First Handgun Purchase

[HippieMagic]

I am not new to guns or handguns for that matter I just haven't actually OWNED one. They were all friends or family members. I thought long and hard on what my first purchase will be and I came to the conclusion that the Smith & Wesson M&P is the handgun I really want. I don't see me swaying on that part... I asked this question on an M&P forum and didn't really get the answers I would have hoped for. This is a fairly big decision and I kinda want more than 2 replies to it.

After calling around to a few gun shops I found a M&P basic 9mm version for $580 which I wasn't really too into paying that much for the basic version if I didn't have to... I called a few more and found one gun shop that would sell me the basic 9mm version for $440(BNIB 10rnd mags) which I could buy 17rnd ones so who really cares about that... I am not in a state that bans hi-cap mags. I asked her the price of the model with Nights and she replied "I can get you that for $560 in any caliber".

This made me consider the NS version at this point. The problem is it now became fairly confusing. I have no idea what caliber to buy right now with things the way they are. It seems like 9mm ammo is fairly hard to come across while .40 is usually in stock. I hear the price for the night sight version is actually pretty fair but my question is fairly simple here... I have never owned or even seen night sights in person so is it worth the $120 increase?

I will be using this as a general range toy as well as CC and home defense... I don't personally go shoot 1,000 rounds a weekend so the extra $5 difference between a 9mm box and a .40 box of ammo really doesn't bother me. I just need opinions on what you guys would suggest... Would you go with a basic 9mm without night sights and 10rnd mags or just tack on the extra $120 and go for normal mags and night sights? This is before the $50 rebate by the way... I guess you could say $390 for the 10rnd 9mm and $510 for the NS 17rnd. I am still sorta leaning towards 9mm but yeah I am confused as hell...

Just to clarify... I mean 9mm chambering not just the 9mm example I posted above...

[Duke of Doubt]

The whole point of a 9mm autoloader is magazine capacity. Get a Beretta 92FS and some 15 round magazines. You'll pay less than $400 for a cased 99% Beretta pistol and two magazines, if your market is anything like mine.

[Boats]

My wife owns a M&P 9mm with factory installed night sights, and it is what I would suggest for you as well if you are set on the S&W.

Factory night sights are worth it if you look at it this way: You cannot predict the lighting conditions of any subsequent self-defense shooting. Though you may never get into one at all, night sights are more flexible, even during the day, moving from brightness to deep shade, or from outdoors to in. Some shooters despise night sights for various reasons, but when you aren't paying for the installation on top of the cost of the sights, I'd get them.

As for caliber, in JHP form, the 9mm doesn't really give up anything to the .40S&W, and is considered by most to less "snappy" on recoil. I will admit I despise the .40S&W as a solution in search of a problem to solve, but if I didn't, the apparent ability to convert .40S&Ws into 9mms with an aftermarket barrel is intriguing. It's intriguing because 9mm bulk ammo is likely always going to be more affordable than .40S&W in quantity and the cost really adds up for a non-reloader.

The other items you have to decide about the M&P is whether you want a magazine disconnect and/or an internal locking system. My wife opted for a magazine disconnect and ILS because we have children, and at night she keeps the pistol and mag separated on her nightstand because the kids are liable to disturb her first. I prefer not to have that "feature" and use a Beretta PX-4 F in 9mm as my "home defender," with the trigger disconnect safety on while I am sleeping. We're both looking into quick action lock boxes.

Long story short, we all have our preferences and you'll have to answer these questions for yourself as you have to live with the choices.

[mdThanatos]

If you are dead set on getting the M&P, then get the one that you can feed. If you don't have the ammo to shoot it then whats the point of having the pistol, right?

The biggest thing I hear about the .40 is the "snappy recoil". If you have shot that caliber and know how it handles and are comfortable, then go with the .40 since that seems to be what is in stock.

For me, the only reason why I didn't buy the M&P is cause I wanted a .45 and the Springfield XD holds more in the mag than the M&P, otherwise I might have taken the M&P.

