Family Standard Issue Sidearm


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lmcwig1
February 22, 2009, 12:16 AM
New member here, 1st Post, here it goes;

I am a big proponent of self reliance and family preparedness, having seen first hand the effects of those who rely on Uncle Sam rather than themselves and the social break downs that can occur as I saw first hand during Hurricanes Katrina, Rita, in New Orleans and most recently Gustav while I am at school at LSU in Baton Rouge. I am searching for a standard issue sidearm for my immediate family of four and possibly more extended relatives who would "bug out" to our new remote rural home.

I work at the gun counter of Cabela's and get the chance to get my hands on a lot of firearms but that doesn't inherently make me John Browning either, so here is the criteria of my sidearm decision:

9mm or similar (while we are a gun savy family I am not sure how my mother and aunts would handle a .45acp consistently)
Hi-cap
Ergonomics with possible customization of grip size
Magazine availability
Night Sights and or Crimson Trace compatibility
I'd prefer no manual safeties (grip safeties are fine)

I am currently considering:
XDm
Smith and wesson M&P
Sig P226
Beretta M9A1

what are your thoughts? Have I left something out?

Thanks in advance for any input/advice you have

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2RCO
February 22, 2009, 12:40 AM
I'd go with the Beretta M9A1 out of what you have. Although all are pretty good choices.

bratch
February 22, 2009, 12:44 AM
I've got G19s and 1911s for this role.

One thing to consider is getting something that has a .22 conversion available. You can get some easy trigger time in for everyone and not break the bank. After a few hundred rounds of .22 they should be familiar with the pistol. Add some centerfire for the recoil and noise and atleast they wouldn't be trying to use a gun they've never shot if the SHTF.

shootistpd27
February 22, 2009, 12:46 AM
I would go with the Taurus Judge 45lc/410. It seems like a funny big kind of gun but I recommend this weapon for anyone who is not very proficient in marksmanship or weapon handling. You point and shoot and unless you intentionally fire a warning shot, the 410 is going to hit the bad guy. I bought one for my wife and she loves it. I feel very confident about leaving her at home alone with my daughter as long as the Judge is loaded staggered with a 410 first followed by a long colt then repeat. It will get the job done with very little room for operator error.

GRIZ22
February 22, 2009, 01:00 AM
i would suggest you consider a 4" 357 revolver. Easiest manual of arms, no trobule racking a slide,wide variety of ammunition power levels available over the counter, easiest malfunction drill, etc

I'd pick a S&W L frame or GP100.

If you're stuck on an auto I'd look at a Glock, proably the 19 as it is the best all around size.

highorder
February 22, 2009, 01:01 AM
You point and shoot and unless you intentionally fire a warning shot, the 410 is going to hit the bad guy.

Probably true, but the ballistics leave much to be desired.

Considering the loads available for the .410, you would be better served with a full cylinder of .45 Colt; that precludes any usefulness of the Judge.

I would opt for high capacity and light recoil, probably the 226 from your list.

i would suggest you consider a 4" 357 revolver.

Seconded.

polekitty
February 22, 2009, 01:17 AM
All of those suggestions are good. The one i like best is the .357. No "manual of arms" required. Simple to load. Trigger almost anyone can manage, but not so light as to let it off accidentally. A "high cap" auto is good, she can "spray and pray" but if the lady can't rack the slide, go with something else. If she can't clear a jam go with something else. A "reasonably" heavy revolver, preferably not a "snubbie," is easy for a lady to handle, and the weight will hold down the recoil. A .357 loaded with 38+p is effective and controllable. And, you can get a good .357 at a reasonable cost, and practice for all probable users won't break the bank.

