its tax season--you gun purchase deductable?


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rshackleford
February 23, 2009, 12:05 AM
are there any gun purchases which are eligible deductions?

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larry_minn
February 23, 2009, 12:25 AM
Sure. It CAN be. IF you are a LEO/Security and it is part of the necessary equipment (like uniform/boots/gloves) depending on job/state/etc.

Kindrox
February 23, 2009, 01:25 AM
Own a company with cash flow. Write off the cost of CHL permits, handguns, ammo and range fees.

Got audited by IRS last year and he asked about the claimed deductions but did not have a problem with it. Of course our claimed expenses were not extreem either.

Just imagine yourself face to face with an IRS agent, and explain your deduction. If you can't do it with the IRS agent not present, you won't have a prayer if one is.

jakemccoy
February 23, 2009, 03:20 AM
I think it's doable in certain instances, for example, if you operate a business where those guns are for the business security or if you make the guns the property of the business.

rshackleford
February 23, 2009, 09:04 AM
how about varmit control as a farmer or rancher?

3pairs12
February 23, 2009, 09:06 AM
Unfortunatly I do not fall in to the catergory of people that can write off gun purchases.

Hungry Seagull
February 23, 2009, 09:12 AM
What a wonderful dream for me.

Im just a taxpayer and get no special treatment.

However Im happy to do my part spending to stimulate the American Firearms Industry and keep them going in time of trouble.

CoRoMo
February 23, 2009, 09:20 AM
What about membership dues to NRA, SAF, etc?
Aren't those tax deductible? They are nonprofits after all.

JWF III
February 23, 2009, 09:29 AM
The NRA (to the best of mt knowledge) is NOT tax deductible. It doesn't make since. I just figure that is one more way the government is trying to quiet them down.

Wyman

rshackleford
February 23, 2009, 09:55 AM
The NRA (to the best of mt knowledge) is NOT tax deductible. It doesn't make since. I just figure that is one more way the government is trying to quiet them down.

the argument there is if they are not for profit. if they have the governmental documentation as non-profit then they would be tax deductible.

rscalzo
February 23, 2009, 10:04 AM
some of these thories are a bit dangerious. Better to get the answer from an accountant.

I deducted them when I was still working with the PD but it was deducted over a multi yera period. It was much of a deduction and made very little difference to the bottom line. an audit would wipe out any savings.

Kindrox
February 23, 2009, 10:13 AM
rscalzo,

Which theory expressed is a bit dangerious? I was audited, the gun expenses were reviewed by an IRS agent, and he was fine with them.

Our "justification" is we own a small retail store and the CHL fees, two handguns, ammunition and range fees were for security.

He questioned the expense like all the others (and was not the reason for the audit) but took no issue with it.

I don't think the IRS is going to hassle any business that handles money for expensing reasonable gun and ammo purchases. Now if I was trying to expense 25 guns (we aren't a gun related business) and $100,000 ammo bill, I presume the agent's response would have been different. So like anything else, just use some common sense if you think you can claim guns and ammo as a reasonable and necissary business expense.

Jorg Nysgerrig
February 23, 2009, 10:50 AM
The NRA (to the best of mt knowledge) is NOT tax deductible. It doesn't make since. I just figure that is one more way the government is trying to quiet them down.
I'm not sure if you are serious since it is fairly common knowledge that donations to lobbying groups are not tax deductible. But, I'll answer anyone in the event someone is confused. It's not a government plot. It's because the NRA is registered as a 501(c)(4) instead of 501(c)(3) so they can participate in lobbying and political campaigns. 501(c)(3) groups, the more well-known tax deductible flavor of non-profit, have very strict rules about how politically active they can be while retaining their status.

If you want to give money to the NRA and have it be tax deductible, you can give to the NRA Foundation which is a 501(c)(3) group. Be aware that money given to them only goes toward grants for eduction, training, conservations, etc, and not toward any sort of political action.