[HippieMagic]

Yeah I know the .40 is somewhat snappy... I was also considering what you mentioned about the 9mm conversion and I did bookmark the site just incase. I have considered other handguns but it seems like the S&W is pretty nice for the price. I haven't seen a cheap beretta anywhere at all... most were roughly the same price as the 1911s. I might consider a 92FS if I could find it for around the same price as the M&P. I have $600 cash and don't intend to go over that amount for this first purchase.

[Inspector]

Are you ever considering reloading? If so, then ammo to plink and target practice at the range is almost a non-issue.

For defense, you should really use factory ammo, anything, just FACTORY.

In the meantime, if you do want to start reloading, save ALL your brass.

[HippieMagic]

I will probably reload at some point since my neighbor has all the stuff to do it with so I could just use his for the time being... I want to say I hate the people who just mentioned Beretta because now I am kinda intrigued by the 90-TWO and just started looking into it to see what people feel about it... haha I was dead set on a M&P but now I am on the Beretta site hopping around different models... *sigh*

[David E]

Get either the Glock 17, S&W M&P, Springfield XD or XD-m, all in 9mm.

Forget the Ninety Two.

.

[HippieMagic]

Still leaning towards the M&P. I am not a huge fan of glock and dislike XDs.

[Boats]

Get either the Glock 17, S&W M&P, Springfield XD or XD-m, all in 9mm.

Forget the Ninety Two.

Yeah, because striker fired plastic is everyone's cup of tea.:rolleyes:

[David E]

Not talking tea, talking about easy to shoot guns that fall in the parameters the OP cited.

The Beretta has a long, hard trigger pull, followed up with a long reset and nearly as long take up. It's hard to shoot well, especially for a first handgun.

.

[David E]

Still leaning towards the M&P. I am not a huge fan of glock and dislike XDs.

Why is that? I agree that XD's are fairly clunky looking, but they handle and shoot very well.

Glocks have the advantage of being the oldest of the 3, so parts and accessories (including magazines) are cheap and easy to find.

.

[whitefeather]

Night sights are overrated.

Under stress, how many people are going to take time to align their sights?

Practice with your carry weapon until you can instinctively aim and consistenly hit your target at 7 yds.

Save the $$$ for a good holster and some practice ammo.

[HippieMagic]

I have a fair amount of experience firing a XD40 and just dislike it... Doesn't fit my hands well at all. I was leaning towards the Glock 17 or the M&P 9mm originally and keep coming back to the M&P because it is more ergo friendly... S&W also has better CS if the need arises... I know Glocks are reliable and all and really have no issues with them as a gun just not too into it... The XD I have experience with was a .40 and I hated that grip safety... just not a fan of them.

The NSs being overrated is what I am worried about. I know it helps some but I just keep coming back to the whole "Does it really help or if I get in a situation where the need arises will I just use instinct?" I also keep wondering if the glow could possibly give the gun away or is it so faint that only I could really see it?

I dunno I am paranoid over it but for $120 extra I am just wondering if it is really something most of you consider an asset or if it is just not a big deal at all... I could use that $100ish for a CCW permit too. I mean I will get the permit regardless and it really isn't a big deal till I get really used to the gun I end up buying and either way I have 9mm ammo here so if I get night sights I am not going to be hurting... my head is starting to spin haha.

[David E]

The M&P has a lot going for it. I'm wearing one now !

I have found that night sights are not all that critical. There was a time I thought so, but not so much now.

Evenso, you just need the front sight to have the night sight insert. You can buy one of these yourself for much less than $120 whenever you're ready to do so.

Magazines are $30-35, so I'd buy the one that had the best full capacity magazines available.

[HippieMagic]

kinda out there and off topic but just how hard is it to find a good 1911 for less than $600? I have always wanted one but it seems hard to find them under $800... I am really considering the M&P 40 right now.

[whitefeather]

Just curious as to why you don't like the grip safety?

