How stupid are reporters and some law enforcement?


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camslam
February 21, 2009, 11:00 AM
Judge for yourself.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29309184

CHICAGO - Three teenagers, including a 13-year-old, were killed Friday in a shooting on Chicago's South Side that authorities believe involved an assault rifle.
It appears "several individuals" attacked the teens, and shell casings found at the scene point to at least one assault rifle, said Police Superintendent Jody Weis.

"It's just tragic, based on the guns that are on the streets, that three young men have lost their lives today," Weis said.
"We're bringing out every resource we have, and we'll work this case as hard as we can," he said.

Officials hope at least two surveillance video cameras near the crime scene will lead to clues, said police Cmdr. Eddie Welch, who added that investigators are looking at "multiple scenes."

"They're in great positions," Welch said of the cameras.

No one was in custody as of Friday night, Officer JoAnn Taylor said.

The shooting occurred Friday afternoon about a block from Immaculate Conception School. It is not clear if any of the victims were students there.

One of the teenagers died at the scene, officials said. The others died after being transported to area hospitals.

University of Chicago Medical Center spokesman John Easton identified the 13-year-old victim as Johnny Edwards. The identities of the other two, ages 15 and 17, have not been released.

When I read this story, 2 things jumped out at me. The way the reporter wrote it, you would think the gun sought these people out and shot them because it was believed to be a dreaded "assault rifle". Also just the fact that it was perhaps an assault rifle, it made it even worse. :banghead::rolleyes:

Then you have this idiot police commander, and yes, I mean IDIOT, spouting off that its based on the guns that are on the street that these kids are dead.

Uuummmm no, it is for plenty of other reasons, several of which Chicago and other urban areas exemplify in this here country of ours.

Are there maximum IQ's that are required to be a reporter or spokesman for big city, metro, law enforcement these days? Somewhere in the range of 71 to 80?

Judas priest I get tired of reading this crap. Just venting I guess.

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CB900F
February 21, 2009, 11:09 AM
Camslam;

I agree. Demonize "the thing" with unrelenting propoganda. Achieve control by the state for political purpose. Those of us who are willing to examine some recent history can easily point to both a Fascist and a Communist govenment that adopted exactly those tactics. Neither of those two governments lasted very long in the greater scheme of things, but look at the damage that was done when they were active.

People who say "It can't happen here!", are the ostriches who indeed are letting it happen now.

900F

Duke of Doubt
February 21, 2009, 11:13 AM
As gun reporting goes, this one isn't bad at all. Note that the reporter actually gave the reason why an "assault rifle" was believed used -- the shell casings. If .223 or 7.62x39, that's a good working hypothesis. I know, I know, "assault rifle" is a dumb term, and I've adopted the policy of using "para-military rifle" myself, but the term "assault-rifle" is used in most mass-media accounts of crimes involving para-military rifles.

Believe me, I've seen much worse reporting on gun crimes.

camslam
February 21, 2009, 11:18 AM
CB900F: I don't know if or when it will get to the point you are talking about, but I can tell you this.

There IS going to be a major shooting at a school sometime this year, and WHEN that happens, the morons that sent a letter to Obama this last week about gun imports, http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=428967, will be out in force pushing for more stupid gun laws.

Let's avoid making this a political thread, but the media, law enforcement, and a good majority of our elected leaders are all complicit in the lies that pervade this society about guns and their use.

It is rare if ever I read quotes in support of the 2nd amendment and citizens rights to keep and bear arms, coming from any major urban law enforcement officials.

Then, coupled with the yellow journalism of most of the media these days, you have a perfect "assault" on guns and their owners.

camslam
February 21, 2009, 11:23 AM
Believe me, I've seen much worse reporting on gun crimes.

We all have, but this is just another example of blaming the weapon instead of the cause of the violence.

Isn't it interesting that the ONLY weapons ever blamed for the ills of our society are guns. Nothing ever about knives, feet, fists, hands, bats, alcohol (with or without an accompanying vehicle), or drugs. None of those are remotely demonized on the level that guns are.

JImbothefiveth
February 21, 2009, 11:27 AM
It is rare if ever I read quotes in support of the 2nd amendment and citizens rights to keep and bear arms, coming from any major urban law enforcement officials. Maybe that's one of the reasons they have such crime to begin with.

TexasRifleman
February 21, 2009, 11:38 AM
Don't fall for that. It's not stupidity. It is VERY much intentional use of those terms to promote an agenda of fear and control.

