List your sub-MOA factory fodder


Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 25, 2009, 02:16 PM
If you've ever had a rifle truly shoot sub-MOA with factory ammo, please state the factory ammo and rifle shot in. I don't think I ever have consistently. I've had consistent 2 MOA groups with certain factory, but not 1 MOA. Serious responses / actual measured results only please. Thanks.

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February 25, 2009, 02:47 PM
In my Savage 10FP .223 I would use 55 GR V-MAX and the molly versions as well and would average about 3/4 MOA.


February 25, 2009, 02:50 PM
Ruger 10/22 with cheapie Butler Creek bull barrel. It LOVES the crappy cheap Winchester 22s. It'll blow the staples out of a 25 yard target.
Funny thing is that it doesn't like the high end 22 ammo.

Can't get much better than an el cheapo gun that loves the lowest cost ammo.

February 25, 2009, 02:51 PM
.22-250, 1/2" with prvi partisan. 100 yds

February 25, 2009, 02:58 PM
i dont think ive seen it.

funny but the closest ive been to moa accuracy was with winchester white box 55fmj .223 in my bushmaster hbar. maybe a little better than 2moa.

sub moa 5 shot groups are fairly common with the same rifle with the following load.

22.4 g h322
hornady 55 fmjbt
lc or pmc brass trimmed to 1.755
o.a.l. 2.225

loaded on a loadmaster with lee pacesetter dies and a lee factory crimp die.

i think there are rifles that can regularly shoot moa or better with certain factory loads.

would you consider black hills custom ammo factory loads?

February 25, 2009, 03:20 PM
you know, i can't recall ever shooting a sub-moa group with factory gun/rifle.

the test targets on my KAC SR-25 and MK11 mod0 were both 5-round sub-MOA groups shot with factory ammo.

but i could never afford factory ammo and always handloaded.

February 25, 2009, 03:21 PM
I've got a Tikka T3 SS Lite in .270 that shoots sub MOA with Federal softpoints, Privi Sp's AND Remington CorLocks. Most measure ~.90" With handloads & SMK bullets I've seen sub .5MOA groups. If the spread starts to get larger than 1" at 100, I know it's me and not the rifle. It will string vertically if hot.

February 25, 2009, 03:24 PM
Federal Gold Metal Match 168gr, shoots one hole groups at 100yrds, out of my Savage 10FP. This is prone, off a bipod, no bags:)

February 25, 2009, 03:31 PM
My best 3 shot group ever was in my .308.

175gr Federal Premium Gold Match (It is factory Ammo).

Group measured .7285" Outside-Outside. (Or .4205" C-C)

Gun was factory except for the rail and scope.

I usually get 1.15-1.5" groups with decent factory ammo out of the gun. But I got a great group out of those three shots.

Here's a link to the gun I was using: CLICK (

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 25, 2009, 03:37 PM
Funderb, what rifle?

February 25, 2009, 03:39 PM
I get fairly consistant 1MoA or better with Hornady Light Magnum 140gr for 7mmx57 in my M70 Featherweight.

February 25, 2009, 03:52 PM
My MK14 SEI Crazy Horse Mod 0 shoots sub MOA groups with Portuguese surplus ball.

February 25, 2009, 04:01 PM
My savage 110 in 270 Win will shoot sub-MOA all day long with Hornady Custom 130 gr. Interlocks. The NEF Handi-rifle I just traded away would make right around 1 MOA with the same ammo.

February 25, 2009, 04:02 PM
Weatherby Vanguard VGL .223 Rem.
Winchester Super X 55gr PSP.
Winchester Super X 64gr PP.

I saw this little rifle on the wall of a local gun shop in Havelock NC back in 1995. It looked so slick with it's classic Weatherby styled green "Fibermark" stock. I bought it and gave it to my dad for fathers day that year. It will shoot under 1" with about any 55gr ammo (even some super hot Malayisian 55gr surplus FMJ I bought once that kept blowing the primers out...) but for some reason it really, really likes the above 2 Winchester factory loads averaging 1/2" and 5/8" 3 shot groups. It will shoot 5 shots well under an inch as well with that ammo but the barrel is tapered and very light weight so it heats up quickly, I've never shot any groups over 5 rounds with it.

I've got a bunch of stories about money I've won betting on the accuracy of this little rifle.

February 25, 2009, 04:34 PM
My Ruger M77 Mark II is a shooter. .270 Win
The dealer that sold it to me gave me a free box of Winchester Power Points 130gr. when I bought the gun. That was the only factory ammo that ever went through that rifle as I reload.
Before the box was empty I was able to achieve a three shot group of 1.1875", but again, that was the only factory ammo this rifle has ever tried.
My handloads are much more impressive.
HMR 4831 and Hornady SP slide inside 0.75" consistently.
From the looks of the groups, one shot tends to throw wide and the other two make one oblong hole. I think the wide shot might be my fault rather than the rifle and I suppose it would shoot a one hole group if locked in a vice.

February 25, 2009, 04:36 PM
I don't think i can shoot sub MOA with any of my rifles capable of it, but my POF likes hornady 75gr match and TAP FPD in the hands of a better shooter.

February 25, 2009, 04:46 PM
dr. tad-

Savage 12 series, one of the old ones without the accutrigger. 22-250 rem.

I bought it for my dad, and am trying hard to keep it his!

February 25, 2009, 07:22 PM
Win M70 .300WM with Win FailSafe 180gr. Near .5MOA

Savage 110 .243 with Fed Premium 100gr. Below .5MOA

Savage F/TR .308 with Fed Fusion 150gr. Right at 1MOA

Ruger M77 .30-06 with cheap Win 165gr spbt's. .75MOA

Savage 116 Classic .270 with Hornaday Light Mag 130gr. 1MOA

A couple of these rifles shoot sub .4MOA with reloads and the F/TR will shoot under .3MOA with the mods and reloads.


