind your back while your attention is focused elsewhere.

And that's with only 5 minutes of shooting for each shooter with three guns. Four hours of waiting around to shoot for 15 minutes? You may not get many return customers. ;)

I'd split the group at least into two. And I'd pick one small-bore, one revolver, one pistol, and the AR-15 to try out. Those are all great guns, but you're diluting and confusing the experience by trying to feed them so much at once. Heck, you could cut it down a lot if you just stuck to one of each caliber! These are newbies. They don't need to debate the fine differences between a Colt 1911 and a SA 1911. Or differing .38 cal wheelguns. Or even Sig vs. Glock. If they want to experience the rest, let them ask to go another time.

You'll accomplish a lot more by giving them a slightly deeper experience with a few guns than flooding them.

Good luck!

-Sam

P.S. - I agree about taking along another experienced shooter to help watch for safety issues and to help project YOUR authority as the safety officer. But, in a training session like this, I still don't want multiple shooters on the line together. It is distracting and increases the risks of negligent behavior. If you can have your assistant instruct several shooters with the rifle in the next bay while you're working with a couple on revolver shooting, that might be fine.

Sam1911
February 20, 2009, 07:28 PM
8 people is a lot at once.
Can you supervise that many people shooting at once with guns that they are not familiar with?


The answer to that question is NO. No one can. If they were experienced shooters that would be irresponsible. I don't believe the OP was intending to do that anyway.

Still -- ONE AT A TIME, and only under your undivided supervision.

-Sam

GRIZ22
February 20, 2009, 07:34 PM
That is great ! 8 people is quite a few to take at one time but at least they are all adults ! I have to draw the line at three ! Kids that is.... It is hard to keep an eye on them !


8 is too much. I was a LE firearms instructor for a federal agency. The basic shools at FLETC in GA use 1 instructor for 2-4 students. When I taught M4s or MP5s i would normally use 1 instructor per 2 students.

It's hard to keep you eyes on 8 and expect any useful coaching.

realmswalker
February 20, 2009, 07:49 PM
Thank you everyone for your response and advice. based on what you have told me i have decided to narrow my guns down to

k-22 masterpiece 22 lr
66-2 357 (will shoot 38 special only)
glock 17 9mm
hk usp fullsize .45
the ar-15

I will also recommend something to clean hands with. baby wipes are a good idea.

this should cover the shooting basics.

sam you bring up some very good points as 8 people will be very hard to manage without people getting bored waiting their turn.

I have three pairs of ear muffs so i can loan those to the people on the line.

I will try and get another experienced shooter there with me to split the group into two.

my girlfriends work wanted to have a morale day and i volunteered to take them shooting. I didnt know there would be 8 people and I can't really say,
"oh gee 8 people, well you can only take 4".

I will do what I can to make it work, but safety will be paramount as always. Thanks for the advice guys.

akodo
February 20, 2009, 08:13 PM
taking new shooters is great

8 is a lot

I've never hear of anyone expecting new shooters to provide their own ears and eyes

I suggest providing earplugs for all, don't bother with the string, and get maybe 2 sets of eyes and muffs, this will also restrict you to two shooters at the line at a time, which will be good

mikebnem
February 20, 2009, 09:15 PM
I agree with
Hso
Moderator

QuietEarp
February 20, 2009, 10:13 PM
my girlfriends work wanted to have a morale day and i volunteered to take them shooting
Is she one of the shooters for the day? If so how much knowledge of firearms does she have? Does she shoot one of the guns often? She may be a great help in making this day go smoothly and safely. Even if she is not very experienced you could instruct her in a task that will make your job easier and less stressful, such as making sure nobody picks up a gun behind your back while you are on the line or reloading magazines and showing others how to do so. She can be of great help just being someone you can trust. Best of luck and make sure everyone is safe and has a good time.

MT GUNNY
February 20, 2009, 10:23 PM
Do you have an experienced Shooter Friend that can help with safety and Whatnot?

possum
February 20, 2009, 10:39 PM
that is awesome, good on you.

to your packing list make sure they bring an open mind, and the stuff you have already stated and you and them should all be good to go.

tractorshaft
February 21, 2009, 01:16 AM
Good for you! It is the job of us all to show people that even the "Evil M-16" looking rifle will not jump up from the table when in the vicinity of Hi-Capacity magazines and begin spraying lead at all who dare gaze at it! Its an amazing and empowering experience for most new shooters after a fun and enjoyable day at the range! New converts! Bring them on! I wish I were closer old man, I would come and shag brass for ya!

I work at a liberal Ivy league University and have had occasion to invite colleagues to my "Range". I give a similar list of "Bring It" and more importantly I give them the "Safety Rules" to memorize before the trip.

"With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility"

The Amazing Spiderman

azhunter122
February 21, 2009, 01:21 AM
Good for you! As many new shooters the better unless ammo prices go up and in that case it's all mine!

Apple a Day
February 21, 2009, 09:14 AM
If you have a .22 rifle that might be a good idea even before the .223

Second on some way to clean hands especially before eating!

Goodonya for taking all those folks to the range!!!

realmswalker
February 21, 2009, 07:49 PM
Thank you everyone for all your advice and help. I will keep it saved and use it if I ever have to take a large group out.

Unfortunately one lady in the group of workers refuses to handle or be around gun, so their other idea of paintballing is out the door and they can't disclude her based on that. so I guess they are going to a museum.

I also found out that almost every single person had some shooting experience, and two had moderate experience, so it could have been a really fun day. Oh well, thanks again everyone, you were all very helpful.

Lumpy76
February 22, 2009, 09:58 AM
Still take the other seven out. On a seperate day, after their work trip. The anti doesn't always have to be invited.

rbernie
February 22, 2009, 11:54 AM
Don't forget to post a follow-up report. :)

realmswalker
February 22, 2009, 02:07 PM
already in the works lumpy

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