Brand-new french-produced missiles found in Iraq. Bush wrong again...


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Drjones
October 3, 2003, 06:56 PM
*Drjones patiently waits for this news to be swept under the rug along with all the other evidence we've found so far.* (Man, that rug must be getting LUMPY!)


Reuters
UPDATE - Polish troops find new French missiles in Iraq


Friday October 3, 3:26 pm ET
By Pawel Kozlowski


(Adds details, French reaction)
WARSAW, Oct 3 (Reuters) - Polish troops in Iraq have found four French-built advanced anti-aircraft missiles which were built this year, a Polish Defence Ministry spokesman told Reuters on Friday.

France strongly denied having sold any such missiles to Iraq for nearly two decades, and said it was impossible that its newest missiles should turn up in Iraq. :rolleyes: :D

"Polish troops discovered an ammunition depot on September 29 near the region of Hilla and there were four French-made Roland-type missiles," Defence Ministry spokesman Eugeniusz Mleczak said.

"It is not the first time Polish troops found ammunition in Iraq but to our surprise these missiles were produced in 2003."

The Roland anti-aircraft system is a short-range air defence missile in service with at least 10 countries, including France and Germany.

They are fired from a mobile launcher vehicle and defence experts say the missiles are highly effective against aircraft attacking at low and medium altitude.

Under a strict trade embargo imposed by the United Nations, Iraq was barred from importing arms after its invasion of Kuwait in 1990.

Among others, Russia, Britain and France all sold arms to Iraq in the 1970s and 1980s. In Iraq's arsenal were Soviet-built Scud missiles, British Chieftain tanks and French Mirage fighters.

But Iraq managed to circumvent the arms trade ban in the 1990s through shadowy deals with various arms traders and kept its military equipment functioning.

"NO MILITARY EXPORTS"

"Since July 1990, France has not authorised a single shipment of military equipment to Iraq," a French Foreign Ministry spokeswoman told Reuters. Similar accusations were made in the U.S. media in April, she said.

In 1980-81, 13 Roland-1 missile systems were shipped to Iraq and from 1983 to 1986, 100 Roland-2 missile systems. The Roland-3 has never been exported to Iraq, she said.

"It is not credible to say that the Roland missiles found a few days ago were produced in 2003 and delivered just before the Anglo-American intervention," the spokeswoman said.

"Let's be absolutely clear about this: no military exports to Iraq were licensed after July 1990."

It was unlikely that the missiles could be used 17-18 years after their delivery, she added.

Mleczak said Polish troops were notified about the missiles by a local Iraqi, who received a reward for the information.

"The ammunition depot was neutralised," said Mleczak. Polish television pictures showed missiles placed in a shallow trench and a huge explosion when the Poles blew up munitions at the site.

Since early September, Poland, a staunch supporter of the U.S.-led war in Iraq, has led a multinational force in one of four so-called stabilisation zones, in central Iraq.

In the run-up to the outbreak of the 2003 Iraq war, American and British combat pilots struck Iraqi anti-aircraft batteries repeatedly as they patrolled no-fly zones in the north and south of the country.

(Additional reporting by Jon Boyle in Paris)

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Hkmp5sd
October 3, 2003, 07:00 PM
"Let's be absolutely clear about this: no military exports to Iraq were licensed after July 1990."

"That dang UPS driver delivered them to Iraq when I specifically said they were supposed to go to Iran!!" stated the French Foreign Weasle on Friday....

El Tejon
October 3, 2003, 07:03 PM
How do you say "egg on the face" in French?

SodaPop
October 3, 2003, 07:33 PM
If we do find WMD's and the French and Germans get tied into it, what would how would our administration deal with it?

Ironbarr
October 3, 2003, 07:34 PM
Oooops!

keederdag
October 3, 2003, 07:38 PM
Then the French are aiding and supporting terorist organizations. That means we should invade right?


French, the other white meat!:D

Drjones
October 3, 2003, 07:40 PM
That means we should invade right?

Is it really an "invasion" if the other side surrenders immediately?

:confused:







:D :D :D

keederdag
October 3, 2003, 07:45 PM
That's funny; You know Remember TV nation, that peice of Sh%$ Michael Moore produced in the early 90's? They had a nationwide poll that asked should we #1 invade a small country to build up Klintons approval ratings #2 Save the $ and give it to Education, or #3 Invade France. Guess what won? I really think the majority of Americans might be sympathetic to a "regeim change" in France:D

Unisaw
October 3, 2003, 07:51 PM
I'll take a stab at it: le oeuf sur la visage.

It's only been 20+ years since I took French. Is this even close?

keederdag
October 3, 2003, 07:58 PM
Well if you mean#3) invade france......Ding ding ding YOUR THE WINNER!!!!:D :D :D :D :D

Hkmp5sd
October 3, 2003, 08:01 PM
Not to turn this into a French bashing thread, but WHY would anyone want to accept France's surrender? We'd be stuck with them. Couldn't pawn them off on anyone.:) Then again, we could send Bill and Hillary over to help them straighten out their government.

keederdag
October 3, 2003, 08:21 PM
I think that since theyre so tight with Germany these day's, they should be invaded and then forced into becomeing one country. Ya know, since they get along so well........:D

Old Fuff
October 3, 2003, 08:30 PM
I believe some of these were found before. The Iraqis used a similar missile too shoot down one of our A-10's over Baghdad. Recovered pieces showed it was made in or around the year 2000. More were found hidden at the airport.

