10mm Vs. .45ACP


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miller1209
February 22, 2009, 04:08 PM
I'm a fairly new handgun enthusiast, and I was wondering which would be better for a home protection weapon, a 10mm or a .45?

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TexasRifleman
February 22, 2009, 04:13 PM
Truth is those are both fine, you really wouldn't regret one over the other.
Performance wise it's close enough to not matter for self defense use.

10mm is gonna cost you more to shoot if that's a factor.

10mm is gonna give you 1 or 2 rounds more per magazine.

10mm is the tiniest bit harder to control in a full power load if you don't practice much.

.45 is so widely available it's not even funny, 10mm is much more scarce in the retail environment.


But really you're down to personal preference.

More guns out there in .45, and cheaper ammo. Even with that I prefer 10mm but that's simply because I wanted the extra rounds in the mag.

phish
February 22, 2009, 04:14 PM
uh oh

seporith
February 22, 2009, 04:15 PM
By your question and honesty about your shooting experience may I suggest you go to a reputable shop/instructor and get some experience with several handguns and different calibers as firearms and the rounds are subject to your personal taste. Also if you can't hit your target or are not comfortable with your purchase you will not enjoy the shooting. Shooting can be a joy and not just for defense. Best to you, Anthony

p85
February 22, 2009, 04:18 PM
given the choices the poster gave, I would choose the 45 acp. (home defense) however, I happen to own both, but thats because I happen to like to collect.

hso
February 22, 2009, 04:23 PM
Whether a handgun points naturally for you is at least as important as caliber so you should find that out first before making up your mind about anything else.

Since 10mm and .45 ACP are pretty closely matched you'll find that there aren't a lot of arguments making one "better" than the other for self defense. Round count can be higher in a handgun shooting 10mm, but not more than a couple of rounds more than .45. Grip size may be a bit slimmer in 10mm, so that may be a deciding factor depending upon whether a larger or smaller grip diameter is desired (again, get the gun that fits).

As to "better" home protection firearm, shotgun. Most bang for the buck.

oldgold
February 22, 2009, 04:31 PM
Wow ! Two reasonable replies and a phish.

Seporith has it right. Get instruction and something you can shoot and shoot a lot. A bullseye with a .22 means a lot more than a near miss with a .500 S&W.

Have fun,,,goldy

jkingrph
February 22, 2009, 04:42 PM
I have a couple of stainless Colt Gold Cups, one 45acp the othe 10mm auto.

Honestly the 10 is by far the most accurate. I have had some problems with commercial ammo in the past, PMC in fact, that was so hot loaded it was bulging and occasionally blowing sidewalls out of cases. I threw the rest away and have only shot reloads since with no problems. It is much flatter shooting than the 45 and will shoot accuratly at much longer ranges.

jmr40
February 22, 2009, 06:43 PM
Both are fine but as a new shooter I would suggest 45 between the 2. Actually a 9mm would be a better choice for new shooter.

General Geoff
February 22, 2009, 06:55 PM
The 10mm has more kinetic energy, has a flatter trajectory, will likely allow for more rounds in a magazine, and is also more expensive, has more recoil, and less selection of firearms chambered for it.

For a new handgun shooter I'd recommend the .45ACP for practicality/economical reasons. By all means if your budget is unlimited, though, check out 10mm as well.


edit; for what it's worth I'm a huge 10mm fan. I just know that it's not the most practical cartridge in the world.. :)

Vern Humphrey
February 22, 2009, 06:59 PM
The .45 ACP is a duplicate of the .45 round developed by Smith and Wesson. S&W wanted to sell the Army their No. 3 "Schofield" revolver, but the Army wanted it in .45. But the Schofield cylinder was too short to chamber the .45 Colt. So S&W developed a "short" .45 that could be used in both the S&W and Colt.

The Army (which manufactured it's own ammo in those days) decided to issue only the .45 S&W development -- and the troops loved it! It had less recoil, but was just as effective in combat.