Lightninstrike
February 23, 2009, 10:53 AM
You're kidding, right? It's not a government plot. It's because the NRA is registered as a 501(c)(4) instead of 501(c)(3) so they can participate in lobbying and political campaigns. 501(c)(3) groups, the more well-known tax deductible flavor of non-profit, have very strict rules about how politically active they can be while retaining their status.

Exactly. I mean let's face it, we wouldn't want the Brady Bunch allowed as a tax deduction either. Er, they aren't are they?

Jorg Nysgerrig
February 23, 2009, 10:58 AM
Lightninstrike, they have two separate organizations. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence is 501(c)(4) group focused on lobbying and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence is a 501(c)(3) focused on education.

Duke of Doubt
February 23, 2009, 11:22 AM
Guns CAN be deductible under certain circumstances. Ordinarily a gun would be depreciated over a period of years as a capital asset, not expensed like a ream of paper. However, the gun may qualify as Section 179 property, subject to the limitations on total Section 179 expenses, and be written off in one tax period. Keep in mind that you must recapture all depreciated expense/Section 179 expense as income if you later sell the gun.

The deduction, like any other Section 162 expense or depreciation expense, is limited to what is "ordinary and necessary" for your business. If, for example, you operate a for-profit side business in the security consultation and firearms instruction area, you may be able to deduct guns, ammunition and other expenses. But if you deduct so much that the net income falls to negligible amounts, your "business" may get recharacterized as a "hobby" and the expenses disallowed. Likewise, buying a Smith Model 10 and a Remington 700 to instruct novices might be considered "ordinary" while a matched pair of Colt Pythons and an Anschutz with a grand worth of optics might not.

I personally do NOT deduct firearms-related expenses for tax purposes, as I want to retain the right to move my firearms, ammunition and components into and out of my business operations without having to account for them, and I do not want to have to differentiate as among my firearms and other activities for tax purposes. If it's business income, it gets picked up and reported under the business activity code for that particular business which represents the vast majority of my business activity and business income. The details of how some of my clients may pay me to do stuff related to guns aren't material, so long as any income from that gets picked up and reported.

Kindrox
February 23, 2009, 02:48 PM
you must recapture all depreciated expense/Section 179 expense as income if you later sell the gun

That is true, but you can sell the gun to yourself for the depreciated amount. Ammo goes Bang and is gone.

Hk91-762mm
February 23, 2009, 04:05 PM
The NRA (to the best of mt knowledge) is NOT tax deductible. It doesn't make since. I just figure that is one more way the government is trying to quiet them down.


NRA =NO
ILA==YES

gvnwst
February 23, 2009, 05:07 PM
I wish i had a buisness in which i could do this, but not yet. YET. Maybe someday...:rolleyes::D

jakemccoy
February 23, 2009, 05:34 PM
SAF is tax deductible.

bonza
February 23, 2009, 05:36 PM
Not the guns specifically, but I am a member of a national shooting team (USIMLT) & I can claim any expenses incurred ( travel, accomodation, food, shooting nominations, etc.) while training or competing.
Also, when I worked in the firearms industry some years ago, I could claim the subscription costs to my shooting magazines, as they were considered 'trade journals'.

Cannonball888
February 23, 2009, 06:03 PM
I'm working on getting them dependent status.

Birdhunter1
February 23, 2009, 06:10 PM
I am a quail hunting guide at an upland hunting preserve and I breed Brittany's and sell the pups. So I am able to claim my shotgun, shells, my rifle (varmint control of our released birds) and ammo for that.
I justify my shotgun shells by this, the more birds I shoot, the better my dogs are, the more I can sell them for.

Lightninstrike
February 23, 2009, 06:28 PM
Thanks for clarification Jorg.

WardenWolf
February 23, 2009, 06:40 PM
I am not a lawyer, but these are examples of the types of things that could be considered valid business expenses in the eyes of the IRS:

1. You purchase a firearm for protection at your place of business. The firearm is stored at the place of business during business hours, and purchased either with company funds or your own. This is thus a business expense, spent on security.

