[rteam2]

Saw this on another thread & it got me thinking. Someone mentioned being prepared for any situation by learning the details on a variety of firearms, such as where the safeties are, mag releases, etc. Just in case a situation requires you to use a 'battlefield pickup'. Hadn't heard this term before, but it makes sense. Is anyone specifically doing this - renting/borrowing different handguns in order to be more prepared? What works best for preparing for 'battlefield pickup' ?

[Mp7]

just by statistics... knowing how an AK functions
might come in handy....

[Duke of Doubt]

I don't own a "battlefield pickup," as I prefer German sport sedans.

Familiarizing yourself with a broad variety of firearms is always a good idea, and fun, too. You never know when you may need the knowledge, if only to safely clear a weapon you've found in the woods.

[CWL]

If you ever find yourself in such dire straits that you need to "pick up" another weapon to continue the fight, more than likely you will have access to one dropped a fallen comrade.

[Pulse]

there are not mutch to learn about firearm operation.

there are few diffrent mag types:

Rock'n'Lock (AK style)
Button Drop (AR style)
Top loading/Stripper clips (many bolt actions/Old military rifles)

many firearms in military use have a safety that resembles the one found on a AR, notable expection the AK.
but even if it has a diffrent one, for example inside the trigger guard or on the Bolt, they are marked very clearly most of the time and it should not take more then a few seconds to figure out.

handguns are a bit diffrent, but if you are in a situation where you have to use a firearm droped by someone, you should have brought a Rifle and friends with there Rifles.

[Trebor]

We recently ran a "Battlefield Pick Up" postal match over at Zombie Squad www.zombiehunters.org

The idea was to borrow or rent a handgun you'd never fired before and then shoot the match "cold."

The participants enjoyed it and reported learning new things.

[X-Rap]

I think pure human curiosity of our sport/hobby should drive us to want to understand the different mechanics of various weapons. The skills learned in this quest will serve well if the need to quickly acclimate oneself to an unfamiliar weapon arises. In other words go out and shoot stuff.

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I can think of several reasons (Not all bad, or SHTF) why a person should know how an AR and an AK work. I don't think it's crazy. They are both VERY common.

[SimonZayne]

I don't think I've ever come across a gun that I didn't want to shoot. Heck, I'll even put a mag through a 92 once and a while and that's one of my least favorite firearms.

[Thingster]

My friends and I have done familiarizations like was mentioned by Trebor.

Everyone brought out a few guns of various types, with the requirement being 1 rifle, 1 shotgun, and one semi-auto pistol. Anything above and beyond was just bonus.

It really is interesting to see people try to figure odd firearms out, and when you're done you have a much better knowledge base to draw expereinces from.

[22lr]

It really easy to figure out and if it comes to a pick up just remember that you wont have time to even worry about cleaning so you just need basic familiarity. AK, AR, bolt action, maybe a few pistol other than that, pretty much everything else out there is very similar.

[Trebor]

Here's a few hints for when you run across handguns you aren't familiar with:

For double-action revolvers with a swing out cylinder, the cylinder release is on the left side of the frame, behind the cylinder. (I'm amazed that some people don't know this...)

For S&W revolvers, push the release away from you (towards the muzzle) to unlock the cylinder and push the cylinder out of the frame to the left with your other hand.

For Colt revolvers, pull the cylinder release towards you instead.

For Ruger revolvers, the cylinder release is a button. Push it in, and a little towards the muzzle end, and you'll unlock the cylinder.

For all three types of revolvers, with the cylinder open, point the gun with the muzzle up and then push down on the ejector rod to eject the empty cases or live rounds. Don't try to pluck them out with your fingertips. (Once again, some people don't know this).

For a Dan Wesson revolver, ask someone else, as I'm not sure where the cylinder is on those or how it operates. Never actually seen one in person.

For semi-autos with a manual safety or safety/decocker. If the safety is on the slide, like the Walther PPK, P-38, S&W autos, or the Berretta 92, the safety usually goes UP for "Fire" and down for "Safe."

The Makarov is an exception. It has a slide mounted safety, but it goes UP for "Safe" and down for "Fire."

Slide mounted safeties commonly also work to decock the pistol. If the pistol has a decocker or safety/decocker, this should be used instead of manually trying to decock the pistol. (The possible exception is the Walther P-38 and the CZ-52 as both designs are known to break and fire the pistol when the decocker is used).


For pistols with a safety mounted on the frame, like a 1911, Browning High Power, or CZ-75, the safety goes UP for "Safe" or down for "Fire." A frame mounted safety almost never also acts as a decocker.

With any pistol, if there is a red dot on one of the safety positions, that would be the "fire" setting. Red = danger

[dagger dog]

How many can lock and rock, a full auto? That's what your going to find as a battlefeild pick up.

Could you master a AR Uzi, AK, AKM, FAL, AUG within the time it takes to not become a statistic?

It would take some practice with the ones you are not intimate!

[Trebor]

How many can lock and rock, a full auto? That's what your going to find as a battlefeild pick up.

