[Zedicus]

http://www.swordforumbugei.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000262.html

With this one I will just post the link and comment later....

[Keith]

Now if we could only get rid of the other 10,000 weasels in the state department!

Keith

[agricola]

rarely has the nail been hit so squarely on the head.

here is an interview with Michael Moore in todays Guardian - I know many of you are against him and his views generally, and in some cases with good reason, but he did say this:

"Since 9/11, the Bush administration has used that tragic event as a justification to rip up our constitution and our civil liberties. And I honestly believe that one or two 9/11s, and martial law will be declared in our country and we're inching towards a police state." He admits "it's not happening tomorrow", but some well-placed suicide bombs or terrorist attacks, he believes, could change everything. "At that point, you will find millions of Americans clamouring for martial law. I'm not talking about a takeover by Bush and his people. They won't have to fire a shot. The American people will be so freaked out they will demand that the White House take action, round up anyone and everyone. That's what I fear. It won't happen with a bang but with the whimpering sound of a frightened nation."

to me this sounds more than plausible given what happened post 9/11. Any comments?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/michaelmoore/story/0,13947,1055591,00.html

[Keith]

Since 9/11, the Bush administration has used that tragic event as a justification to rip up our constitution and our civil liberties.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I can not believe you, of all people, would have the temerity to comment on civil liberties in the US!
The most repressive states in the union don't have 1/10th the limitations on liberty that every single subject in your country labors under! A American six year old child has more freedoms than a British adult.

Keith

[Marko Kloos]

You know, I never thought I'd ever say this, but for once I have to agree with Michael Moore, on this particular aspect. One or two bus bombs or another 9/11-type attack, and the current rush to trade liberty for the promise of security will seem like nothing in comparison. We will turn into Nazi Germany with Starbucks, because most of the population will be scared enough to demand the abolishment of our freedoms.

This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector. --Plato

This was true for Hitler and Stalin. It will be true for Bush, or Hillary, or whoever else occupies the White House when we see the next terrorist attack on American soil.

[Marko Kloos]

Keith,

agricola quoted someone else. Even if he didn't, he'd have just as much of a right to his opinions on this board as you do. Let's keep the debate confined to the subject at hand, and extend the courtesy of hearing each other out without attacking the arguer.

[agricola]

keith,

last i looked Moore was a septic, just as you are, and i was quoting him.

Besides, your lack of knowledge has never stopped you speaking about the UK. When is it US kids can buy beer again?

[Keith]

I didn't attack the arguer, I attacked the silly opinion he forwarded, in light of his continued defense of any and all government oppression in his own country.

Keith

[anapex]

"When is it US kids can buy beer again?"

Whenever they can find someone 21 or over willing to pick it up for them :D

[longeyes]

Michael Moore does nothing to inspirit or fortify the American
people when he makes a movie in which Charlton Heston and the NRA
are accused of being responsible for criminal activities in poor ghettos.
He panders and manipulates. Moore postures as a "protector,"
a friend of the average American. He is anything but.

I think we are more likely to devolve into chaos and warlordism than a
suppressive police state if terrorism comes stateside. People will
cocoon and they will pack. I don't think they will clamor for Central
Authority because they already know the Federal government can't and
won't protect them.

[longeyes]

Here's the real problem:

It's becoming obvious that the U.S. State Department is a nation
within a nation and that the culture of "State" seems to reflect
less and less the radical values of the people of this country or
the Founding Fathers. We have a Mandarin class of elite bureaucrats
who seem to be more interested in promoting the interests of foreign
nations here than our interests abroad. This is an issue that
bears careful and deep examination. I for one find many of the policies of
State increasingly baffling.

[Don Gwinn]

What's a septic? Am I one?

Is it just an unfortunate difference between American and the King's English that makes me bristle at being called a "septic?"
:scrutiny:

[Felonious Monk]

skeptic? :scrutiny: :uhoh: :confused:

[Don Gwinn]

Never mind . . . . found it. In "Cockney Rhyming Slang," an American is a "septic," because septic tank rhymes with Yank. Got all that?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A649

A few other items of Cockney Rhyming slang I found illuminating:

Beer: Britney, apple
Pub: Battle
Fight: Barney
The Human Butt: Queen Mum, Aristotle



Fascinating. . . . .

[fallingblock]

Agricola....what does the availability of beer have to do with anything?

Perhaps one could ask when the British teenager (or any subject) may legally buy their first handgun?:D

The widespread availability of alcohol is a classic sop to the oppressed...the younger they are initiated, the less they tend to notice the society declining around them.

Yes, Australia has a lot of drunken teenagers...:scrutiny:

[Dilettante]

I'm still relatively new, only 100 posts or so.
So as opposed to my last 100 posts where I have defended the USA and often beaten up on Europe, I will admit here that some other countries have some advantages.

Drinking beer is a personal freedom, and being able to go to bars and dance halls is also. For young people these are hard to do in the USA. It's as though we want to keep our kids from growing up. In many places you can't go anywhere without a car, so kids are trapped at home until they're 16; then they can't get in normal social areas until they're 21.

I'm 32 now, and I was recently denied entry to a bar because I didn't have a photo ID. (My wallet was stolen a few weeks ago. Now I've got the cards back at least.) I pointed out to the door guy that I was obviously an old man: I don't look 21, and I could remember the 1970s. He wouldn't even look at me in the light. Dick. :fire: