Clip vs Magazine


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Cannonball888
February 24, 2009, 01:30 PM
I'm not trying to start another terminology war but I just wanted to point out an extreme example of the misuse of the word clip in place of what should be magazine. I'm sure some people may have gotten used to calling a stick magazine a clip because of the historic misuse of term in Hollywood movies but to apply the word clip to a drum magazine is just beyond belief.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=123485857

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The Lone Haranguer
February 24, 2009, 01:52 PM
There's lots 'a' ca'tridges in that clip! ;)

Although it might work in an AK, it is not actually made for the AK, is it?

Cannonball888
February 24, 2009, 01:57 PM
Sure it is. It looks like a Chinese or Bulgarian wind-up AK drum.

The Lone Haranguer
February 24, 2009, 02:01 PM
I was thinking of a light machine gun - RPK?

Cannonball888
February 24, 2009, 02:08 PM
Possibly. I know they fit AKs because I have one. Anyone know if drums were specifically made for RPKs?

Walkalong
February 24, 2009, 02:20 PM
Drum clip :eek:

Is that worse than just calling it a clip? :D

jackstinson
February 24, 2009, 02:21 PM
A "drum clip" is what you use instead of a live drummer when doing solo recording.

earplug
February 24, 2009, 02:31 PM
I keyed the safety off my revolver and loaded a full clip of 230 grain 45 ACP's.

sturmgewehr667
February 24, 2009, 03:34 PM
A "drum clip" is what you use instead of a live drummer when doing solo recording.

you hit the nail on the head

DesmoDucRob
February 24, 2009, 04:04 PM
Nope, a drum clip is the barbed portion of saltwater hook used for catching redfish (red drum).

Anyone else?...

matrem
February 24, 2009, 05:37 PM
Drum clip
Who was it that called them "30 round banana clips" a while back?
Think I saw that on television this past fall?

shotgunjoel
February 24, 2009, 07:55 PM
Wow, that's sad.

frogomatic
February 24, 2009, 07:59 PM
Lindy (the best gunsmithing instructor I know of) always said this in regards to clip/magazine terminology. "clips load magazines, magazines load guns, except for the garand"

Izaak Walton
February 24, 2009, 08:01 PM
Who was it that called them "30 round banana clips" a while back?

That would be any news report in the US of A :banghead:

PRE 64 JOE
February 24, 2009, 08:06 PM
If it has a spring it is a magazine, if it don't it's a clip. ;)

Tennesseean
February 24, 2009, 08:49 PM
"clips load magazines, magazines load guns, except for the garand"

Why an exception for the Garand? It is fed by an 8 round en bloc clip.

Cannonball888
February 24, 2009, 09:18 PM
I agree with Tennesseean. The Garand is no exception. You have to think of the Garand as having an internal box magazine and yes there is a spring. However the Garand's magazine doesn't work without an internal enbloc clip which is used to load the magazine which is the definition of a clip. The Carcano also uses an enbloc clip (often erroneusly called a stripper clip) in a similar way as the Garand even though it is a bolt gun.

ThrottleJockey
February 24, 2009, 10:02 PM
That's a CRAPPY chinese drum. Mine are all Romanian, and they ROCK. No over or under winding the spring. They cost a ittle more, but are well worth it!

crazy-mp
February 24, 2009, 11:12 PM
If you have ever been through this town in Missouri you would know why it was listed the way it was. The people from Deliverance would roll the windows up and lock the doors when they go through there, ok maybe not that bad. But defiantly a little off.

If you are from there and get offended, send me a message I will tell you my story from your fair town.

DoubleTapDrew
February 25, 2009, 12:03 AM
Clip is a word you put in the title of a gunbroker auction to allow your auction to be viewed by all the people who search for "clips". A lot of those people are also the same type of people who would pay over $200 for an AK drum.
Magazine= spring
clip= no spring

frogomatic
February 25, 2009, 12:19 AM
Why an exception for the Garand? It is fed by an 8 round en bloc clip.

It was meant with a small dose of humor due to the nature of the garand.