They know very well what they say.

dave from mesa
February 21, 2009, 11:45 AM
Don't fall for that. It's not stupidity. It is VERY much intentional use of those terms to promote an agenda of fear and control.

Agree. They're not stupid they have and agenda. Ever seen a pro gun news reporter? I think not.

Old Fuff
February 21, 2009, 11:47 AM
The mass media (newspapers, TV, etc.) are all centered in urban areas, they are for the most part left of center (sometimes far left) and they all work on the theory that news should be used to promote their agendas and political viewpoints. This can be seen in both the way news is presented, and what news is presented. In any case when it some to firearms what they offer is pure propaganda. :barf:

As for the reporters, generally those with urban backgrounds – which are the majority – don’t know beans about guns. They have absolutely no personal experience with them, and whatever the police department spokesperson tells them must be true. As for the police departments – most urban chiefs are uniformly in favor of the most extreme regulation of guns – and many other civil rights as well. The same can be said of mayors and city councils.

There isn’t much we can do about this, beyond understanding what’s going on. The only good news I can suggest is that many of these urban newspapers are in serious financial trouble. They are losing both readership and advertising. Even the owners of the Chicago Tribune have filed for bankruptcy. Couldn’t happen to nicer people… :evil:

Joe Demko
February 21, 2009, 11:51 AM
It is a puzzlement why, if the antis are so dumb and we are so smart, they have accomplished so much of their agenda; whereas we are almost always concerned with regaining lost ground.
I don't like the anti agenda, and I know many of you enjoy heaping invective on them, but it is always a mistake to underestimate your enemy.
The leading antis are most assuredly not stupid. They may be ignorant of technical matters relating to guns, but that is ignorance rather than stupidity.
There may be stupid people supporting them among the general populace. I daresay we have more than a few on our side.
Focus, people. You are not in conflict with morons. You are in conflict with people who are quite savvy in the ways of politics and swaying public opinion. They are well funded, they are intelligent, and they have an agenda they want to enact. They are quite content to accomplish it long-term and one little piece at a time.
Respect your enemy's capabilities and learn how best to counter them.

Duke of Doubt
February 21, 2009, 11:52 AM
The Chicago Tribune is a pretty conservative paper for an urban daily. It's the Chicago Sun-Times which is left of center. Remember, it was the Tribune that went after hoplophobe Blago big-time after he tried to punish them financially for their coverage of his misdeeds.

230RN
February 21, 2009, 12:00 PM
It is a puzzlement why, if the antis are so dumb and we are so smart, they have accomplished so much of their agenda; whereas we are almost always concerned with regaining lost ground.
Because we are essentially a bunch of amateurs and hobbyists aligned against a cadre of full-time, salaried, eight-hour-a-day professional anti-gunners.

Big secret, though, so don't pass it around.

Terry, 230RN

Old Fuff
February 21, 2009, 01:02 PM
I haven't ever been accused of underestimating the opposition; at least I hope that’s the case. Over the years I have dealt with enough of them to fully understand where they are coming from.

The urban media I eluded to pushes not just gun control, but in general the whole left-wing agenda of qusi-socialism. The reporters I mentioned may be termed “ignorant,” or “dumb,” (whatever) but the way they present or censor news is deliberate, and in keeping with left-of-center urban dogma.

As for winning or loosing – I would point out that in recent years we haven’t done so badly. All but two states now have some form of licensing individuals so they can carry concealed weapons, and of the rest, two don’t have any legal restrictions at all. While it’s early in the game, the Heller decision will likely prove to be a major milestone. On the other hand the next 4 years may be iffy, but I would note that there is very, very little public support for more gun controls. On the other hand it is unlikely that we will be able to reverse laws passed during earlier years, at least at the present time. It also appears to me that the urban media is loosing some of its influence as people turn to other sources for news.

Bottom line: No, we shouldn’t underestimate what we are up against, but at the same time we shouldn’t overestimate what the other side can accomplish.

camslam
February 21, 2009, 01:20 PM
Focus, people. You are not in conflict with morons. You are in conflict with people who are quite savvy in the ways of politics and swaying public opinion. They are well funded, they are intelligent, and they have an agenda they want to enact. They are quite content to accomplish it long-term and one little piece at a time.

Agreed. It is the stupid morons that keep voting these people in that are the problem. Look at where our country is and if you can tell me with a straight face, either Republicans or Democrats have done well running our country in the last 100 years, I want to see it. Can anyone hear tell me 1, 2, or 3 things that Congress has done that have REALLY improved our country anytime in the last 40 years? I'm talking bottom line, base improvement on the function and quality of our country.

