Hodgdon powders -.40 S&W Lead Boolits

While I was joining the post-election buying bubble, I stocked up a few different powder brands since I wanted to try some new stuff and was paying the $20 HazMat fee anyway.

Well, having some newly made 175 gr LSWC boolits for my .40 S&W, I went to the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center (http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp) website to look for loads.

Hodgdon does not have any .40 S&W loads listed for lead bullets for any powders, including WIN 231, WIN WSF, WIN WST, and Hodgdon Titegroup.

Does anyone have any suggestions where I can get load data 175 gr LSWC for any of these powders? Also, which of these do you like for .40 S&W? I am thinking of trying the WSF first.

BTW, I am trying to find a copy of the Lyman #49 manual, but that doesn't help me tonight.

Jumping Frog
My Hornady 7th ed lists a load for 180 gr LSWC for Win231 at 3.8 to 5.7 gr max. The usual warning of starting low and working up applies.

I use 175 gr with 3.5 grs titegroup. Great practice load with little recoil. Start 10% from maximum then go up and down a couple grains each way until you get something you like. As long as your gun functions with lighter loads and the bullet leaves the barrel you are good to go. On the flip side once you detect any overpressure on the 40 which is seen in case bulging or flat primers ease on down.

I'm a big fan of W231 but for the 40 S&W I would go with HS-6.

*Edit*
I checked the Hodgdon 2008 Annual Reloading Manual (the pay for manual) and they list a 170gr Lead bullet for the 40 S&W and they list WSF and WST charges.

My rule of thumb when going from jacketed to lead, reduce the "recipe" for the same weight by .5 grain powder. Lead bullets actually travel faster from the barrel than jacketed, ultimately generating lower pressures. If you have a chrono, check muzzle speed, adjust powder to suit.

John

My range load for the .40 S&W is a hard cast 180 grain lead bullet over 4.4 grains of 231. Very comfortable to shoot.

I use 175 gr with 3.5 grs titegroup. . . . Start 10% from maximum . . .
What was the maximum?

Jumping Frog,
You do have a manual, don't you?
If not (and you should) you can get load data for Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR powders from the Hodgdon load data site (http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp).

My rule of thumb when going from jacketed to lead, reduce the "recipe" for the same weight by .5 grain powder. Lead bullets actually travel faster from the barrel than jacketed, ultimately generating lower pressures.
DELTAJOHN,
Using a .5gr reduction as an overall general rule really isn't a good idea. That reduction on a large capacity case could be too small and cause a overpressure situation or in a small capacity case bee to much of a reduction and cause a squib. If you are going to formulate a "rule of thumb" it's probably best to use a percentage rather than a fixed number. Also, lead bullets usually cause more friction in the barrel actually raising the pressures, not lowering them. That's why you usually need less powder for the same velocities.

Welcome to the forum...

I understand your point, and of course, when I work up any load I start 10% under published max, and reduce .5 to .8 grains on top of that. A squib could be a danger if not recognized, but usually if the case ejects, and is weak, I'll check the bore anyhow. If it doesn't eject, I KNOW the bullet is lodged. I haven't had a squib in 2 years, (I did when I first got my Pro 1000) because once I figured out how to properly setup my powder measure, it works flawless.

I took the bit of advice on copper to lead from an old time 83 year old reloader at my club, it has worked fine for the three powders I've tried, but you raised doubt within me, I'll investigate further into this. I appreciate the advice.

John

I understand your point, and of course, when I work up any load I start 10% under published max, and reduce .5 to .8 grains on top of that. A squib could be a danger if not recognized, but usually if the case ejects, and is weak, I'll check the bore anyhow. If it doesn't eject, I KNOW the bullet is lodged. I haven't had a squib in 2 years, (I did when I first got my Pro 1000) because once I figured out how to properly setup my powder measure, it works flawless.

I took the bit of advice on copper to lead from an old time 83 year old reloader at my club, it has worked fine for the three powders I've tried, but you raised doubt within me, I'll investigate further into this. I appreciate the advice.

John

Using WSF with 175 LSWC I developed the most accurate loads around 6.0 grains @ 1000fps +/-

You do have a manual, don't you?
If not (and you should) you can get load data for Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR powders from the Hodgdon load data site.
Yes, I have the Lee Manual. Stopped by Gander Mountain and Barnes & Noble today looking for the printed Hodgdon's manual.

The Hodgdon Load Data website that both you and I linked to does not list any loads for any cast bullets in .40 S&W.