2. You work in a security or law enforcement position and the purchase was made specifically with the intent of being your carry gun.

3. Your work involves going into a bad area of town. The company sends out a notice advising or permitting people to carry a firearm as a means of protection. This notice is now justification for classifying the purchase of a carried firearm as a business expense.

Devilfrog
February 23, 2009, 10:13 PM
Since getting laid off from my degree job, I got a job doing armed security. So this year I will be writing off my pistol (purchased for the job), holster and other gear, and of course the training ammo I will be using to keep up my skills. Also will throw in the training courses I'll be taking this year and costs of licenses and other fees. It's probably the only bright side of the situation because with the pay cut I'll need every write off I can get! :cuss:

Big Boomer
February 23, 2009, 11:45 PM
My tax guy, allowed my carry firearms to be deducted as "security equipment" as I not only home office but travel extensively for work. It is not required or even recommended for work but neither is the fire extinguisher in the trunk or the leatherman that I use everyday.

The point is these are "non-reimbursable" business expenses just as you can write of meals and entertainment as well you get a 50% deduction for these.

You have to take the itemized so you best have well over $5000 in deductions or if married like $7500 whatever the personal allowance is.

I got back a measly $9400 and I don't have any kids :)

Unfortunately NONE of this is going towards any gun purchase. The majority is going in the bank till the times look a little brighter. The other is earmarked for some new crowns, medical bills, and to pay off the A/C that was damaged on the car.

I have yet to buy a new gun this year. The only one I am looking for is that new Colt Delta Elite but I have not heard anything about it in a year so I assume it's most likely not to happen.

I guess I'll just have to wait...

louie19
February 24, 2009, 01:49 AM
This never occurred to me. I'd like it to be deductible, but I'm not sure. I did find this old thread home defense gun tax deduction (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-123676.html) and an old article Are Security Costs Deductible? (http://faculty.lebow.drexel.edu/CuratolaA/management%20accounting%20199601.pdf)

ridata
February 24, 2009, 04:31 PM
I'm working on getting them dependent status.

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww260/ridatab/irs.jpg

Zoogster
February 24, 2009, 06:29 PM
I personally do NOT deduct firearms-related expenses for tax purposes, as I want to retain the right to move my firearms, ammunition and components into and out of my business operations without having to account for them, and I do not want to have to differentiate as among my firearms and other activities for tax purposes. If it's business income, it gets picked up and reported under the business activity code for that particular business which represents the vast majority of my business activity and business income.

Excellent point.
Property you write off as a tax deduction must be accounted for if the government wants to look into them later.
By writing any firearms off even under legitimate circumstances be aware you are agreeing to thier future inspection.

Additionaly if you write property off as a business expense that property is tied to the business. It becomes a business asset.
If you ever lose that business or file for some forms of bankruptcy be aware you may need to liquidate business property, including those firearms. Essentialy they are no longer purely your firearms and are legaly tied to the business. You must account for business assets in a long list of legal proceedings that a business could be involved in.

So you are both signing up with the federal government to present your firearms on request and turning them into a business asset no longer purely your property to write them off. Is it really worth that?

Guns and more
February 24, 2009, 09:32 PM
Just remember, if you deduct your guns, when you sell them, you have to recapture the deduction.

rshackleford
February 24, 2009, 09:49 PM
Just remember, if you deduct your guns, when you sell them, you have to recapture the deduction.

if you claim the income (of course it would be illegal to not claim income even if it happened to be in the form of unrecorded cash).

all the better reason never to sell any guns.

also most of us worry about the taxes we need to pay today and not the ones we need to pay tomorrow.

pith43
February 24, 2009, 09:57 PM
how about varmit control as a farmer or rancher?

I can deduct a certain amount every year for coyote control, including the cost of having the USDA fly my land every year. They usually shoot between 25 and 30 coyotes from a plane every spring, right before calving season (talk about a cool job :D ).

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