Cannonball888
February 25, 2009, 12:53 AM
That's a CRAPPY chinese drum. Mine are all Romanian, and they ROCK. No over or under winding the spring. They cost a ittle more, but are well worth it!
Romanian drums do not cost more. They are the cheapest drums on the market---not less reliable, just cheaper. Chinese drums are collectables due to the fact they've been banned from import and can fetch as much as the seller is asking. Bulgarian wind-ups function like the Chinese ones and even thoigh they are not banned from import still fetch a higher price on the market than the Romanians. Another thing you left out was that wind-up drums can be loaded 2-3 times faster than a Romanian.

triggerman7.62
February 25, 2009, 08:02 AM
As annoying as it is, I love to see the miss use of fire arms terms in the movies and media, helps me know who knows what they are talking about and who thinks they know something because they saw it in the movies or on the news. My big pet-peeve is the term ‘assault rifle’ when talking about a semi-auto rifle.

sturmgewehr667
February 25, 2009, 05:33 PM
due to the nature of the garand.

i hope you mean nature of being awesome

sturmgewehr667
February 25, 2009, 05:36 PM
They cost a ittle more, but are well worth it!

they are cheaper, and you need to load one round at a time, but with the chinese drums, you can pop open the back and load all at once.

Rampant_Colt
February 27, 2009, 07:23 AM
My banana clip holds thirty bullets

Go look in Cabela's - they call 'em "magazine clips" :rolleyes:

madmike
February 27, 2009, 07:29 AM
Marlin rifles come with "Clip magazines."

Yup, and "slugs" are fired from "shell casings" by "gunpowder."

BTW, most stripper and en bloc clips DO HAVE or ARE springs.

The spring retains the cartridges in the clip/ charger. It's still a spring, though.

Avoids starting flame war about the worst semiauto in history.

1911Tuner
February 27, 2009, 07:37 AM
Much ado over nothing, IMO. I never actively correct the mistake...either in person on on a gun board. Why embarass someone unnecessarily, but instead just refer to it passively by its proper name at some point in the discussion. If asked...I will clarify.

Otherwise, if I know what he means and he knows what he means...it's not worth arguing over, and it's a waste of bandwidth on a forum...and it's been cussed and discussed countless times.

Bullet/cartridge? Yeah...as a handloader, I can see how there could be a little confusion...but I generally reserve a correction until I can determine whether the guy is talking about bullets or loaded ammo. Otherwise...If I know what he means, and he knows what he means...why embarass him by calling him on it and giving him a lecture...especially if there are others present?

sniper5
February 27, 2009, 11:34 AM
When I describe my Ishapore 2A and mention that it can be reloaded with either clips or magazines, I generally get a puzzled look and "What's the difference?"

It usually isn't important and I don't bother people with it. But consider this: You see a small ad with no illustrations advertising clips for an Enfield for $5. If these are magazines that is an unbelievable bargain. If they are strippers it is an unbelievable ripoff.

So it may matter. Sometimes.

Rampant_Colt
February 27, 2009, 01:09 PM
http://i42.tinypic.com/awye6b.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/4r2ctv.jpg

Yes, there is a difference between clips and magazines. It's not splitting hairs or being pedandic.

CoRoMo
February 27, 2009, 01:45 PM
I have a subscription to...

American Rifleman Clip

and

Guns & Ammo Clip

and

Field & Stream Clip


:D:neener::neener::D

jay870
February 28, 2009, 03:03 AM
I cant believe people still argue about this one or even notice there is a difference. Oh wait, they dont notice. Here lyes the problem....

woad_yurt
February 28, 2009, 03:29 AM
Kinda like everyone calling every 9X18 pistol a Makarov. I hear ya....

madmike
February 28, 2009, 04:41 AM
CoRoMo: So, youtube has clips and the bookstore has magazines.

Am I right?

1911: By that argument, what's the problem with calling an AR15 a "machine gun"? Most people don't know the difference, but if we all know what they mean, what's it matter what it's called?

BHP FAN
February 28, 2009, 04:46 AM
If WE don't use the correct terms,we can't get all pissy when reporters call our semi-autos ''assault rifles''.A clip holds ammo,a magazine is inserted into a firearm. Anyone that owns an AK or SKS can tell you what a 'clip' is. The picture Rampant Colt posted should be clear enough for almost anyone to understand.

