[1moa@500]

i have a well used kimber stainless fullsize 1911. After taking up idpa this last year I have put several thousand rounds through this pistol. I was cleaning the gun tonight when i noticed the foot of the barrel had wear marks on it and so did the slide stop. What causes this? Is this a big deal? And what do I need to do to fix this issue? I have done little to this pistol except change recoil springs and a barrel bushing in the last twelve years of owning it. It has somewhere in the neighborhood of 25k rounds down the pipe and if I need to replace parts or have work done to it I would not be heartbroken. Thanks in advance JW

[Old Fuff]

I presume that when you say "foot of the barrel," you mean the bottom lug to which the link is attached. If not disregard this post.

During the early 1960’s the engineers at Springfield Armory (the government arsenal, not the present company) developed a system of locking the barrel into battery by having the lower lug act as a cam surface while pressing on the slide stop pin. This firmly locked the barrel into battery, and the intention within the Army was to use it exclusively on bullseye target pistols.

However today buyers want tight pistols. From a weapon’s point of view tightness is not a virtue, as it can prevent a pistol from going into battery if it gets too fouled. But now the pistol is much more likely to be used as a big-boy toy then a serious defensive tool.

Anyway the marks that you see are because of the lug pressing against the slide stop pin, and are of no consequence unless the pistol’s accuracy drops off to a serious degree. They simply means that you’ve gotten the gun broken in.

[RogersPrecision]

Old Fuff,
Many Kimbers have a problem with the front corner of the lower lug being insufficiently relieved. That front corner will bump the slide stop axle HARD with every cycle. This will create a dent and material will be peened and extruded both internally and externally in this area. The internal peen may inhibit free motion of the link. The external peen may inhibit motion of the barrel.
Also, this hard bump occurs at a relatively important phase of the feeding cycle.
The fix is simple, relieve this area so as to provide a smooth transition of pin to the lower lugs.
Kimber will tell you to shoot it more and stop limp wristing the gun. ;)

[Old Fuff]

Kimber will tell you to shoot it more and stop limp wristing the gun.

Their reputation is as bad and your's is good. ;)

The fix is simple, relieve this area so as to provide a smooth transition of pin to the lower lugs.

I should have added to my post that correctly fitting a USGI type match barrel with an oversized bottom lug requires the services of a skilled and experiences pistolsmith, and this seldom happens with semi-production guns. That's one reason the buyer gets a pistol with the job unfinished, and instructions that they must "break it in," with the ammunition costs coming out of the gun owner's pocket. I call this "batter fitting," because you are supposed to batter the parts together to get a working fit. This sort of thing comes from the "get a bigger hammer" school of gunsmithing. :barf:

Fortunately the related problems are usually the result of too much metal being left on the lug, which makes it possible to salvage the barrel, but you still need someone to fix it that knows what he's doing.

Perhaps JW should send a personal message to Mr. Rogers for some further enlightenment and a quote.

[RogersPrecision]

Let's look at the dynamics of your suggestion Old Fuff.
First off, I'd be dealing with an already disgruntled individual.
Secondly, round trip shipping via UPS or FedEx would likely run $140.
I'd receive the pistol, unbox it, usually spend some time looking for a return address and then enter it into my A&D book.
Based on extensive experience with other Kimbers
upon initial inspection I'd probably find that the extractor had been overbeveled, necessitating replacement. I'd probably also find an undersized firing pin stop that allows extractor clocking. Further inspection may find a frame feed ramp of minimal depth and a barrel chamber with insufficient leade.
Now I need to get on the phone, if the customer has supplied the requested contact info, and inform this gentleman than I can not guarantee function unless I address all the issues.
Of course at this point the customer is pre-disposed to thinking I'm taking unfair advantage of his bad luck. But he will reluctantly agree to the work since he has invested a goodly sum in shipping alone.
So at this point I effect the repairs and am obligated to test fire the gun. A trip to the range, range fees and ammo costs.
Almost done, now I need to receive payment, box up the pistol, fill out a shipping form, log it out of my books and make a trip to the FedEx office.
Worst case scenario, though not uncommon, is the customer will receive the gun and try it out using $6 gunshow magazines and his buddies reloads.
Here comes the internet flogging, the telephone call and all of sudden I'm the bad guy!
No thanks, Old Fuff.
I don't do that kind of work anymore.

:(

[Old Fuff]

Well I respect your feelings, and understand where you're coming from.

I suggested he needed some enlightenment, and he just go it. ;)

[1moa@500]

thanks for the replies guys! I understand that relieving the bottom lug is a skilled operation that most people would not undertake. If there is no risk of shearing off the bottom lug or breaking the link then I am ok with letting it go. Can someone with some skill with a file recountour the bottom lug without causing a drop in accuracy? I also have some dents on my wilson slidestop. Is this problamatic or is it something to let go of? As to being just broken in I hope at its current round count that I have several years left I kind of like this one.

[NSKSales]

JW

Quite frankly, your very best option is to have the gun rebarreled. In the scheme of things, it is a very cheap option. While this is done, you can have the trigger looked at for wear and tear, too. I can assure you, that after 20K+ rounds of HB through this barrel, it should be looked at and it's accuracy has probably dropped off. Full load 230 HB (appx 850 FPS +/- 25 FPS) can wear a 1911 down and at 20K+ the wear and tear is measurable. I wold recommend that you find a Bullseye 1911 Gunsmith to make the repairs. NSK

[1911Tuner]

I understand that relieving the bottom lug is a skilled operation that most people would not undertake.

If the problem is indeed what it appears to be, it's a simple fix that takes all of 10 minutes. 5 if you don't have to remove the link in order to gain access to the peened area.

Just take a flat needle file, and lay it across the lug at 90 degrees to the sides. Following the original contour of the forward radius...the front corner...draw file it until you can insert the slidestop pin through the link and swing it past the corner and into the battery position without binding against the lug.

Don't remove any material from the area of the foot that supports the pin when the link is vertical. Only from the radius, and no more than is necessary to let the pin move freely. Use a Sharpie (tm) marker on the lug so you can tell when there's no contact at the corner.

[krs]

That with a needle file will work or Tuner wouldn't have suggested it, but if there's any question of your ability to keep your file straight as you stroke with it , no wobbly movement at all lest you inadvertently enlarge one or the other of the frame holes through which the slidestop is inserted.

If you DO have qualms about such filing technique there's a neat little tool available form Brownells that involves a sized cutter (two sizes available) and a mounting fixture with a crank handle that can do the above task with the assurance of a higher level of precision, saving the frame. You can buy such gizmo, or only needed parts of gizmo here: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=18787&title=1911%20AUTO%20LUG%20FITTING%20KIT

[RogersPrecision]

The pin and link will need to be removed. And the pin is VERY tight on most Kimbers.
KRS.........?????
No one discussed filing through the slide stop pin hole with the pistol assembled. Reminds me of that old game 'Operation'. :)

[krs]

Wha........you're right! He didn't say to file through the frame holes.......my bad indeed.

However, he didn't exactly say NOT to do that and I thought that the phrasing "insert the slidestop pin through the link and swing it past the corner and into the battery position without binding against the lug" might suggest doing so to someone, especially that about battery position.

I just think that it's easy to overlook all of the various interpretations of our postings which COULD be made by someone with little or no experience in working these guns, and I'm a firm subscriber to Murphy's first which goes "If a bad thing CAN happen it WILL happen" - sooner or later, to someone.