It is a puzzlement why, if the antis are so dumb and we are so smart, they have accomplished so much of their agenda; whereas we are almost always concerned with regaining lost ground.

Puzzle? No. Mystery? No. It could take all day to list the number of issues, events, or initiatives the media has pushed for decades that are bogus, agenda driven, crap. With all due respect to the populace of our country, it is a bunch of blind sheep being led wherever those in power (media) choose to lead them. This isn't a conspiracy theory alert, it is the plain truth.

Especially as generations move forward, you have more people worried about what is going on with American Idol, Paris Hilton, Brittney Spears, and any other celebrity that you want to name, than they are about what is going on in our country.

What was the voter turnout this year? Even in this "historic" election, the numbers were down. How many that voted were actually educated on the issues and KNEW what the candidates, local and federal, really stood for?

How many people in this country can tell you the rules of Survivor, American Idol, The Amazing Race, and any other show on TV, but can't recite the Pledge of Allegiance, don't know who the Vice President is, who the Secretary of State, The Attorney General, The Speaker of the House, or what any of those positions even do?

How many people in this country have actually read the Declaration of Independence or Constitution? Or even small parts of them? How many could name all 10 amendments in the Bill of Rights? Could many even get 4 or 5?

HARDLY.

It is no mystery, our country is in the crapper, gun rights are just one of the issues that are under attack, and until the people of this country pull their heads out of the arse's, we aren't going to see improvement.

What you see in this article, in the media, and in the language of many of our elected leaders is the full manifestation of their ignorance, pride, and stupidity.

I for one am sick of it.

Hostile Amish
February 21, 2009, 01:52 PM
"assualt rifle" can mean ANY rifle in media.
"sniper" can mean ANY rifle in media.

Seriously.

rickomatic
February 21, 2009, 02:26 PM
Like most of these stories, I think it's more a case of ignorance rather than stupidity. It's probably even more so ignorance driven than agenda driven. While the majority of urbanites have an "anti gun" mindset, most aren't as militant about it as say, Sarah Brady, or Paul Helmke or police officials who are beholddin to the politcal class. I believe for the most part, the attitude of journalists is more due to not having been brought up in a gun culture but having been brought up in a culture that is ignorant of them. Therein comes their mindset.
What is the solution? Constant vigilance.........and education. NEVER let a teaching moment go by without your input.

eye5600
February 21, 2009, 02:30 PM
Never underestimate ignorance as an explanation. Media reporting awful on many topics. Media coverage of the Iraq war by so-called "war reporters" got all the facts about everything military wrong as often as not. Every newspaper should hire a military vet as a reporter or editor, and let him review every gun story.

mcwjr13
February 21, 2009, 02:32 PM
Definately premeditated inflamatory language, these articles are used to promote fear and outrage.

The Deer Hunter
February 21, 2009, 04:36 PM
While news casters always use the term "assault rifle" for any kind of shooting.

Any kind of firearm used to shoot, or shoot at, a person is an assault weapon, technically.

Just some food for though.

camslam
February 21, 2009, 10:22 PM
Why do you believe this is going to happen?I note is and when emphasized.
Most year's,thankfully,a major shooting event at a school does not occur.

Really? Isn't it interesting how often gun-free zones get lit up? There are varying degrees of damage, but let's not be naive enough to think that shootings at schools are a strange, infrequent event. Criminals and people know that there will be minimal if any resistance. These shootings happen every year and 2009 will be no different. The only thing undetermined is how bad it will be.

I remember when Columbine hit and I was completely shocked, but now it is no longer shocking as a pattern has been established and when people are unarmed sitting ducks, this is the type of stuff that is going to happen.

--April 16, 2007, Virginia Tech. Thirty-three people were killed today on the campus of Virginia Tech in what appears to be the deadliest shooting rampage in American history, according to federal law-enforcement officials.

— Greenville, Texas. March 7, 2007. A 16-year-old male high school student fatally shot himself while in the band hallway area of the school around 7:15 a.m. No other students were injured. More than 100 parents rushed to the school to remove their students.

— Tacoma, Wash. Jan. 3, 2007. An 18-year-old male high school student was arrested for shooting and killing a 17-year-old male student at their school. The suspect allegedly shot the victim in the face and then stood over him, firing twice more.

— Springfield Township, Pa. Dec. 12, 2006. A 16-year-old male high school shot and killed himself with an AK-47 assault rifle in the hallway of his high school. The student, reportedly despondent over his grades, had the gun concealed in a camouflage duffle bag and fired one round in the ceiling to warn other students to get out of the way before committing suicide.