As they say, If the French are you're friends you don't need ......

Mark Tyson
October 3, 2003, 09:58 PM
Sacre bleu! More duplicity and backstabbing from our neighbors across the pond. Those Gaulish tribes cannot be trusted to support us, Emperor . . .

Quartus
October 3, 2003, 10:04 PM
Jones, I suspect you won't need to do much "waiting patiently" for this to get the sweep job!


BTW, what do you mean "surrender immediately"? Before or after our ships leave the dock?



:D

Zedicus
October 3, 2003, 10:28 PM
El Tejon: How do you say "egg on the face" in French?
"oeuf sur le visage":D

Brian Dale
October 3, 2003, 10:43 PM
or, "...plus c'est la meme chose."

Standing Wolf
October 3, 2003, 10:48 PM
I'm still not buying anything French.

TheeBadOne
October 3, 2003, 11:09 PM
Can you please provide a link to that article.

Thanks

Drjones
October 4, 2003, 04:36 PM
Quartus:

I'd expect a surrender as soon as the words leave Bush's mouth. Our men wouldn't even have time to pack their bags! :D :D :D


Thee: Sorry! I thought I posted the link. Here you go: http://biz.yahoo.com/rm/031003/iraq_poland_missiles_2.html

TheeBadOne
October 4, 2003, 05:09 PM
Thank you. :)

keederdag
October 4, 2003, 05:14 PM
Personally, I'd like to see them fight, FOR ONCE!:D

pittspilot
October 4, 2003, 07:07 PM
While I dislike anything French, except the mustard, I will point out that the French are pointing out, and the Polish are agreeing that the Poles are wrong (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=4&u=/ap/20031004/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_french_missiles)

It's apparently due to the fact that the French haven't built the
Roland 3 missile for awhile.

Any knowledgeable THR's say different?

C.R.Sam
October 4, 2003, 10:04 PM
The French Foreign Ministry emphasized on Saturday that France has not authorized the sale of weapons, or even spare parts, to Iraq since July 1990, when the United Nations (news - web sites) imposed sanctions on weapons sales following Saddam's invasion of Kuwait. From Pitts Pilot's link.

I read that as a smokescreen.
Often; prohibited goods are shipped to embargoed countries via third party countries that are not party to the embargo.

Sometimes with and at other times without the knowledge of the government of the originating country.

Nuther question;
How is the date of manufacture of these weapons determined.?
Possibly upon final assembly at a date and time later than original manufacture ?

Maby older componants assembled years later and the date is related to the fueling. Or some other age sensitive componant.

Sam

Fed168
October 4, 2003, 10:27 PM
If we invade France, does that mean Jerry Lewis will be president?

4v50 Gary
October 4, 2003, 10:29 PM
That's why the French didn't want the US to go in. We'd learn that they were selling missiles. Gotta love those French. Couldn't handle a war but they could take on the Rainbow Warrior in a real James Bond type operation. Or was that Inspector Closeau they sent?

Hkmp5sd
October 4, 2003, 11:06 PM
How is the date of manufacture of these weapons determined.?

Many electronic components have the date they were manufactured printed on them. It is also possible to date electronics by the version or model number on them. As the components are upgraded, they get a different number. The batteries and possibly the fuel source in the missile will also be dated since these have a shelf life.

C.R.Sam
October 5, 2003, 02:17 AM
Hkmp5sd
My point exactly.
A ten year old missle would likely have some very recent componants.
A lot of things have parts with short storage life.
Hence, dated componants.

Sam

TheeBadOne
October 5, 2003, 02:32 AM
Just because a missle hasn't been made in a few years doesn't mean squat. There's a ton of different types of munitions sitting locked up in bases that is "obsolete", but still very attractive to less than world power countries. Perhaps instead of letting the stuff just sit and rot the idea of turning a profit was too good to miss?

Drjones
October 5, 2003, 02:34 AM
...because of all people, the FRENCH are going to come right out and admit to this.... :rolleyes:

C'mon guys...you give them FAR too much credit... :banghead:

Dilettante
October 5, 2003, 04:49 AM
I don't know what really happened, but Poland has retracted this claim.

Someday we'll find out exactly what the connection was.

If we ever really want to punish France, we just remove our troops from Germany...;)

Gary H
October 5, 2003, 12:04 PM
I believe the French president and the Polish retraction. Any debt incurred by the non-purchase of such arms should be forgiven by France. How can they collect for arms that they didn't really supply. I believe that the Germans should take a similar stance. The troop have been leaving Germany ever since the Iraq buildup and many of them will not return. We have also removed our forces from Saudi Arabia.

Mike Irwin
October 5, 2003, 03:20 PM
Hey, wait a minute!

Isn't this just another virulent case of French bashing?

Lord knows that saying ANYTHING negative about the French seems to be French bashing...

After all, they're just a bunch of fun loving people who just want to make love, drink wine, and hang out on the beach on the Riveria...

They're not concerned with international affairs at all...

It must be those pesky, horrible, Americans who do nothing but bash the French all day...

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