Slugs out of a SxS...?


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TMM
February 21, 2009, 01:40 PM
i've got a nice Stoeger 20 gauge SxS (24" barrel, 3" chamber)... i was wondering if decent accuracy can be had with slugs from a SxS? i figure it would be fun to shoot slugs from it every now and again, but the double barrel would probably hinder the accuracy, no?
Also, i seem to remember that there are rifled choke tubes. does anyone have experience with those, or are rifled slugs better? on the note of chokes, does choke size matter when shooting slugs? my two tubes have three notches on one, and four on the other... i must say i don't know what choke that relates to.

thanks

tmm

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Hungry Seagull
February 21, 2009, 02:54 PM
I strongly discourage slugs in that gun.

I googled the weapon in question and found myself with what appears to be a traditional English gun that is used to hunt quail, birds, pheasants etc.

I dont see any choke information on this weapon during my brief search on this gun.

So, my thought is to look at pellet type ammunition. There are some that will carry a dense pattern a distance. I certainly dont want to be hit by both barrels of pellets, what a mess.

My first thought with this weapon is blasting clays or flying birds out of the sky or one that was flushed out of tall grass by a hunting dog.

Slugs? Dont. If you did... I dont think it will go well.

HoosierQ
February 21, 2009, 03:05 PM
I may presume too much here but I think Seagull is discouraging the use of slugs because the chokes typically found in SxS shotguns are not made to handle a big chuck of lead. Chokes are there to pattern shot and by definition have to "choke" down on that shot to get the job done. Some shotguns, likewise are not well suited to steel shot for a different but related reason...those very hard pellets, hitting the choke can have adverse effects on the barrel.

A 24" SxS 20ga is not the sort of shotgun designed for (or even designed to accomodate) slugs.

In contrast, your basic short barrel pump gun (a riot gun if you will) usually has a cylinder bore and thus no narrowing at the muzzle. Those are fine for slugs. And there are of course guns built from the ground up for slugs.

rcmodel
February 21, 2009, 03:11 PM
Stoger choke tubes are marked with notches as follows:

ONE = Full;
TWO = Improved Modified;
THREE = Modified;
FOUR = Improved Cylinder;
FIVE = Cylinder

So you have Modified and Improved Cylinder tubes in your gun.

The Imp. Cyl would be perfect for rifled slugs, and the Modified would also probably work fairly well. They are made from very soft lead, and are hollow, so they are easier on chokes then a dense charge of hard small shot.

However, the problem with slugs in double-guns is, the barrels will only shoot to the same place at one specific range where the intersecting bore lines cross over.

That might be at 15 yards, or 30 yards, or maybe depending on your barrel regulation, never.

The only way to find out is to try it.

Rifled choke tubes are for sabot slugs, and there the accuracy problem would be compounded because they are more accurate and likely to shoot to two different groups with each barrel then rifled slugs.

At any rate, it will not hurt to try rifled slugs and see what your results are.

However, in your little bird gun, I would stick with 2 3/4" slugs, not 3" ones.

rc

Deer Hunter
February 21, 2009, 03:13 PM
Yours is a lot like mine. I have a 12 gauge coach gun. I've shot slugs out of mine with no problem.

MCgunner
February 21, 2009, 03:52 PM
I've shot 'em out of a full choked SxS, no sweat. Foster slugs are made to be fired from a tight choke and not damage. That's what the "rifling" on the slug is for. I prefer to use the mod barrel, however.