I have an XD9SC and find the grip safety to be a very useful feature, especially for a defensive/carry pistol. It helps ensure that the gun won't AD.

My XD is the version that does not have a manual safety. With no manual safety to swipe, the comination of the trigger safety combined with the grip safety makes for a extermely safe and fast to draw gun for condition one carry.

[HippieMagic]

it felt... weird... I am not sure why... I just thought the XD had a really weird grip to me. It wasn't something I could shoot comfortably. With the M&P it does feel a little less... safe... but at the same time a lot more comfortable. I would rather have a gun I am comfortable holding than a gun I can't really explain why I don't like the feel of...

[David E]

Just so you know, the newer XD-M has a modular backstrap, similar to the M&P

The downside is, it costs more.

.

[4Freedom]

Would people advise getting the M&P model with the safety or without the safety? I was told the M&P is essentially amost like a SAO gun and I wonder if there is any chance of accidental discharge carrying the gun obscure places, like a shoulder holster or IWB. I am considering getting the .45 model as my third and final (for now) gun. Also, I am told S&W is making 14 round extended mags for the S&W M&P 45, does anyone know if those will be available soon?

[HippieMagic]

the xd i was playing around with had no issues at all as far as reliability was concerned but it wasn't all that accurate for some reason... nobody could hit anything at all with it and when my friend took it to the gunsmith to look it over they experienced the same problems with it. I think they said it was something to do with the barrel... I don't know the actual gun was solid and my friend's xd was the only one with that issue that I have seen. The rest seemed fairly accurate.

Call me crazy but I kinda like the M&P better because it is US made and is a little easier on the eyes... plus there seems to be no real problem with it.

From what I understand it is basically SAO, the thumb safety isn't too appreciated, the internal lock isn't popular, and the mag safety is hated by IDPA shooters because it has to have an empty mag to dry fire.

[Sauer Grapes]

I know you are seemingly set on M&P. You might want to look at a P 250 sig.
It has 3 grip size options, in 3 barrel lengths. I just bought the compact with medium grips for 609.00. Modular gun you can get kit later to shoot 9mm, 357, 40 SW. This is new concept by sig sauer. Some don't like doudble action only but it is such a smooth pull. I really like it since I am used to shooting revolvers. Just a thought!

[HippieMagic]

I have heard of people having issues with the p250 so I never even really looked into it to be honest... I was going to pick up the 226 before but it seems a tad overpriced as with most things sig...

[whitefeather]

You and your friend's experience an XD having the kinds of problems you described is the exeption to the norm.

For most people, the XD with it's 1911 grip angle, points naturally and is very easy to shoot accurately (and instictively). Many Glock owners (and I was one) end up favoring the XD.

To the point regarding your first handgun....

The M&P is a fine gun. It's well made, durable and has seems to be a good value. I would have no qualms carrying one, but I would prefer to have the manual safety so it can be carried "cocked and locked".

[HippieMagic]

I don't know if I would personally carry a gun cocked and locked regardless... I mean what if it falls out on accident in a crowded place and some kid picks it up? I mean that is more likely than ever getting into a gunfight... Most perps would end up afraid of just the gun and you would never need to fire it. If you do need to fire it more than likely your first instinct should be to get some cover before firing at someone that has a gun... I mean if you miss and are in the open his odds of hitting you are decent... not to mention if you are already in that position to where you don't have time to rack the slide the fact that you reached for a gun is enough to get you shot regardless... we aren't in the old west now...

If I walk into a robbery in progress the racking of the slide is going to get the perps attention and show him you are serious... it will also clear any doubt that your gun may not be loaded so that alone would probably be enough to end a hostile situation... I just fail to see the NEED for cocked and locked...

[whitefeather]

Quote"

"I just fail to see the NEED for cocked and locked..."


That will open a can of worms on this forum.

How you carry is purely your choice. However, the M&P with our without a manual safety is a safe gun to carry with a round chambered.