— Katy, Texas. Oct. 17, 2006. A 16-year-old male high school sophomore committed suicide by shooting himself with a handgun in the school's cafeteria courtyard.

— Nickel Mines, Pa., Oct. 2, 2006. A truck driver walked into a one-room Amish schoolhouse with two rifles, a semi-automatic handgun, and 600 rounds of ammunition, selected all the female students, and shot them execution-style, killing five and seriously wounding six. The man then shot himself, apparently having left suicide notes beforehand.

— Cazenovia, Wis., Sept. 29, 2006. A student walked into a rural school with a pistol and a rifle and shot the principal several times, critically injuring him.

— Bailey, Colo. Sept. 27, 2006. A lone gunman enters a high school and holds six female students hostage, sexually assaults them, kills one of them, and then himself after a four-hour standoff.

— Pittsburgh, Pa. Sept. 17, 2006. Five Duquesne University basketball players are wounded after a shooting on campus after a dance. One of the two shooters was allegedly upset that his date had talked to one of the athletes.

— Hillsborough, N.C. Aug. 30, 2006. After shooting his father to death, a student open fire at his high school, injuring two students. Deputies found guns, ammunition, and homemade pipe bombs in the student's car. The student had emailed Columbine High's principal, telling him that it was "time the world remembered" the shootings at Columbine.

— Essex, Vt. Aug. 24, 2006. A gunman shoots five people, killing two of them, in a rampage through two houses and an elementary school, before wounding himself.

— Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minn. March 21, 2005. The worst school-related shooting incident since the Columbine shootings in April of 1999. Ten killed (shooter killed nine and then himself) and seven injured in rampage by high school student.

— Cumberland City, Tenn. March 2, 2005. School bus driver shot and killed while driving a school bus carrying approximately 20 students by a 14-year-old student who had been reported to administrators by the driver for chewing tobacco on the bus.

— Nine Mile Falls, Wash. Dec. 10, 2004. A 16-year-old high school junior committed suicide at the high school's entryway. A canister holding fireworks, shotgun shells, and rifle cartridges was found in a backpack belonging to the student.

— Joyce, Wash. March 17, 2004. A 13-year-old student shot and killed himself in a school classroom where about 20 other students were present. The boy reportedly brought a .22-caliber rifle hidden in a guitar case and pulled it out during the 10 a.m. class.

— Philadelphia, Pa. Feb. 11, 2004. A 10-year-old student was shot in the face and died after being shot outside a Philadelphia elementary school. A 56-year-old female school crossing guard was also shot in the foot as she tried to scurry children across the street as bullets were flying and children were on the playground.

— Washington, D.C. Feb. 2, 2004. A 17-year-old male high school student died after being shot several times and another student was injured after shots were fired near the school's cafeteria.

— Henderson, Nev. Jan. 21, 2004. Gunman shoots and kills a hostage in his car on school campus. The gunman was allegedly looking for his ex-girlfriend as he searched the school full of children in an after-school program.

— Cold Spring, Minn. Sept. 24, 2003. Two students shot and killed by a 15-year-old boy at Rocori High School.

— Red Lion, Pa. April 24, 2003. Principal of Red Lion Area Junior High is fatally shot in the chest by a 14-year-old student, who then committed suicide, as students gather in the cafeteria for breakfast.

— New Orleans, La. April 14, 2003. One 15-year-old killed and three students wounded at John McDonough High School by gunfire from four teenagers in a gang-related shooting.

— October 7, 2002. Bowie, Md. A 13-year-old by was shot and critically wounded by the DC-area sniper outside Benjamin Tasker Middle School.

— New York, N.Y. Jan. 15, 2002. Two students at Martin Luther King Junior High School in Manhattan were seriously wounded when an 18-year-old opened fire in the school.

— Caro, Mich.. Nov. 12, 2001. A 17-year-old student took two hostages and the Caro Learning Center before killing himself.

— Ennis, Texas. May 15, 2001. A 16-year-old sophomore upset over his relationship with a girl, took 17 hostages in English class, and shot and killed himself and the girl.

— Gary, Ind. March 30, 2001. 17-year-old expelled from Lew Wallace High School kills classmate.

— Granite Hills, Calif. March 22, 2001. One teacher and three students wounded by a student at Granite Hills school.

— Willamsport, Pa. March 7, 2001. Classmate wounded by a 14-year-old girl, in the cafeteria of Bishop Newuman High School.