If I remember to dig out my Lyman Cast Bullet manual I check if they have loads for the 40 S&W with lead bullets. It might no because that is an older manual and they haven't printed an update.

http://stevespages.com/400p_2_180.html

http://stevespages.com/400p_2_180.html is interesting, but he doesn't give any information about the bullet other than weight.

There is a big difference between 180 gr jacketed bullet and 180 gr cast boolit . . . . :D

Update, I did pick up the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual (3rd ed) and the printed Hodgdon book at the range today.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Manual doesn't list ANY .40 S&W loads. :fire:

The printed Hodgdon loading book "with over 5,000 loads!" didn't list a single load for any cast bullets.

The only place I am finding data is in the Lee manual. It has these 5 powders listed, but for a 200 gr lead boolit, not 175. Any thoughts on how to adjust their loads for the lighter boolit?

This should work for ya!


3N-37 From 7.3 grains to 8.1 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
800-X From 6.1 grains to 8.6 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
AA-2 From 5.8 grains to 6.5 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
AA-5 From 6.4 grains to 8.7 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
AA-7 From 7.7 grains to 11.3 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
American Select From 5.0 grains to 5.6 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
AP-70N From 5.6 grains to 6.6 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
AS-30N From 3.0 grains to 4.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Blue Dot From 7.4 grains to 11.2 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Bullseye From 4.5 grains to 6.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Clays From 3.6 grains to 4.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Enforcer From 14.5 grains to 15.3 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Green Dot From 5.3 grains to 5.8 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
HP-38 From 5.0 grains to 6.2 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
HS-6 From 7.1 grains to 9.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
HS-7 From 9.0 grains to 10.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Longshot From 8.5 grains to 10.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
N-320 From 5.2 grains to 5.9 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
N-330 From 5.5 grains to 6.7 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
N-340 From 5.5 grains to 6.9 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
N-350 From 6.6 grains to 7.7 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
PB From 5.8 grains to 6.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Power Pistol From 6.2 grains to 9.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Silhouette From 6.9 grains to 7.4 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Solo 1500 From 6.9 grains to 8.4 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
SR-4756 From 5.9 grains to 8.5 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
SR-7625 From 6.0 grains to 6.4 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Titegroup From 4.7 grains to 6.2 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
True Blue From 5.5 grains to 8.7 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Unique From 5.8 grains to 8.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
Universal From 4.9 grains to 7.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
W-231 From 4.9 grains to 6.5 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
W-540 From 7.0 grains to 9.3 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
W-571 From 8.0 grains to 10.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
WAP From 6.4 grains to 8.8 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
WSF From 5.8 grains to 7.5 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
WSL From 4.5 grains to 5.6 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
WST From 5.5 grains to 6.0 grains
Winchester WSP Primer
ZIP From 5.4 grains to 5.7 grains
Winchester WSP Primer

Have fun,

This should work for ya!

3N-37 From 7.3 grains to 8.1 grains
...
I guessed you missed the part about
http://stevespages.com/400p_2_180.html is interesting, but he doesn't give any information about the bullet other than weight.

There is a big difference between 180 gr jacketed bullet and 180 gr cast boolit . . . .

My one question: In what weapon will these loads be used?

It's not a trivial question.

Glocks (and other guns with polygonal rifling) & cast bullets are NOT a good mix.

Back about 3 - 5 years ago, there was a rash of problems with the combination. The situation even spawned an acronym to describe it: KB (ka-boom).

Polygonal rifling doesn't grip a cast bullet very well (a very hard cast bullet may change that) and (as I remember the situation) causes a build up of lead in the barrel that leads to KB. Accurate Arms #5 was somehow implicated (IIRC) in the mess.

The caveat(s): This is second hand knowledge. I've never tried cast "boolits" in a 40. I've shot a few in a Super 14 10mm Contender with decent (if unremarkable) results.

If more info is desired, I can check my source of info on this particular problem.

I've shot a couple thousand lead boolit rounds (at least) through this S&W M&P and have been perfectly happy with the results.

However, I was using Ramshot Zip and AA #7.

Now I am looking to try some of the Hodgdon powders. I loaded 4 different powder weights for WSF and shot about 300 rounds yesterday. I haven't measured all the group sizes yet.

I'll probably try the WST tomorrow, and then work down the list from there.

Don't forget to give HS-6 and Longshot a try. I'm sure you will like the results you get from HS-6. Also, I haven't tried it yet but Winchester just released a new powder aimed at the short case semi-auto rounds. AutoComp is supposed to work very well in the 40 S&W. It was developed for the 38 Super, 9mm, 40 S&W and .45 Auto so I'm guessing you will get better results than with WSF and WST which were developed primarily as shotshell powders.