The short version of the .45 developed indentical ballistics to the later .45 ACP -- in fact, the .45 ACP was developed to meet those ballistics.

Bottom line is, the .45 ACP is probably all the average shooter can handle when the chips are down. While there are those who can handle more, added power and recoil (above what the .45 ACP produces) tends to be a handicap for the average shooter.

CYANIDEGENOCIDE
February 22, 2009, 07:03 PM
10mm packs a slightly bigger punch, while .45 is more common and a little cheaper. I recommend .45 because I prefer it, but you will be in a good place no matter what you choose.

ozarkhillbilly
February 22, 2009, 07:57 PM
If you can handle it the 10mm is the best self defense round out there (in a semi auto). The thing is, most people cannot, so in that case the 45 is better, but keep in mind that many folks have a hard time with a 45acp. If that is the case then a 9mm that you practice with a lot beats either one.

azhunter122
February 22, 2009, 08:01 PM
I'd prefer the .45 for all the reasons posted above.

HisSoldier
February 22, 2009, 08:06 PM
I've been thinking about a DW 10 MM, and was wondering if the commonly available 10 MM ammo is downloaded from it's original issue to the FBI, and if it is, would the DW Razorback handle loads that duplicated the original?

RustyShackelford
February 22, 2009, 08:23 PM
For general use, I'd get a .45acp in 200 JHP +P or a 230gr +P JHP. Speer Gold Dot, CorBon or Remington Golden Saber should do well. :D
The 10mm is very powerful but does not feed well in all regular pistols and it is not as common as the .45acp or 9mmNATO.
See AZ v Fish, a court case where a retired teacher used a 10mm 1911a1 and it was a major factor to the jury, :uhoh:.

RS

sqlbullet
February 22, 2009, 11:29 PM
AZ v Fish was the result of a failure of the defense to do anything even remotely similar to a passable job of refuting claims made by the prosecution.

I am unaware of consistent feeding issues the 10mm has. It fed great in every 10 I have owned or shot. That pretty much covers the spectrum of 1911's, Glock's and CZ clones.

But, it really is preference for home defense. If you don't reload, I would suggest the 45, as you are more likely to buy a box of rounds locally and practice when the 10mm may be harder to feed. If you plan to reload, or are willing to buy 1,000 rounds at a time online and keep them in stock, it is back to a complete draw.

jimsmith
February 23, 2009, 12:15 AM
IMO, you need to find the gun that fits your hand and shooting style. Each type has subtle and not so subtle differences and after fondling as many as you can at the counter, or renting them at the range, you will find one that is meant for you. You may find that the manufacturer of the gun you want does not offer a 10mm, which could make the decision for you.

Regardless, a bad guy would not want to be hit square by either round so I don't think you can go wrong choosing between the two.

A few people brought up education, and that is more important than the round or the gun. Learning how to handle the firearm you own the proper way can bring years of good times and the associated peace of mind that comes with it.

Gryffydd
February 23, 2009, 02:32 AM
AZ v Fish was the result of a failure of the defense to do anything even remotely similar to a passable job of refuting claims made by the prosecution.
Thank you! It's nice to hear somebody say this. I listened to an interview with one of the jurors, and she said that the fact that he carried hollow point ammunition really disturbed her. :barf: I can't imagine how ideas like that were not smashed down by the defense.

Back on topic...I agree with pretty much everyone so far. If you were a reloader and wanted a gun you could also take hiking in the wilderness, I'd say the 10mm in a heartbeat. But in the confines of a house, and especially on 2 legged critters the 10mm just doesn't have much of an advantage. Or better said, the .45acp is plenty. It's also cheaper, more common by FAR, easier to shoot, and available in just about every auto pistol design. All of this, and it really doesn't give up much for thin skinned light boned bipeds.

Drusagas
February 23, 2009, 02:40 AM
As to "better" home protection firearm, shotgun. Most bang for the buck.