This will vary with the gun. My old Saraqueta shoots about 2" off at 50 yards from the barrel regulation, my 20 gauge Spartan coach gun is more like 6". IOW, with the Spartan, I have to hold 6" left with the left barrel and 6" right with the right barrel to be on target at 50 yards. That's the problem as I see it with a SxS. I can hit pretty danged accurate to 50 yards, but past that and it's iffy on the windage. That's satisfactory for me for a trail or combination gun mostly for heavy cover and 20 gauge foster slugs aren't real effective, loose a lot of umph out past 50 yards, anyway. I don't actively deer or hog hunt with the gun, but up to 50 yards, I could lay one out with it. Just an extra dimension the little gun has. I can load the left barrel with a slug through the cylinder choke and the right barrel with a shot load through a IC or Mod choke and I can take birds to small game to that hog that I might come across. Makes a pretty decent survival long gun, too, as I can take it down and fit it in my pack. Another thing I like about that scenario is that 20 gauge ammo is smaller and lighter than 12, can have a few more rounds along for the weight. The main thing I use the gun for is doves, but it has multiple uses. That's why I like the gun so much, and the fact that it's a pretty awesome dove gitter.

TMM
February 21, 2009, 05:51 PM
thanks for the replies...

i'm confident that the gun can handle it. it's pretty solid for a 20 gauge, and rcmodel has a point about the ductility of the slug.

shooting slugs from this gun is something i will probably do very rarely, but i don't think i'll be getting another shotgun soon, so i'd like to know what this gun is capable of.

tmm

The Deer Hunter
February 21, 2009, 06:11 PM
However, in your little bird gun, I would stick with 2 3/4" slugs, not 3" ones.

Lol! 2 3/4" slugs are bad enough!

Jack2427
February 21, 2009, 08:18 PM
My .02 again: I have a few short doubles, ranging from the Stevens 311, to Stoeger Coach Guns, to a 18" Browning SXS (I didn't do it!). I have shot slugs from all of them with no adverse effects than somewhat varied accuracy at longer (over 40 yards) ranges.
As to chokes, you can shoot any slug through any choke-repeat any choke. In fact many Ithaca "police specials" were simply Deerslayers with full choke barrels(my issued SG in VN was exactly that-even still said Deerslayer on the receiver).
The "rfiled" slugs may as well not be rifled, they fly nose first(mostly) because of weight distribution in the projectile. The aft end of the slug is a hollow skirt which will simply swage down through any choke, in fact you can deform some of them with finger pressure! The rifling is absolutely useless and has no effect whatsoever.
Sabot slugs can also be fired through any choke, but using them in a non rifled bore is a waste of money. The sabot round is substantially smaller in diameter than the all lead slug, to fit the smaller rifled bore. In a smoothbore it will just rattle down the barrel, and except for the most extra full choke will probably not even engage the choke at all. The sabot slug is usually about 50 caliber with the rest of the bore being taken up by the plastic sabot casing that engages the rifling, and drops away after firing, leaving the rotating slug going downrange. The sabot will engage the rifled choke tubes which are much smaller than the smoothbore. The rifled choke tubes actually give quite good accuracy in some guns.
With doubles you never know what you will get. I have a cheap Russian double that came with 2 45/70 inserts. The damn thing shoots the 45/70 slugs almost exactly parallel to 80 yards! I put a 2X scope on the thing and it is a really good big game rifle as long as I remember to put the right tube in the right barrel(I never take them out anymore). But the same gun is absolutely wild with any 12 gauge slugs! Will not group them in 5" at 20 yards from either barrel, and the barrels group them at least 6" apart. Go figure.

Jim Watson
February 21, 2009, 08:40 PM
Friend of mine tried slugs in his SKB 200 20 gauge. Who knows where they were going, we didn't. Rather than fool with it, he broke the piggy bank and bought a real express rifle, a .450 BPE.

I have read of sighting one barrel of a double for slugs and loading the other with buckshot.

In 1939 you could get a Walther double shotgun set up for Brenneke slugs.

More recently, Bernardelli had a slug model double but I don't see it on their www site. Then again I don't speak Italian and cannot get the English version up.

Dave McCracken
February 21, 2009, 09:34 PM
Each shotgun is a law unto itself as to whether it will group slugs.

With a SxS, it's common to have one barrel group well while the other fails to keep them in the same Zip Code.

Slugs in a light bird gun will rock you plenty. But try them anyway.