NotSoFast
February 22, 2009, 01:23 AM
The XD(M) has interchangeable backstraps, allowing each individual to choose what fits best for them. Knowing that women generally have smaller hands, this could definitely be a factor. Talk it over with at least one of your ladies and go do a fit test on all your choices to see what they would prefer.

shootistpd27
February 22, 2009, 01:25 AM
If i got hit with 6 shot at close range. i just changed my itinerary. granted its not 000 buck but i want my wife to hit the bad guy and 6 shot will do some damage. I just wish I would have bought the new 3 inch judge mag but they werent out yet.

lmcwig1
February 22, 2009, 02:19 AM
Thanks for the very quick responses, regarding your comments;

I bought my mother a judge last Christmas and she loves it, we have a bit of a copperhead problem on our property and it works great in that role but I am not personally confident in the stopping ability of the (I believe) 3 pellets in 000 buck at anything but 5 yards and prefer the .45LC in that regard. (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41_2.htm) Also even if I were to go that route we haven't had a Judge on the shelf at Cabela's in at least 2 months and the store I work at is (according to the store manager) the 5th largest firearms distributor nationwide. So I would be hard pressed to put 6 in the ole gun safe anytime soon.

As for .357, there are a few spread out amongst family members but again the limited capacity removes them from consideration in my mind for a SHTF gun.

Also all the members of my family are familiar with a variety of firearms, either being the daughters of a long time NOPD cop or growing up in rural LA

Thanks again for all your help...keep it coming

Eightball
February 22, 2009, 03:04 AM
The 226 or the Smith and Wesson M&P would be the winners, for me. My roommate's M&P9 has been flawless (outside of problems with reloaded ammo), and would easily accommodate most any/everyone in your family. It also has the simplest manual of arms.

That being said, 226s are wonderful firearms, in my experience. They have (IMO) a better trigger than the other options you're looking at, I find their ergonomics to be darn near perfect, they tend to be reliable as heck, night sights AND CT (why limit to one or the other?) both exist for 'em, I believe--or alternatively, get a guide-rod laser if one of the smaller people in your proposed repertoire can't take the grips of the CT, but the red dot still seems handy.

A thought that might push the 226 into the lead is that the slide release is at a much more intuitive position, for me--and that might possibly make a difference with the other shooters who might be using the intended item.

And, why rule out revolvers? A Smith and Wesson 620 has 7 rounds of either .357 or .38 special (tailored to the shooter), and the TRR8 has 8 rounds. Revolvers tend to be easier to work with for most everyone, simple, and there's a bajillion grip options for 'em, and 7/8 rounds has been more than enough for plenty of people over the last century.

wcwhitey
February 22, 2009, 09:42 AM
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_cougar.php

May I suggest the Stoeger Cougar. A high capacity 9mm that is every bit the quality of a Beretta (licensed copy) at 2/3 the price. MSRP is $469 but I have seen them go for $389, a good deal in my book. I posted the link above seems like a perfect gun for your stated purpose.

Lonestar.45
February 22, 2009, 10:17 AM
I think you'd have a hard time beating the Glock 19 for that role, especially if the family you're talking about is already familiar with firearms. I have two, and recently put a .22 conversion on one of the frames for lots of trigger time. It is a perfect training tool and with the 9mm slide and 15 rd mags, easy manual of arms, easy breakdown, and rock solid durability, there's nothing better.

However, not all hands fit the Glock grip, and if that is a major problem I'd maybe look at one of the others on your list. They are all good guns. It's just that I think the Glock beats the others out in mag availability, durability, and ease of breakdown.

All that said, don't mistake the above for being glockaholism. My true favorite is my 1911, but I don't think that would be good for the role you're talking about.

verdun59
February 22, 2009, 10:23 AM
Do yourself and your family a favor and look at the CZ75b.

jaholder1971
February 22, 2009, 10:36 AM
As for .357, there are a few spread out amongst family members but again the limited capacity removes them from consideration in my mind for a SHTF gun.


Six well placed hits trump 19 rounds fired in the Bad guy's general direction, in hopes that it is Allah's will that one makes a hit.

The Lone Haranguer
February 22, 2009, 03:06 PM
Only two of the guns on your list (M&P and XD) have the ability to quickly change grip sizes. Of those, having owned or tried both, I personally prefer the M&P. I know of no way to make the SIG's or Beretta M9's grips smaller. A Beretta that does have this capability is the PX4.

Shrinkmd
February 22, 2009, 04:13 PM
S&W 5906. All steel is the only way to fly. Just get a strong belt!