"Battlefield Pickup" doesn't mean it has to be an *actual* battlefield.

It's just a catchy, descriptive term for only having access to an unfamiliar gun in an emergency.

I know of handgun training classes where all the students shoot an unfamiliar gun cold as a drill.

The idea is that you might not have access to your own gun, or even a familiar gun, in an emergency, so it's a good idea to know how to work other kinds of guns as welll.

[Sam1911]

Quote:
How many can lock and rock, a full auto? That's what your going to find as a battlefeild pick up.
"Battlefield Pickup" doesn't mean it has to be an *actual* battlefield.

Well the point is still precisely valid. Not a big deal with an M-16 maybe, but the look on folks faces is pretty priceless the first time they rack the charging handle on an Uzi...and then can't for the life of them figure out how to get it to go FORWARD again!

I'd say getting the hang of operating (and accurately shooting) open-bolt guns is a good skill to obtain.

And, can you feed and charge a belt-fed gun? Perhaps not quite so common, but a good skill to practice.

-Sam

[BCRider]

As sport shooters I think the most common scenario is that we'll be faced with a firearm belonging to a buddy or fellow shooter that is left laying on the ground due to an accident, heart attack, stroke or some other misfortune.

Being familiar enough with a variety of firearms to be able to make the pickup safe is the important factor I'd say.

Now if you're a LEO or a soldier where you may need to USE the recovered weapon then that's a whole other story.....

[evan price]

We all should be able to walk into any burnt-out sporting goods store in any half-demolished mall anywhere in the world, with all the Zombies chasing us, and be able to pick up anything that might be left on the racks, load it, charge it, and know how to get on target with it. Otherwise, your brain = zombie chow.

[Mp7]

"Battlefield Pickup" has me thinking of the selfmade
armor plated cars the A-Team usually puts together :)

[usmc1371]

Some of the sub guns are fun.. The MP5 is something that everyone should get the chance to learn and shoot. the uzi and mac 10 would be cool to. As belt guns go the 249 SAW is very common and the 240G is seen quite a bit both of wich take a little training to load and opperate. Now if you want to confuse some one set them down behind a MK19 :)

Back to real life why is it that I watch cops and it never fails some officer has a revolver in his hands and has to ask some one how to unload it or where the safety is? I could maybe understand it if it was a single action.

[David E]

There are many reasons to know how different styles of guns work. this would include taking the gun a badguy has and turning it against him (and/or his buddies) as quickly as possible.

Do you know where the safety is on an AK? Know how to take it off? Will it be noisy?

Is that Browning Hi Power chamber loaded? Does it have a magazine safety?

How do you chamber a round in an HK series rifle?

Does that mugger's Colt 1911 have the hammer cocked? If not, what does that mean to you?

This type of knowledge can be very useful.

.

[sgt127]

When I teach a shooting school, with Officers from different agencies (Doesn't work in house, we all have the same issue gun) I make the Officers pass thier guns down the line with brief instructions on how to use it. Everybody gets to shoot a few rounds through everybody elses gun. Its not a high speed excersise, lest someone hand a cocked and unlocked 1911 to the next shooter, but, its just a little something to make them familiar with diffferent guns.

When I worked patrol, I did the gun of the week demonstration at briefings. Every week I would bring in a different action type of handgun. Discussed how it worked, how to clear it, how to make it safe, how you might be able to render it inoperable if you are fighting someone for it. After briefing, everybody got to come up and play with it, handle it etc.

I started it when my Officers would call me from the streets on a gun call, they found a gun on an arrest or at the scene of a crime and had no idea how to even clear the gun and unload it. Alot of our current Officers have handled exactly one handgun in thier lives, the issue Glock 35. Hand them a single action revolver and it was like a neandrethal staring at a gyroscope.

[X-Rap]

The last 2 posts really hit it on the head. I don't think women and kids should be excluded.
The fact that one is in the military or LE in no way means they have been instructed on anything but what they have been issued.
I remember seeing reports from the early days of the Iraq war and all of the different types of weapons that were found, I'd say the patrol officer in the USA would also encounter similar variety.
BTW I would love to have a MK19 on my battlefield pickup.

[sturmgewehr]

Are there really zombies?

[highorder]

Does that mugger's Colt 1911 have the hammer cocked? If not, what does that mean to you?

In the heat of the moment, I wouldn't notice it was a Para LDA and I'd get shot for my trouble ;)

[WardenWolf]

Or, if I come home finding myself staring down my own AK, does he have the safety off? If not, it's almost a surefire bet he didn't charge the gun, either, since that requires turning off the safety to do so. In that case, I'd pretend to cooperate and then snatch it out of his hands. An AK with a skeleton stock is particularly easy to take away from an opponent that lets you get too close.

[Funderb]

It can't be too hard to figure things out. If you are not being shot at, that is.

Maybe 10 minutes with a fully assembled gun, and you'll be able to take it apart and put it back together like it was your own. Regardless of the complexity.

[WardenWolf]

Or less if you're a technical / mechanical wizard.

