[MDG1976]

What are the hottest 357 magnum loads out there and what kind of energy do they have?

[Brian Williams]

Before you go any further with this, WHY?
Hot loads tend to break things, Are you hunting with a Ruger Blackhawk, carrying a S&W 340 for SD, using a 4" S&W 27 for your bedside gun????
There are a bunch of hot loads, 125GrJHP, 158grLSWC for hunting little stuff, 180gr stuff for heavy hitting, What are you going to use this load for?

[MDG1976]

Before you go any further with this, WHY?
Hot loads tend to break things, Are you hunting with a Ruger Blackhawk, carrying a S&W 340 for SD, using a 4" S&W 27 for your bedside gun????
There are a bunch of hot loads, 125GrJHP, 158grLSWC for hunting little stuff, 180gr stuff for heavy hitting, What are you going to use this load for?


I was just curious about the maximum ft-lbs that this cartridge is capable of.

[goodtime]

Take a look:

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm

I haven't shot them, but BBA is a very reputable company.

[MDG1976]

Wow! 802 ft-lbs for Buffalo Bore's 125 gr JHC. Impressive.

[earlthegoat2]

Hornady Lever Evolutions are nice too at 140grns @ 1440fps.

[Thingster]

The original .357 load was a 158 grain LSWC at 1550 from an 8 3/8" barrel. That's about equivalent to what buffalobore is getting out of their 158's in a 6" barrel (as in, shoot a BB from a 8 3/8 and you'll probably be cooking along right about 1550).

Buffalo Bore is the hottest you can get commercially.

In a heavy frame gun, these really aren't that bad. I have however shot one from a ruger sp101. With a gun that light, the shooter really is the limiting factor.

[ArmedBear]

Lil' Gun handloads look similar to the BB stuff, BTW.

Specs show these as having lower pressure than other magnum loads. Interesting stuff...:)

[MCgunner]

I just discovered Lil' Gun by yakin' on this board. I'm pretty impressed with it, at least in my 20" carbine. It seems to be able to turn such a rifle into a .35 Remington light. :D BB's ballistics are impressive, but so are their prices. :rolleyes:

[ArchAngelCD]

I just discovered Lil' Gun by yakin' on this board. I'm pretty impressed with it, at least in my 20" carbine. It seems to be able to turn such a rifle into a .35 Remington light. :D
I agree, the hottest .357 Magnum stuff I ever fired are the rounds I reload. (and I shot them from a Carbine, not a revolver) Using Lil'Gun under a 180gr Cast Performance (http://www.castperformance.com/Categories.bok?category=Cast+Performance) bullet in extremely impressive. I really like the wide Mepalt on those bullets. They are hard hitting!

[ArmedBear]

BB's ballistics are impressive, but so are their prices.

Yeah.

If you have a 686+ as a nightstand gun and you want to head into the woods (those places in the mountains with trees and bears, which are kinda like hills with cactus and raccoons, but generally a lot bigger all 'round), you can grab a box of BB 180 grain at Cabela's and head out.

If you handload, though, you can just buy 100 top-notch bullets, a can of the aforementioned skeet powder, and load 'em all up for the price of a short box of BB rounds (and have a LOT of leftover powder).:D

[hoptob]

Before you go any further with this, WHY?
Hot loads tend to break things

But that's exactly why, Brian! Hot loads break things... on the business end of the muzzle :) And they are fun to shoot too. Nothing like rapidly firing full house H110 loads from a 2" snubby. ;)

Mike

[2ndAmFan]

Yeah, as has been pointed out, it really depends on the gun and application for which you wish to use it. Habitually popping heavyweight/high power loads out of a small frame snubbie isn't generally recommended for several reasons, not least of which is that the gun probably isn't designed to hold up to that kind of usage for too long. There are large heavy frame revolvers designed to take that kind of punishment.
I once knew a man who got into handloading and decided to push the velocity envelope with his Ruger SP101, 2" or 2 1/2" bbl. DUH! He cracked the forcing cone, but good, somewhere around 1850-1900 fps with a 125 gr. bullet, and is very lucky that's all that happened.

[hoptob]

Compressed charge of H110 under 125 gr. JHP is one of the full house loads recommended by Hodgdon, the powder manufacturer. This load generates 1260 fps in 2-1/4" SP101. It's a pretty hot load with wonderfull report and amazing flames. It duplicates some of the factory loads available today from Remington, Federal and Speer. I had close to thousand of these through my M640 with no ill effects and it's been my regular carry load for some time.

I do not know of any sane -- or insane -- 357 mag load capable of 1850 fps from a 2" bbl or even 6" bbl. There is hot and there is stupid. Just because a newbie filled up the case with BE and blew up his gun, doesn't mean that all magnum loads became unsafe.