SwampWolf
February 22, 2009, 08:52 PM
Good post and a hearty welcome to The High Road. I like Shrinkmd's suggestion (any "third generation" Smith is never a bad idea) but I've got to agree with those who recommended the Beretta 92-selecting the military's current service sidearm is also never a bad idea.

Quadkid
February 22, 2009, 11:21 PM
bring her to a rental range and have her test out a bunch of guns. When i was looking for my first pistol last month a lot of people told me to get a certain gun. A lot of the recommended guns, however, i wasnt consistant with or felt comfortable with.

When it comes down to confidence and consistancy versus caliper and capacity, id take the first any day when it comes to protecting family and friends.

batmann
February 23, 2009, 11:55 AM
Of all your choices, I lean towards the S&W MP 9. It is building a great track record, is very ergonomic, has changeable grips, holds 17 9MM, has the rails for a light, if desired, has a life time warranty and is the type of weapon a family could learn to shoot well on.
As for getting something that can be converted to .22 for practice, those conversions never seem to work right, at least in my experience. If you buy 9MM in bulk, it is almost as cheap when you factor in the cost of the conversion and you will shooting the same rouonds you may need experience on latter.

bratch
February 23, 2009, 12:05 PM
As for getting something that can be converted to .22 for practice, those conversions never seem to work right, at least in my experience. If you buy 9MM in bulk, it is almost as cheap when you factor in the cost of the conversion and you will shooting the same rouonds you may need experience on latter.

I'm going to have to disagree on this one.

I have an Advantage Arms kit for my Glock and it runs like a champ; pretty much what I've heard from everyone about them.

The AA kit is $250. A case of 9mm is about $225. So after your first 1200 rounds or so you've paid for the conversion.

That said I agree with you that the M&P is a nice pistol.

sohcgt2
February 23, 2009, 09:08 PM
Standard Issue Sidearm to me indicates a willingness to seek and aquire professional training for the firearm of choice. If this is true then your only limits are budget and imagination. If no training or limited training is in the plan then I agree with all who suggested a revolver in .357 Magnum since it will fire a variety of ammo from very low recoil .38 special rounds to very high impact .357 loads. It also requires less presence of mind to resolve a misfire.

Quoheleth
February 23, 2009, 09:26 PM
I would either go with a 3" Ruger Sp101 or the Smith M&P series. If you go M&Ps, you could even mix up service size (4") and compacts (3") to give you the full range of carry options.

I own both a 3" SP101 and full -size M&P. Like 'em both, though for different reasons. My SP101 will be my primary carry weapon, but I expect the M&P will get some travel time, too.

The SP101 gives you .357 firepower from a heavier and more manageable package than an airweight Smith (i.e. model 360), yet is still carryable without a problem. The M&P-series gives you quantity of firepower in a reliable, accurate, customizable (!) and rail-equipped firearm.

In my search for a new, more concealable CCW, I'm mostly looking at slim 9mms, like the Kel Tec PF9, but in the back of my mind is the nagging thought to pursue the smaller M&P9. That way, it's one weapon system whether carrying Big Brother or Little Brother.

Q

stormspotter
February 23, 2009, 09:58 PM
Another CZ fan here. Only I would look into the CZ P-01. Lighter than the all steel 75B, has a shorter trigger reach (my wife likes that), has a decocker, thin grips are available, designed for NATO pressure rounds and so-on.

Check out the CZforum for more info.

David E
February 23, 2009, 10:35 PM
First of all, you need to check with the "family members" to see if they'd even be interested in being armed. Not all of them will be.

Second of all, of the guns listed, the XD or M&P have major advantages over the Sig and Beretta and CZ. The big one is, they're easier to shoot!

.

Ken Rainey
February 23, 2009, 10:37 PM
Welcome! .... From your list, the M&P 9mm....not from your list...Glock 17 or 19, a .22 conversion would be great if needed. I'd recommend a .357/.38 revolver but the double action pull of the trigger is something that has to be mastered...once done you're good to go, but having trained men and women with both, the Glock was a clear winner in ease of shooting with ease of maintenance....luck to ya....

oh, I've got a cousin on the PD down there and I come down every now and again to visit and ride our Harley's together.....

Take care,
Ken

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