MCgunner
February 22, 2009, 10:24 AM
I don't find recoil on 20 gauge, even in my light coach gun, that bad. Heck, I even bench the gun. Now, put a 12 gauge slug in my light SxS Sarasqueta and my GAWD! I fire it off a rest and I'm pointing 90 degrees skyward after the recoil. It WILL wake you up and get you in shape for a 600 nitro express. ROFLMAO!

TMM
February 22, 2009, 11:41 AM
as long as the slug weight is the same as the shot weight, i don't see how the recoil can be different, unless the solid lead mass is different from numerous pellets?
one of these days i'll get some slugs and see what happens. hey, at the very least, i'll have fun.

tmm

Hungry Seagull
February 22, 2009, 11:50 AM
No sir, that slug closes off the entire barrel. It is a mass. With either a plastic recoil absorber, wad or spinner behind it.

You fire, that pressure is going to have to go somewhere. And those slugs weight more than shot.

Short of climbing onto your gun and chaining it to the ground you are going to get a surprise when firing slug for the first time. Dont do like I did firing a big mag slug becuase I was stupid and didnt know better. That one went who knows where because of the fire filling my senses and the rumble of the recoil knocking me silly and not in position to reload. In fact I almost put the gun down and went to turn it right back in right then and there.

Then I see spouse fire her slug with low recoil and on target. I dont think I wanted to show my wife that hubby cannot shoot. So I get back up on the line. =)

Thats my story. I have confessed to wondering what you can do if you poured a ounce and half of small shot into that barrel with lots of powder on the bottom.

I recall a you tube video of a kid firing both barrels with slugs at the same time. I have to crawl the tube and see if I can find it again, the recoil put the person like straight down into the ground.

MCgunner
February 22, 2009, 12:46 PM
TMM, I invite you to test your theory....:D Everyone needs to experience the slug in a light shotgun, if nothing else, to understand that a .30-06 is really mild on the shoulder.....:D Rifle guys often talk about "excessive recoil", to which a guy that's fired slugs, or even 20 or 30 3 1/2" 10 gauge goose loads in a morning, will laugh. Honestly, even the 10 gauge is mild compared to a 12 gauge 2 3/4" foster slug in a 6.5 lb side by side. Now, I'm sorta unwilling to try a 3.5" 10 gauge foster slug, but at least the gun is 9 lbs of metal.

Now, just why the 20 gauge slug is MUCH easier on the shoulder even in a light coach gun, I really don't know. But, I do know there's a world of difference in the recoil of that gun with slugs and the 12. I can't explain it, but the 20 isn't bad at all, well, by comparison. I guess it's just a lighter chunka lead with less powder behind it. Come to think of it, it's comparable with my 6 lb Hawken Hunter carbine with a 385 grain minie ball and 90 grains of pyrodex. Stands to reason since it's basically a little over 50 cal.

Virginian
February 22, 2009, 12:56 PM
Where did the idea that slugs and/or buckshot are so potent and recoil so severe come from? Recoil is determined by weight and velocity out the front of the gun, not hype. Slugs do not weigh more than shot. Buckshot does not either.

Go find some old Winchester Super Double X, 3" Magnum, 1-7/8 ounces of #2 or #4 copper plated shot, and turn that loose out of a plain old seven pound Wingmaster, and change your perspective instantly. Or cook up some of Ballistic Specialties barn burners for a day afield. Or shoot 2-1/4 ounce 10 gauge 3-1/2 ounce magnums at wood ducks. Or any 3-1/2 incher I know of out of a Benelli SBE.

I notice they haven't come out with any reduced or "managed" recoil loads for waterfowl. Hmmmmmmmmm

Hungry Seagull
February 22, 2009, 12:58 PM
A Civil War .57 ball or minie shot canister lumbering down range from a cannon or soldier will deliver a huge hit onto a man and it's safe to say the velocity involved is much slower than today.

TMM
February 22, 2009, 01:34 PM
MCgunner, i definately will be testing my theory... and i just so happen to have an '06 to compare it with! i was just browsing cabelas for some ammo to order soon...

tmm

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