+1 But if you're talking pistol, I say....9mm! I kid, I kid - for reasons that others have stated, I'd take .45. Personally I have a 9mm but that is more from financial factors than anything else, so much cheaper to shoot with and thus I get more practice time in. Just like oldgold said A bullseye with a .22 means a lot more than a near miss with a .500 S&W.
So I go with what I can more easily get my hands on.

usmc1371
February 23, 2009, 06:07 AM
If you have a local range that rents hand guns go there and rent the one they have in 10mm and any one of the ones they have in 45 and shoot them side by side. Then rent a 40 and pick the one that puts the holes in the paper where your aiming in the smallest group. I don't think many bad guys will know the diffrance if you make a good solid hit with any of them. IMHO

Kind of Blued
February 23, 2009, 09:59 AM
"Home defense" implies indoor shooting. Both are going to hurt, but the 10mm would more likely give you permanent hearing damage.

I'd go .45, and get a big (high-capacity) one while you're at it if this will only be a HD pistol.

481
February 23, 2009, 12:30 PM
It all depends on what suits your shooting comfort best both for caliber and platform.

Since I am usually accused of approaching life from a "black or white" perspective, I like and carry 9mm (a Glock 17) and .45 (a HK USP45). Sometimes I want a medium caliber; sometimes I want a large caliber.

If I found myself in the position of having a 10mm as my only means of self defense, I'd hardly waste a minute worrying about it.

Any solid service caliber; 9mm, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP...they'll all get the job done.

Pick what pleases you.

Runningman
February 23, 2009, 01:07 PM
The 10mm is very powerful but does not feed well in all regular pistols Huh??? My Glock 10MM has thousands of jam free rounds 10MM rounds thru it. Granted my Colt Delta 10MM 1911 had many issues but is was a POS from the start. Best thing I did with that Colt was traded it in on a Glock 10mm.

For a new handgun enthusiast I would not recommend a 10 MM. Not even sure I would recommend a 45 Auto for a new shooter. Most beginning handgun shooters do far better with the 22 LR and 9mm over the 45 from my experience.

benderx4
February 23, 2009, 01:30 PM
I'm a 45acp guy myself and not only because the ammo is so much more available and inexpensive than the 10mm.

More importantly, the 45acp gives you ALL KINDS of choices both in autoloaders and revolvers. (And some carbines.) Not true with the 10mm - there are some nice guns, but very few to choose from.

Why limit yourself? Both calibers made nice big holes and the 45 is less likely to go into your neighbors house.

KBintheSLC
February 23, 2009, 04:52 PM
I was wondering which would be better for a home protection weapon, a 10mm or a .45?

The 10mm wins ballistically speaking, any way you look at it. It is an amazing threat stopper (for a hand gun). However, if over-penetration is a concern, the 45 is a great alternative... that fat, slow, heavy bullet hardly penetrates a foot in soft tissue and bone, and the result is that all energy is absorbed by the target.

I went with the 10mm since I spend a lot of time in the wilderness, but for human-only duty, the 45 is more than enough. The nice thing about my G20 is that a simple barrel swap, and I have a 40 S&W to practice with... cheaper and more available.

The 10mm is very powerful but does not feed well in all regular pistols
Nothing feeds well in "all regular pistols"... whatever that means. There are also "regular pistols" that don't feed 9mm and 45 varieties sometimes.
It does feed perfectly in my Glock... which I think could qualify as being a "regular pistol".

gvnwst
February 23, 2009, 06:16 PM
I personally like the 10mm more, i think it might be because of my dislike of 1911s...? Better external ballistics (something important to me, because i can't get a lot of guns, pick the ones i do get carefully) and slightly higher capacity.

Peter M. Eick
February 23, 2009, 08:11 PM
I like the 10mm better because it is powerful enough and accurate enough to work like a weak rifle if you are protecting a spread from coyotes or the like.

For around the city I would go 45 acp and have less worry about penetration or over-penetration that is.

Matrix187
February 23, 2009, 09:15 PM
10mm is far better for being in the woods IMO. Much more powerful, and great penetration for larger predators.