Dookie
February 28, 2009, 06:36 AM
I still have no idea why it's such a big deal. I mean is this really an argument? It doesn't matter. Go worry about whether there is going to be a new gun ban.

1911Tuner
February 28, 2009, 07:56 AM
1911: By that argument, what's the problem with calling an AR15 a "machine gun"? Most people don't know the difference, but if we all know what they mean, what's it matter what it's called?

Besides taking my comment out of context...It's one thing to correct a mistake made by a reporter or politician...and we should stick to our guns on that point, among others.

But, to argue amongst ourselves to the point that it nearly becomes a brawl? Silly...pointless...and its just one more example of how the concept of "Divide and Conquer" works.

If someone who is completely new to guns joins, looking for comraderie and information makes the mistake of misnaming a part...clip/magazine...cartridge/bullet...barrel/muzzle, etc....and we pounce on him in the manner that I've seen too often... and humiliate him...there's a good chance that we've lost an ally.

We can correct the mistake, and educate in a much more civil manner, and we can do it without flaming one another for all to see. It just takes a little thouht and an application of tact.

When we let little things like this turn into a urinary skirmish, we leave the impression that we really are the redneck, knuckle dragging morons that we've been portrayed as by the media...the entertainment industry...and the politicians who feel that we have neither the intellect nor the self-control to be trusted with weapons.

Think about it like this:

If you'd walked into your first geometry class, and the teacher made you feel like an idiot for not knowing the value of Pi...would that have instilled a desire to learn...or to drop the class?

Since it seems to be a pet peeve and a point of contention, it would probably be a good idea to light a candle instead of cursing at the darkness. I suggest a thread containing proper nomenclature, terms, and definitions. I'll lead off and make it a sticky so that anyone who has anything more to contribute may do so. Look for it later today.

madmike
March 1, 2009, 12:26 AM
I still have no idea why it's such a big deal. I mean is this really an argument? It doesn't matter. Go worry about whether there is going to be a new gun ban.

A ban on "cop killer bullets" and "Assault weapons" and "gun show loopholes" and "automatic weapons."

Yup. No big deal at all.;)

Tuner: I agree it should not be a brawl. At the same time, people should be encouraged to use proper nomenclature. I've even heard people refer to recoil as "kickback." I certainly wouldn't want to shoot a weapon that "kicked back."

Since there IS a difference between clips and magazines (I mean, I'd fight a ban on "high capacity clips" on principle, but it would affect me a lot less than a ban on "high capacity magazines), it makes sense to try to keep them discreet.

Geronimo45
March 1, 2009, 12:37 AM
Go look in Cabela's - they call 'em "magazine clips"
For good reason. Somebody does an online search for "AK47 clip" and never sees what they're looking for, and doesn't give Cabela's business.
Some sales staff with little/no firearms knowledge is searching the stockroom for the elusive "Glock 40 clip" and doesn't have a damn clue what that might be.

May contribute to the degradation of firearms terminology, but there are good reasons for it.

ACBMWM3
March 1, 2009, 02:47 AM
It seems people use Clip for handguns and mag for rifles from what ive heard people say.

buttrap
March 1, 2009, 05:13 AM
I was thinking that a "clip" or a "wax" was what girls do in to not look so nasty in a swim suit

PCGS65
March 1, 2009, 05:39 AM
A magazine is what you order clips out of. :rolleyes:

Rampant_Colt
March 2, 2009, 09:45 PM
For good reason. Somebody does an online search for "AK47 clip" and never sees what they're looking for, and doesn't give Cabela's business.
Some sales staff with little/no firearms knowledge is searching the stockroom for the elusive "Glock 40 clip" and doesn't have a damn clue what that might be.

May contribute to the degradation of firearms terminology, but there are good reasons for it.
Excellent point - never considered that...

Duke of Doubt
March 2, 2009, 09:53 PM
I think the confusion over detachable magazines/clips arose with the M1 Garand. For years, Army and Navy guys got used to putting "clips" into the gun; the "magazine" was an integral part of the gun, sort of like the M1903 Springfield and M1917 Enfield, and for the M1 Garand, that terminology was correct. And it didn't help that magazines and belts were loaded in the "clip shack." So when an Old Codger calls a detachable magazine a clip, I wouldn't think of correcting him. Notice they properly call a non-detachable magazine a magazine.