— Santee, Calif. March 5, 2001. A 15-year-old student killed two fellow students and wounded 13 others, while firing from a bathroom at Santana High School in San Diego County.

— Baltimore, Md. Jan. 17, 2001. 17-year-old student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton-Eastern High School.

— New Orleans, La. Sept. 26, 2000. Two students wounded in a gun fight at Woodson Middle School.

— Lake Worth, Fla. May 26, 2000. A 13-year-old honor killed his English teacher, Barry Grunow, on the last day of classes after the teacher refused to let him talk to two girls in his classroom.

— Mount Morris Township, Mich. Feb. 29, 2000. A 6-year-old boy shot and killed a 6-year-old girl at Buell Elementary School with a .32 caliber handgun.

— Fort Gibson, Okla. Dec. 6, 2000. A 13-year-old boy, armed with a handgun, opened fire outside Fort Gibson Middle school, wounding four classmates.

— Deming, N.M. Nov. 19, 1999. 12-year-old boy came to school dressed in camouflage and shoots 13-year-old girl with a .22 caliber as students were returning from lunch.

— Conyers, Georgia. May 20, 1999. 15-year-old sophomore opens fire with a rifle and a handgun on Heritage High School students arriving for classes, injuring six.

— Littleton, Colo. April 20, 1999. Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves at Columbine High School.

— Springfield, Ore. May 21, 1998. Two teenagers were killed and more than 20 people hurt when a teenage boy opened fire at a high school after killing his parents. Kip Kinkel, 17, was sentenced to nearly 112 years in prison.

— Fayetteville, Tenn. May 19, 1998. Three days before his graduation, an honor student opened fire at a high school, killing a classmate who was dating his ex-girlfriend. Jacob Davis, 18, was sentenced to life in prison.

— Jonesboro, Ark. March 24, 1998. Two boys, ages 11 and 13, fired on their middle school from nearby woods, killing four girls and a teacher and wounding 10 others. Both boys were later convicted of murder and can be held until age 21.

— West Paducah, Ky. Dec. 1, 1997. Three students were killed and five wounded at a high school. Michael Carneal, then 14, later pleaded guilty but mentally ill to murder and is serving life in prison.

— Pearl, Miss. Oct. 1, 1997. Sixteen-year-old Luke Woodham of fatally shot two students and wounded seven others after stabbing his mother to death. He was sentenced the following year to three life sentences.

THANK GOODNESS PEOPLE ARE SAFE AT SCHOOLS BECAUSE THERE ARE NO GUNS ALLOWED! Can anyone say stupid, stupid, stupid?

ThrottleJockey
February 21, 2009, 10:30 PM
This just goes to show how ineffective gun laws are, "assault rifles" are illegal to posses in chicago! Also, I'm still waiting for a definition of "assault rifle". Because I seriously doubt the weapon used was automatic, just scary looking!

MetalMan52
February 22, 2009, 12:37 AM
There was in interview with a relative of one of those killed in the shooting and he stated that "he knew the lifestyle they were living would kill one of them, that they needed to get away and change". He didn't go into what that lifestyle was but my guess is gang or drug related.

I've only seen the interview once on tv, since then it's all been, teens killed by assault rifle.
The families have my sympathies but who's little darlings are out there shooting up the hood? They belong to someone, they're not being imported into their places.
Pat

camslam
February 22, 2009, 12:43 AM
Johnny: I don't know if the list is complete or comprehensive, but it is fairly eye opening when you look at the sheer number of events involving a gun at schools.

It goes to the point I tried to make regarding gun-free zones and the stupidity that is associated with making them gun free.

The article does not have me worked up, while I find it sad, pathetic, hilarious, disturbing, and alarming that our law enforcement and media can't find the truth from their butts, at the end of the day these articles have been around since the invention of the gun and the media, and they will be with us as long as both exist.

I am worked up, and I am fed up, but that is with the current state of our country and the direction it is headed. There is no such thing as personal responsibility in our country any longer. I tried to buy my "gimme" shirt this weekend and they were all sold out. :barf:

The lies, myths, misdirection, and deceit that have been a part of the economic breakdown, recession, numerous bailouts, handouts, and all around pity party are made up of the same misinformation that the opening article contained. Blatant lies, ignorance, and stupidity instead of the facts, and thinking before speaking or writing.

The gun rights battle will continue, and our country will continue to circle the drain, so for now I say, keep fighting the good fight and do what you can.

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