Big Daddy Grim
February 23, 2009, 09:17 PM
although a .500 S&W goes off any where near me I'm hitting the floor they are loud as hell.

slammy
February 23, 2009, 09:57 PM
So why doesn't anybody bring up the .45 gap? High capacity with good knock down power.

Bit less recoil than my kimber even with the 230 grain "cheap round".

longhorngunman
February 23, 2009, 10:47 PM
For what the OP's wanting then it's .45acp easily. More than enough for general purpose, two-legged threat encounters, etc. If you want a semiauto cartridge that is reasonable against some, some four-legged critters then 10mm is the way to go. I own both and love both. Two great cartridges!:D

MachIVshooter
February 24, 2009, 03:39 AM
So why doesn't anybody bring up the .45 gap?

Why would we suggest a nearly obsolete cartridge that offers no real benefit and is only chambered by one manufacturer, when it wasn't even listed by the OP? This is not a Glock love thread.

I personally like the 10mm more, i think it might be because of my dislike of 1911s...?

Huh? The 1911 is by far the most common 10mm platform. There are exactly two production non-1911 auto's in 10mm at present; Glock and Tanfoglio.

Now, to the OP. With a good load chosen, it's going to make very little difference. Both are in the upper echelon for defensive handgun cartridges, and both have more than enough wounding potential with proper shot placement. I own and carry handguns in 10mm and .45, and really feel that it's six of one, a half dozen of the other for defense against two legged threats. When I'm in the woods, I carry 10mm loaded with the heavily constructed 200 grain Hornady XTP. But that round has excessive penetration for targets of human dimensions and density. On that note, I have .45 +P+ loads for use in my S&W 4506/4516 that will nearly equal 10mm, pushing 240 grain Sierra JHC's at 1,115 FPS for 660 ft/lbs; My top 10mm loads launch 180 grain Golden Sabre's at 1400 FPS for 780 ft/lbs.

stevereno1
February 24, 2009, 11:04 AM
10mm is a great round for hunting. It is faster than the .45acp. The .45 acp is considered by many to be the best round for defensive situations ( stopping humans)

slammy
February 26, 2009, 08:25 PM
So is everyone from Colorado a smart !@#? I just asked a simple question, btw most of the GHP carry the 45 gap and ammo, at least in my state, is very easy to find. I also noticed that you mentioned the "nasty" word glock in your post....

Seven For Sure
February 28, 2009, 09:04 PM
slammy - the GAP is not high capacity when compared to the 10mm, 40 and 9mm. In fact, the ACP Glocks have a much higher capacity than the GAP's in Glocks at least. The GAP really is almost dead. If you shoot it www.natchezss.com has 25 rds. of 230 gr. golden saber bonded for $11 and change. The other calibers are twice or more than that. The price has dropped over $2 in the last few fliers I've seen. It's a great deal, I carry golden saber bonded in 40 and 357sig and it costs much more than that per rd.

Mach IV - there are other 10mm auto's in production than the ones you listed.

mordechaianiliewicz
February 28, 2009, 09:08 PM
10mm gives more ammo, and better overall ballistic performance.

There are more guns out there in .45 ACP.

Not much more to say without going into a diatribe.

Hungry Seagull
February 28, 2009, 09:15 PM
Walking in the woods, whistling in the air, enjoying nature in all it's splendor....

.45 on the Hip and a 870 slung to the shoulder with 3 inch mags loaded.

Should be able to handle anything in the forest. Except maybe Green Giant.

4Freedom
February 28, 2009, 09:33 PM
.45 on the Hip and a 870 slung to the shoulder with 3 inch mags loaded

Lucky for you that yo ucan carry guns on your shoulders. The liberal losers in these neck of the woods have made it illegal to open carry guns on most nature trails. You are forced to conceal carry any weapon you choose to protect yourself, which usually means you have to carry a handgun.