Ed Ames
March 3, 2009, 12:07 PM
Webster defines a clip as: a device to hold cartridges for charging the magazines of some rifles ; also : a magazine from which ammunition is fed into the chamber of a firearm

A magazine is: a supply chamber: as a holder in or on a gun for cartridges to be fed into the gun chamber

Anyone who uses the words in a way that is consistent with those definitions is correct.

You guys are just arguing jargon. There is no better way to identify a nerd than by his obsessive defense of some arbitrary jargon as essential truth. I should know, I've made those arguments myself...

PT1911
March 3, 2009, 12:22 PM
hey... where can you get those clips for revolvers...

I have seriously heard this!!!!
granted there are moon clips available, but that wasnt the item in question.

madmike
March 4, 2009, 12:06 AM
Ed:

Webster is a dictionary that changes based on common use in the culture. It also defines various other slang. That does not make them correct usage.

And jargon is an essential part of any specialty. How can we get the public to take us seriously, and respect firearms as an intellectual pursuit of if we use non-specific terms that anyone can say?

Next post of yours better include something like "Gain twist" or "coefficient of drag" or "precession in flight" or some other technical term to protect our niche.;)

Gunsafe
March 4, 2009, 12:31 AM
I found this in Wal-mart the other night and snapped a pic with my phone. I guess advertisers and marketers know best! LOL!

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn102/ChampionBoatGuy/th_IMG00091-1.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/nn102/ChampionBoatGuy/?action=view&current=IMG00091-1.jpg)

madmike
March 5, 2009, 12:08 AM
That's photoshop! It doesn't exist!
LALALALALALA ICAN'THEARYOU!

DoubleTapDrew
March 5, 2009, 12:51 AM
1911Tuner's post #37 should be a sticky on every gun board.
You know what they mean, they are probably new to shooting, they might be old-school (I notice it's quite prevalent with the folks who grew up with garands that took clips then later, magazines in the M1A). You can politely correct them if you feel the need but we need all the allies we can get.

Brian Dale
March 5, 2009, 01:21 AM
There is no better way to identify a nerd than by his obsessive defense of some arbitrary jargon as essential truth.You don't have to work that hard. All you have to do is look at me... ;)

The distinction that works for me, and which will distinguish them even with spring steel clips and M1/1903/Mauser internal magazines is the one that was given to my marksmanship class by an ROTC instructor named Sergeant Crane in about 1978:

"A magazine has a spring and follower. A clip doesn't."

Thoughts?

I absolutely agree that it's impolite and counterproductive to beat newbies and bystanders up with nasty comments about the differences between the two terms.

1911Tuner
March 5, 2009, 06:42 AM
I absolutely agree that it's impolite and counterproductive to beat newbies and bystanders up with nasty comments about the differences between the two terms.

Indeed. It doesn't require any more effort to be nice than to be nasty and/or condescending. Those who persist should remember that none of us was born all-knowing. Each one teach one.

chuckusaret
March 5, 2009, 05:20 PM
Gee, back in the day in the Army the newbie would have given me at least 25 push ups for calling a magazine a clip.

1911Tuner
March 5, 2009, 05:23 PM
Gee, back in the day in the Army the newbie would have given me at least 25 push ups for calling a magazine a clip.

Or for calling a rifle a gun... :D

madmike
March 6, 2009, 12:04 AM
In the Army, yes. However, proper USAF nomenclature for a bullet shooter is, in fact, "gun.":neener:

Wesson Smith
March 6, 2009, 12:49 AM
I know the guys who work at my local shop have given up on the
whole terminology thing. There are so many first-time buyers now,
and virtually every one of them refers to a magazine as a "clip".
"Does the Glock 19 come with an extra clip?", etc., etc. As one of
the guys put it - "If they're really interested in buying, I don't
give a rat's arse what they call it". I suppose it really doesn't
matter a hoot, but it still grates on me personally. I guess I'm
just an old coot. :rolleyes:

Ohio Gun Guy
March 6, 2009, 12:53 AM
For all of you purists and/or perfectionists; one of these lines is wrong, can you find it? :evil:

I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a clip a magazine, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip, I will not call a magazine a clip.