[BCRider]

Are there really zombies?


You've never dealt with any government departments?

:D

[Duke of Doubt]

Funder B: "Maybe 10 minutes with a fully assembled gun, and you'll be able to take it apart and put it back together like it was your own. Regardless of the complexity."

I don't know; I recently had to show a very knowledgeable and experienced gun dealer how to work the action of a Hakim -- and without losing a finger or two when it closed. Thing chopped the end off the (narrow) dowel I used to release the bolt carrier. That impressed everyone in the shop.

[James T Thomas]

"rteam:"

You can receive training on most every shoulder fired weapon, crew served weapons, both foreign and domestic by joining an "A Team."
"Free Instruction." However, as always read the fine print.
It is a good skill to have, but the practical application for it is very limited.

One of the posters said that if things became that bad, that you could obtain a weapon from a fallen comrad. So true.

[mike724]

The first time I ever handled a benelli shotgun was when I found one on the trail last spring. I was able to safe and unload it. When I showed it to a friend at the campfire that evening, we learned it was his!

[lloveless]

when picking up an weapon from a fallen comrade/enemy check to make sure the barrel is clear before firing.
lloveless

[Duke of Doubt]

Rule of thumb: just about every gun you will find in the woods is loaded. Frozen campers, lost hunters, clumsy hunters, and for some reason even suicides tend to load a full magazine.

[armedandsafe]

Dan Wesson revolver release is in front of the cylinder, left side.

Gun in right hand: Drop gun into left hand, pull down release with left thumb, press cylinder out into palm of left hand.

Gun in left hand: Place right hand over top of gun, push release down and press the cylinder out into the palm of left hand.

In either case, you are now holding the gun by the cylinder. Place thumb on cylinder rod, muzzle up and press the cases out. Drop muzzle down and insert cartridges with your right hand.

Roll the cylinder as you are closing it.

Pops

[Bix]

I've done battlefield pickup drills in a couple classes, including one where every 'pickup' was a Glock of some sort. That was kinda funny :).

[DAdams]

I thought this was a thread about how to convert a Dodge Power Wagon into a battlefield pick-up. :banghead:

[sturmgewehr]

You've never dealt with any government departments?
Sure, I work for the government. I'm here to help you.

:D

[kd7nqb]

I think a more useful skill is knowing what ammo can go where, and what is exchangeable.

[rteam2]

Wow, interesting thoughts have got me thinking too. Thanks for the input

[MDG1976]

Is a tin foil helmet appropriate garb for "battlefield pickup" training?

[Lonestar.45]

Information is power. The more you know, in any situation, is better than the alternative. Will it pay off? Maybe, probably not, but since folks fill their heads with all kinds of useless trivia these days, why not bone up on gun related knowledge?

Here's a fun game--try to break down a S&W 5906 w/out instructions or help and put it back together the first time, or a Ruger Mk I .22. I have, it's not fun, and I couldn't do it again if I tried. Dad can keep those guns at his house from now on and clean them himself!

[Hungry Seagull]

I watched a video some time ago about a Marine who was under direct fire from an enemy and his cover was a sort of a rock wall. What stood out was his use of the AK style weapon.

The video does leave the question hanging as to the outcome of the fight as one or few rounds land just about on the Marine's face forcing him to get down and quits playing afterwards.

I do worry about one little item.

Pick up a weapon, reach into your ammo pouch and jam something that may not quite be the same caliber out of habit. Sort of like trying to get a .45 into a 9mm.

I would not want to learn the results.

[REAPER4206969]

A frame mounted safety almost never also acts as a decocker.
CZ-50, CZ-52, CZ-70, Heckler und Koch USP, I belive the tuarus pt-92 and some Beretta's.

ETA: Also many European auto-loading pistols with a frame mounted safety have up as FIRE and down as SAFE.

[WardenWolf]

The idea was to borrow or rent a handgun you'd never fired before and then shoot the match "cold."

If I wanted to be evil doing such a match, I'd bring my father's 1972 Ruger Mark I and load it with standard velocity ammo. Unless you feed it CCI Mini Mags, it jams constantly. It's not particularly accurate, either. That gun is just a little ball of hate. I did a lot of work on it, and finally got it running acceptably, but you have to feed it right.

[jim in Anchorage]

I thought this was about 1851 Colt navys,found at Gettysburg.

[rogertc1]

When I was in the Army I shot every firearm that the US and the Gooks had in my training. Then again I have about every type of firearm made out there in my collection...except full-auto.

[chuckusaret]

My wife has mastered the characteristics of all my handguns but is having a rough time with my Dillon M134D Gatling Gun

[Hostile Amish]

If you know how to shoot a:

-1911
-Glock
-Beretta Mod. 92
-AK-type rifle
-AR-type rifle

You're in good shape.

[Ben Shepherd]

Knowing the basics of a lot of different actions is always a good thing. As a range officer and hunter education instructor the list of 22's I can't manipulate is shrinking pretty rapidly, that's for sure.