Has anyone heard of the Glock 20 Slim frames? I hear they have the same magazine capacity as the regular sized Glock 20s. The one thing that turn me off to the Glock 10mm was that super bulky grip, that makes me thinik I am holding a boxy chunk of plastic. I like the thought of a glock slim frame. I am thinking it would be a good outdoor gun. The only other alternatie to the Glock 10mm I have seen are the 8 round .357 S&W revolvers. However, using speed loaders instead of mags is one disadvantage of the a revolver, especially if yo uare being charged by some angry animal in the woods.

Anyone know if it is safe to shoot +P+ 45 ammo in S&W M&P 45 gun, or in most 45 semi-autos for that matter?

wyocarp
February 28, 2009, 09:34 PM
Since 10mm and .45 ACP are pretty closely matched you'll find that there aren't a lot of arguments making one "better" than the other for self defense.

What? In what regard are they closely matched? That they both have barrels, triggers, and grips?

Hungry Seagull
February 28, 2009, 09:35 PM
I dont know about the open carry laws yet in my state. But I can field strip the said weapon to gun parts and store it in ruck sack.

wyocarp
February 28, 2009, 09:39 PM
A bullseye with a .22 means a lot more than a near miss with a .500 S&W.

Oh, I don't know. The muzzle blast from the .500 will reach out as far as many self-defense shootings. I'd like to know how many people could stand their ground after a near miss from a .500 within twenty feet.

wyocarp
February 28, 2009, 09:41 PM
.45 on the Hip and a 870 slung to the shoulder with 3 inch mags loaded.

Should be able to handle anything in the forest.

Only, only, only, because you are in Arkansas.

Hungry Seagull
February 28, 2009, 09:45 PM
Wyocarp, Maybe so. But ye with long rifles way up yonder without forests can see me coming a few miles out.

Arkansas isnt the only state I think that is pretty gun friendly.

wyocarp
February 28, 2009, 09:47 PM
although a .500 S&W goes off any where near me I'm hitting the floor they are loud as hell.

While that is true, I've gone through ten .500 rounds when I surprised four mountains lions on a trail without hearing protection and the adrenaline essentially worked as ear plugs until the last round or two.

wyocarp
February 28, 2009, 09:55 PM
But ye with long rifles way up yonder without forests can see me coming a few miles out.

Unless antelope hunting, I am constantly wishing I could see more open ground and it is rarely several miles. The problem isn't when in the open tundra, although I have encountered mountain lions in the wide open seemingly vastness antelope areas, the problem areas are when hunting in areas that are more dense.

There are areas in Wyoming that it isn't a good idea to go back after meat that you aren't able to get out on the first trip because within an hour or two there are going to be a grizzly(s) on it.

Hungry Seagull
February 28, 2009, 09:58 PM
Mm. Didnt think of that about the Grizzlys.

I used to take cover whenever I hear a rifle in a forest while growing up. My small patch was enough to hide a deer once in a while.

But the true futility of taking cover from rifles is the speed of bullet. it gets to you before you hear it. St. Peter will be greeting me at the gates.

ljnowell
March 1, 2009, 04:46 AM
Why would we suggest a nearly obsolete cartridge that offers no real benefit and is only chambered by one manufacturer, when it wasn't even listed by the OP? This is not a Glock love thread.



I dont like the gap cartridge but it has nothing to do with glock love, there are a couple other manufacturers who chamber in 45gap.

MachIVshooter
March 1, 2009, 06:01 AM
Mach IV - there are other 10mm auto's in production than the ones you listed.

And those would be what?

All of the 10mm's currently available as new guns are some type of 1911, a variant of the Tanfoglio Witness (compact, FS, P-carry, Match, Stock, Hunter, Limited) or the G20/29.

The S&W 10XX series, Star Megastar, LAR Grizzly, Colt double eagle, etc. are out of production.

Of course there is the S&W 610, but we have both stated auto pistol.

I'm all ears if you know of another platform that I can add to my collection, though.

buttrap
March 1, 2009, 06:49 AM
10mm is for bear defence and elk hunting vs .45 is for 4 legged defence.

roscoe
March 1, 2009, 07:21 AM
The 10mm is available in some great hardcast loads from DoubleTap and Buffalo Bore, which are legitimate anti-(black) bear loads. That gives it more versatility than the .45, which is primarily an antipersonnel round (and a very effective one, by all accounts).

rogertc1
March 1, 2009, 07:48 AM
I'd think 10mm ammo would be even harder to find than .45ACP. Never seen any 10MM at Walmart. Any bulk deals on 10MM out there?

.357 magnum
March 1, 2009, 12:08 PM
.45acp All the way:) The recoil is not as bad as 10mm loads. Even more importantly .45 Ammo is a Quantum Leap easier to find for Practice and Defense. Statistically the .45acp is a little better stopper, but there is not a big enough difference with modern Ammo to be concerned with it.

The Best to You and Yours!

Frank

PS.-Great Loads for .45---Winchester LE-230gr Bonded-Very Accurate-Federal 230gr Tactical HST and Speer Gold Dot 230gr Duty Ammo-All Great Man Stoppers I like the Winchester Bonded the Best-Feeds Flawlessly!

sqlbullet
March 2, 2009, 11:18 AM
rogertc1,

Both Georgia Arms (http://georgia-arms.com/bulkquantityammunition-cannedheat-1.aspx) and BVAC (http://www.bvac-ammo.com/page7.html) offer 10mm in 1000 round pricing. Right now BVAC has by far the best price at 335.50/1000 for 180 grn FMJ 10mm load. 45ACP is about $55 less per thousand.

Seven For Sure
March 2, 2009, 12:00 PM
MachIV - Sorry I don't know how to quote but heres a few in production you did'nt mention.

STI has a 10mm in production and Dan Wesson/CZ has four in production (slight variations but four nonetheless). Fusion has kits available also though I'll admit that is not an option for most shooters. 10mm is'nt a caliber for most shooters not because of the recoil but because of the lack of factory ammo and the cost of what is out there. I'm sure you'll agree it's mostly a reloaders or wealthy person's caliber at least for now. Over $700 for a case of DT hurts after a while and BB cost's twice that.

Good to see so many 10mm guys around these days. I've got a few auto's and a 610. Taken a few hogs with my 610, lot's of fun.

Seven For Sure
March 2, 2009, 12:05 PM
I see you said non 1911 platforms, my appologies. I'd love to see an all steel double stack. No safeties, just like a Glock but all steel. My Witness was sadly the biggest POS I've ever owned.

30mag
March 3, 2009, 12:01 AM
I'm inclined to believe there is a reason that every time someone posts something about a 10mm, someone else replies, "lol handcannon".
If you think you can handle a 10, I say go for it. I think the 10mm is a more powerful round. But, that's just picking a caliber.
Like they said, the fit of a gun, and whether you can hit something with it is far more important. Both are good calibers, and many people use less powerful rounds for SD and HD. Either would be quite sufficient.

moooose102
March 3, 2009, 09:52 AM
you will probably end up with both anyways, so it really does not matter! LOL! i bought a 45. mostly because it is easier to shoot, less expensive to shoot, and plenty powerful for home defense. like the others have said the 10mm ammo is going to be a lot less common. EVERYBODY that sells handgun ammo, will have some kind of 45acp. BUT, if you do any hunting, and you think there is ANY possibility that someday, you might want to hunt with a handgun. the 10mm is the way to go. otherwise, you will be looking for another firearm to take into the woods with you.

elkhuntingfool
March 3, 2009, 06:38 PM
Coin toss. Shot both. Have a 45acp

Casefull
March 3, 2009, 07:15 PM
I shoot both a lot. In fact I just picked up an fnp 45, 14 rounds and unlike my glock a user friendly grip and a hammer too. I recently discovered 45 super and the difference out to 150 yards between the two is minimal. They both will put 180g out at over 1300fps.

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