Brian Dale
March 6, 2009, 01:01 AM
6th row, LH column is different, anyway. Never tease an old proofreader. ;)

HammerBite
March 6, 2009, 01:04 AM
It seems to me that all the lines are correct. The line "I will not call a clip a magazine" is a red herring just to fool us. You're not supposed to call a clip a magazine, so that line is as valid as the others.

feudalson
March 6, 2009, 01:06 AM
after a certain time of use in a laugage its considered acceptable for instance gay used to mean happy and cool ment kinda cold... and so on... clip/magizine... gun/firearm,, its all the same and it all works

Ohio Gun Guy
March 6, 2009, 01:14 AM
I think it is "Jargon".

1. the specialized language of a trade, profession, or similar group

2. The special language of a profession or group. The term jargon usually has pejorative associations, with the implication that jargon is evasive, tedious, and unintelligible to outsiders. The writings of the lawyer and the literary critic are both susceptible to jargon

3. A vocabulary common to a particular field of work or group of people. For example, the language used by doctors to discuss their work is different to the language used by lawyers to discuss their work.

*from "Definitions of jargon on the Web" @ Google:

chuckusaret
March 6, 2009, 08:02 AM
In the Army, yes. However, proper USAF nomenclature for a bullet shooter is, in fact, "gun."

The Air Farce! We are talking about people that shoot weapons. How many airman have ever seen a real weapon or dissembled/ assembled one.
The U.S. Air Force's active and reserve components have used the FATS systems for their security force training over 13 years.Today, units of the U.S. Air Force ground combat arms training community train with FATS systems in the Continental U.S., in Europe and in Asia.

FATS(R) is a company that is a producer ofsimulation systems designed to provide training in the handling and use of small and supporting arms for law enforcement, military and commercial applications.
The airman never touch a real weapon, they play video games that call the weapons guns.

slzy
March 6, 2009, 12:54 PM
i thought just yesterday about some people calling psls' and the like dragunovs. at least as bad or worse than clips-mags.

Duke of Doubt
March 6, 2009, 02:23 PM
BrainDale: ""A magazine has a spring and follower. A clip doesn't." Thoughts?"

Sgt. Crane was somewhat off. Not all magazines have springs and followers (e.g., top-load or belt-fed), and some stripper clips (e.g., SKS, AR-15) have springs. But for modern American weapons, he's pretty much on point.

Brian Dale
March 6, 2009, 03:31 PM
But for modern American weapons, he's pretty much on point.He probably also explained it more extensively than with just the quote I've given above. He told us that a magazine had both a spring and a follower. To me, that even fits for an M1, where the en bloc clip is itself a spring and the follower is powered by the op rod spring via the follower rod.

I seem to recall that he gave his definition as we were all standing around holding the magazines of the Smith Model 41 target pistols that we were using. We all looked at them and went, "Ohhh, I get it now." We didn't call Model 41 mags "clips" after that. :)

madmike
March 7, 2009, 12:35 AM
The Air Farce! We are talking about people that shoot weapons. How many airman have ever seen a real weapon or dissembled/ assembled one.
The U.S. Air Force's active and reserve components have used the FATS systems for their security force training over 13 years.Today, units of the U.S. Air Force ground combat arms training community train with FATS systems in the Continental U.S., in Europe and in Asia.

FATS(R) is a company that is a producer ofsimulation systems designed to provide training in the handling and use of small and supporting arms for law enforcement, military and commercial applications.
The airman never touch a real weapon, they play video games that call the weapons guns.


I shot expert (46/50, including ten rounds in protective mask) at 50-300 yards with live ammo in the USAF, and deployed with a GUU5P.