Besides my XD, I have an HK USPc in .40S&W. It is a Variant 1 with a manual safety/decocker. I am a fan of decockers because you can chamber a round, decock, leave the safety off and have a gun that is ready to fire in double action mode. The HK is completely safe to carry in DA mode. It takes a very deliberate pull to complete the DA process (draw back the hammer and trip the sear).

[HippieMagic]

Yeah I thought of DA/SA but some DA pulls seem like an insanely heavy pull.... I saw that one of the SIGs had a 10lbs trigger pull in DA... I have never actually pulled a trigger that heavy but it seems a bit excessive... I may be too picky considering this is my first handgun purchase and is going to be $600 of my money... who knows... I just want something that will serve me well, fit good, shoot accurately, and go bang when I pull the trigger. I am kinda leaning towards night sights after thinking it over... they may not make a big difference but I guess they will be there if I ever need them there or want them there...

I want to pick up some snap caps too to help me with certain drills and practice... Is there a video anywhere that shows the difference in handgun calibers on ballistics gel? I mean everyone keeps talking about their best round for personal protection but I have never been able to find a video that shows just what that difference is... I mean I haven't seen one that shows a 9mm, .40S&W, .357SIG, and .45ACP side by side into gel...

[David E]

I don't know if I would personally carry a gun cocked and locked regardless... I mean what if it falls out on accident in a crowded place and some kid picks it up?

To be blunt, if you "accidentally drop the gun out of your holster," and some kid picks it up BEFORE YOU DO, then you shouldn't be packing ANY type of gun.

I just fail to see the NEED for cocked and locked...

That's because you do not understand it.

Maybe a .357 revolver would be better suited for you.

.

[HippieMagic]

What can go wrong will... That is just how I see it... I am not saying you are wrong to carry it cocked and locked I just prefer not to... I fail to see the need for me to personally do it is what I meant by my statement. I mean maybe if it was the end of the world or we were being invaded it would be different but the crime rate here just isn't high at all...

I did have a friend that was carjacked at gunpoint a few years back... kinda made me realize there is a need for a handgun for self defense even in a world where you think you are fairly safe... I am far from irresponsible in any way and I honestly have never in my life had a firearm accidentally discharge... I grew up around them daily... I am just a cautious person I guess...

[David E]

What can go wrong will...

Right. That's why _I_ carry a gun !

It sounds to me that you need to take a "tactics" class or similar before buying or carrying a gun.

Rob Pincus posts on here and would be a good class to attend..

.

[HippieMagic]

You need to stop taking it so offensive... I grew up around handguns and firearms in general... I know how to handle them and keep them safe but I know that accidents happen... nobody is immune from them... it is just my choice to not carry them with a round in the chamber... I am in rural WV... our crime rate is like ONE theft in 3 years here... your location may be different. I am also going to be taking a tactics class since it is required by law to actually get the CCW permit... It is hardly needed though... this isn't my first time USING a handgun it is my first time PURCHASING one.

I believe I will be picking up the S&W M&P in 9mm with night sights now. It seems to be the best for what I am looking for.

[BCRider]

HippieMagic, up where I live handguns are not carried around other than to the range and then it's in a locked case. But even I know that if you're using this for self defense you want a round in the barrel ready to go. But like you I draw the line at the idea of "cocked and locked". I know it'll raise a bunch of replies but I'd rather not have the hammer ready to slam into the pin if the safety was somehow slipped.

But not all DA/SA guns are horrendously hard to pull on DA. My CZ Shadow is a bit light given that it's meant as an IPSC ready match gun but even a duty DA pull at short range such as under 10 feet is going to do just fine. And with a duty like DA pull even I would feel safe at carrying with a round in the pipe.

I've shot an M&P and found it to be a pistol that fits my hand well. For our target only shooting with no concealled carry at all I PREFER a steel framed gun but if I had to pack something around on my hip all day an M&P would not be a bad choice. More kick than the heavier all steel options but decently compact and can do the job.