Mike

[MCgunner]

One of the things that has allowed me to handload safely for 46 years is, well, I don't do STUPID things. :rolleyes: I still have all my hands and fingers. If you UNDERSTAND what you are doing, use the proper tools, don't exceed manuals and load recommendations that are tested for pressures in pressure barrels, follow safe procedures, you can load safe loads that will match anything the factory can do.....usually. The Hornady light magnum stuff uses a rather unique factory proprietory method of packing a lot of slow powder into a small space that I've never tried to duplicate, not sure it can be done by the handloader. But, stuff like BB, if you can figure out and buy the powder they use or one that is similar, you can duplicate it safely. It'll give the same pressures for the same results. You have to do a little research sometimes, but the internet helps a lot just by being able to get results on loads that other folks have done if nothing else, saving you some wild goose chases. I never knew how BB got those high claims until I stumbled on Lil' Gun from recommendations from shooters on this board. After thoroughly as possible researching the powder and this application, I've found the answer. :D It is well within SAAMI and it works. It is my theory that the powder burns longer (slower), yet is dense enough to fit in the .357 case rather well, without even compressed loads, rather unusual. IOW, it has a longer pressure peak at lower pressures to push a heavy bullet down a long barrel more efficiently than a faster powder. It's pretty much that simple. But, normally, slower powders are less dense and require more case volume to reach decent pressures. The .357 case is rather limited in case volume, so finding a powder like Lil' Gun that can fit in that case and produce a longer pressure peak is sort of the holy grail of handloading. If you can do that, there will be no need for Hornady Light Magnum style methods of packing more powder into a smaller space. I don't know for sure if I'm theorizing this right, have no way to test pressure curves in the barrel, but I do know the stuff works and that's all that really matters.

Anyone that's been handloading for very long and still has all their digits has no doubt figured out that the mantra "If a little is good, more is better" is not necessarily the motto of a safe handloader. :rolleyes: I don't load ANYthing that hasn't been proven by others and preferably by the powder and bullet manufacturers and I'm real careful to work UP to max loads.

It's hard to believe anyone as into handloading as a guy that buys a chronograph would be so stupid as to push things to the point that the guy with the SP101 in the above story did. But, I guess there are guys with money out there and low IQs. The stupidity of some people can never be overestimated. :rolleyes:

[2ndAmFan]

hoptob: I didn't mean to imply that magnum loads are unsafe, and I hope you didn't take my post to mean that. I have been told by many gunsmiths that heavy/high velocity loads shouldn't be fired out of small frame revolvers regularly, but it's ok to use them now and then. I'm not trying to tell you or anyone what to shoot from their gun.
I practice with lightweight loads most of the time in my 3" snubbie, but I use 125 jhp loads clocked at 1500 fps coming out of a 5" ported barrel for defense purposes, and I do shoot a few of those once in awhile just to keep my edge.
I related the story of the newbie because not everyone here is that familiar with firearms and capabilities and I wanted to warn those who may be tempted to go too far that they could end up seriously hurt, or worse, and at the very least wreck a good gun.
Thanks
MCgunner:I agree.

[hoptob]

Thank you for clarifying, 2ndAm. Way too often a story about someone's stupid mishap strikes so much fear into other newbies that they start loading 357 mag as if it was .38-200. To your point, though, here is what Phil Sharpe ("Complete guide to handloading" 1937, p.406) had to say about developing hot loads and choosing appropriate weapon.

http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg160/hoptob/th_PSharpe1937p406.jpg (http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg160/hoptob/PSharpe1937p406.jpg?t=1235669117)

MCgunner, I think you are right about shape of Lil'gun's pressure curve. Gentleman who runs www.mountainmolds.com website has done some extensive testing; here is one of his pressure traces.

http://mountainmolds.com/pics/m1894_190_15_4LG_nice.gif

Note large size of the secondary wave and shallow valley between the waves.

Mike

[MCgunner]

Wow, cool! Thanks for that.

[Rampant_Colt]

If you want raw power for breaking things and blowing stuff up, get a .460 S&W


ps - muzzle energy doesn't incapacitate bad guys, expansion and penetration does.

[hoptob]

muzzle energy doesn't incapacitate bad guys, expansion and penetration does This may be true in Area 51 :neener: In the rest of the world there is a good correlation between muzzle energy and stopping power. Yes, I believe in Marshall & Sanoff's data. ;)

Mike

[pps]

Double Tap 158 grain Gold dots chrono almost 1500 out of my 5" N frame.

[Marvin KNox]

Quote:
muzzle energy doesn't incapacitate bad guys, expansion and penetration does
(/QUOTE)

I absolutely agree with this statement with reference to most handguns. And I don't live in area 51.

However the .357 mag. with a very long barrel and max charge can get into the velocity range where pure energy CAN turn what is normally a tempory wound cavity with most handguns into a permanent one.

With normal barrels and most handguns, excess muzzle energy doesn't do anything for us but create recoil, noise, and temporary wound cavities - once proper expansion and penetration has been reached.

In answer to the question, the most potential muzzle energy will be created by increasing velocity rather than bullet weight. Once a bullet has been chosen to fire - velocity is increased by adding powder and increasing barrel length. Slow burning powders are most appropriate with long barrels.

[Rampant_Colt]

This may be true in Area 51 In the rest of the world there is a good correlation between muzzle energy and stopping power. Yes, I believe in Marshall & Sanoff's data.
Is "Sanoff" Ed Sanow's replacement? LoL

...And which theory of theirs do you subscribe to?

[hoptob]

LOL

Not the theories -- the data. I just believe the data when I see it. Theories lie, data doesn't.

:)

Mike

[MCgunner]

So, another thread morphs into fast and light vs fat and slow? <sigh> I guess it never ends. I'll just say that there is a reason to use hot .357 loads and that's for killin' things. I have hunted and killed game with the .357. The .45 is a good self defense caliber.

[Rampant_Colt]

Not the theories -- the data. I just believe the data when I see it. Theories lie, data doesn't.
LoL - what if the person made the "data" up?

Hot .357 Magnum loads?

R-P UMC 125gr SP is pretty fierce stuff. Fifty-round box costs about $30 with the new prices.

R-P 125gr JHP
Federal 125gr JHP
Buffalo Bore 125gr Gold Dot
to name a few

what's the point of this thread again..?