Since the USAF is filling in for Army MPs, Engineers(you're welcome), drivers, EOD, mechanics, etc, and isn't desperate enough to try to recall females with kids in IRR as drivers when there are scads of other qualified individuals, and still manages to put me in billeting for drill with a room to myself, wireless, TV/VCR/DVD and fridge/micro...

and since I did 6 years on the Army side, where, as former USAF I shot expert every year, and TAUGHT BRM to soldiers, who liked the term "banana clip" for "30 round magazine" and sometimes had trouble counting to 7 to load pistol magazines (I have witnesses)...

and since my wife is full time Army Guard (Technician) at MUTC combat training center (Cadre)(where they have llamas and high explosives), your attempt at an insult =

http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2008-01/shipment-of-fail.jpg


Now, can we get back to clips vs magazines?;) Or should I point out that the IN Army Guard no longer lets the Air Guard compete in rifle match, because we humiliated them too often?:neener:

Besides, I thought we were all on the same team.

At least you're not a Marine, so I don't have to use small words;)

But seriously, I'm considering transferring to the Coast Guard. I even passed the height requirement. 6'. So if the boat sinks I can wade ashore.:evil:

I'll get the Navy next time, unless one of the Marines would like to...seeing as they're a department of the Navy...

the MEN's department.

Now, back to clips vs magazines, yes?

Colloquially, people are going to call them what they want. However, we should politely correct people who are learning, because there IS a difference.

Brian Dale
March 7, 2009, 01:25 AM
Chuck, I hear that if you buy three of his books, he'll skip telling everybody in future that you wrote that.

{Oh, wait...no, I made that up :evil: }

madmike
March 7, 2009, 06:47 PM
I will be qualifying next month, too. As far as I know, live ammo.

BTW, FATS can be programmed for friend/foe scenarios...which is how we used it in 76th Infty Bde...in the ARMY.;)

BHP FAN
March 7, 2009, 07:07 PM
''"A magazine has a spring and follower. A clip doesn't..."

Never heard it put better.Yes,one could nit pick about the flat spring built into the Mauser stripper,but for making the point to adults that should know better,it should work.

Ruggles
March 7, 2009, 07:50 PM
One of the oldest and most pointless things on gun forums really. The terms are interchangeable and have been for decades, get over it already people.

Clip ~ Magazine
Magazine ~ Clip

Does anybody really not know what is meant when either is used?

Stop it already people you are beating a dead and useless point.

earlthegoat2
March 7, 2009, 08:23 PM
One of my least favorite terms: Banana Clip

rojocorsa
March 7, 2009, 10:18 PM
Need I say more?

1911Tuner
March 7, 2009, 10:42 PM
Colloquially, people are going to call them what they want. However, we should politely correct people who are learning, because there IS a difference.

Amen

One of the oldest and most pointless things on gun forums really. The terms are interchangeable and have been for decades, get over it already people.

And Amen!

And we've used enough bandwidth on this one...again...for about the 503rd time in a year. If this was my jurisdiction, I'd close it because there really is no point in going further.

madmike
March 9, 2009, 08:38 AM
I think there's other, more important issues to discuss.

"Automatic" vs "Self-loading."

"Case" vs "Casing."

"Bullet" vs "Slug."

"Gunpowder" vs "Propellant."

"Shrapnel" vs "Fragment."

"Cover" vs "Concealment."

"Fuse" vs "Fuze."

"Stock" vs "Grip."

"Pistol" vs "Revolver."

Shall we?:)

madmike
March 9, 2009, 08:40 AM
Ruggles: That depends. I have both clips and magazines for my ARs and AKs. Which do you want?

And a magazine problem in a Garand is a significantly bigger issue than for an AR.

Brian Dale
March 9, 2009, 03:30 PM
Shall we? :) Thanks just the same; let's not. :)

slzy
March 10, 2009, 05:56 PM
well,does'nt concealment mean your behind something that bullets will go through,and cover means you are behind something that will stop the projectiles someone is shooting with at you?

madmike
March 11, 2009, 12:05 AM
Slzy: Correct.

You'd be amazed how many people don't know that.

What's shrapnel vs fragments?

Brian Dale
March 11, 2009, 12:37 AM
Shrapnel's a type of artillery shell, IIRC. The projectile is essentially a flying shotgun shell that goes off when it's near its target (usually troops rather than structures), to discharge--what, ball bearings?

It's named for the British officer who invented it.

Ah...looked it up: usually contained lead balls, also called bullets.

DoubleTapDrew
March 11, 2009, 12:40 AM
Well I have my grandpa's flak jacket from when he was a C130 pilot, so I can don that when people start giving me flak, I suppose :D

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