.38 Special
February 25, 2009, 07:31 PM
Considering the "tactical" AR-15 bashing I've done, people are sometimes surprised when I write about an Eagle Arms "Eagle Eye" rifle I used to have that shot well under half inch(!) 10 shot groups(!!!) with Black Hills ammo.

That was the most accurate factory rifle of any kind -- bolt guns included -- that I have ever owned, and I could never match the Black Hills ammo with my handloads, even with Berger benchrest bullets and benchrest loading techniques.

February 25, 2009, 08:53 PM
Remington 541-T. It shoots the Federal bulk bullets .5 MOA or less all day at 50 yards.

Funny that I almost did't get this rifle. I have a friend who is a rimfire nut. He told me just buy it and later you'll be happy.

BTW, the magazines on those were probably the worst ever invented.

February 25, 2009, 09:00 PM
Win. M70 Laredo (heavy, floated barrel model) in 300WM. Federal Premium w/ 200g Sierra BTSP. .9" 5 shots @ 100yds.

I've never shot factory match grade through it, my handloads do about 3/4 MOA.

February 25, 2009, 09:00 PM
I'll second that Savage FTR in .308, and raise you a Weatherby vanguard Sub-MOA Matte in 300 wby. I reload but have done sub moa with Premium Federal in both before I reloaded.

Wesson Smith
February 25, 2009, 09:28 PM
I'll never shoot any rifle that well, but with a bit younger pair of eyes,
and a little steadier trigger finger I believe that my Kimber 84M Longmaster
in .308 would be up to that task for me. I have it scoped with a Leupold
VX-III LR and I feed it Federal Gold Medal Sierra Match.

February 25, 2009, 09:48 PM
I get sub-MOA using Winchesters' now discontinued:banghead: Failsafe 140gn. in .270Win . . . out of my 1973 Remington 700LH (an early left handed, long action BDL variant).

My best 3-shot group at 100 yards was slightly under a half inch. I also shot a 150 yard group once the day before the opening of deer season with it smaller than 1/2 inch. Best of all, I was with some buddies from work . . . so I had braggin' rights. They couldn't believe it and frankly, neither could I.

Who says a .270 can't shoot tight groups!!!

I had a Leupold Vari-XIII 6.5-20 AO on it then, and zooming it in at 150 yards after the second shot freaked me out . . . for I feared the scope had totally lost it's zero after the first round. Then, the third shot only BARELY enlarged the one hole a little to the side. Sure enough, the second shot almost exactly went into the first hole!

I'm very sick Winchester discontinued my favorite factory round. I've NEVER been able to beat its performance with handloads and I'm not deep enough with spare ammo!!!:(

I took my biggest buck ever with this "over-penetrating" round in 1996 . . . a quartering away shot that ended up between the hide and the exiting shoulder. It fell to the ground when I caped it out! Damn I've loved my results with this round through the years!!!

Oh yeah, here's my early Remington 700 . . . now wearing a Burris Posi-Lock on a one-piece Leupold mount. The "character marks" on the stock are from years goin' up trees in the deep Georgia woods. A good, honest deer rifle indeed:

BTW, the hide beneath the rifle is from a piebald buck I took with my 6" S&W Model 29-5 a couple of years ago.

AHHHH . . . the memories. That's part of the fun of shooting sports ain't it!!!

Coal Dragger
February 25, 2009, 10:15 PM
Rifle: Steyr SSG 69 PII (.308 WIN)
Optic: Nightforce 3.5-15X50

Ammunition capable of consistent MOA to sub MOA accuracy:

Federal GM 168gr and 175gr match.
Black Hills 168gr and 175gr match.

The Federal is a little more consistent in my rifle and will produce consistent 3/4 to 1 MOA groups for five shots.

The Black Hills loads also shoot really well, but are not as consistent. Most 5 shot groups hover around .8-1.1 MOA, but every now and again I'll get a screamer odd ball group of 1/2 MOA or better.

If we want to talk about 3 shot groups any of the ammo I listed will easily stay in 3/4 to 1/2 MOA, which speaks poorly of my concentration....

FYI the 175gr loads shoot a little better than the 168gr loads where Match Kings are concerned. Another hand load I have developed with 168 Berger VLD's is better though. Last time I shot it I had one called flyer that opened up a 5 shot group to .91 inch center to center, with the other 4 going into a hole (.32 ctc).

February 26, 2009, 12:01 AM
Ruger 77 in .243, shooting Winchester Super-X 100 grain power points. Rifle shoots 5 shot groups at 100 yards that a quarter will cover, center to center.

February 26, 2009, 02:46 AM
Rifle: Les baer super varmint .204
ammo: hornaday factory 32G .5 moa or less
Hornaday 40g .75 moa
Rifle: Ruger M77 all weather 300 wm loves 180 remy corlocks shoots right around 1 moa.
Weatherby acumark 338-378 with weatherby factory 250 partition shoots 1moa for 3 shots but opens up fast when it gets warm.

February 26, 2009, 02:59 AM
I like small caliber rifles but have always had to tinker with them or handload to get true sub MOA. Almost unbelieveable to me the only rifle ammo combo that I ever had that delivered sub MOA was a box stock Ruger 77 in 300 win mag and red box 180 gr Federal ammo.

I bought the rifle when I lived in Alaska and picked up 4 boxes of the cheapest ammo the store had for initial sight in and for brass. Right out of the box I shot a 3 shot 3/4" 100 yard group. The groups opened up to about 1 " when measuring 5 shots.

I marred up the stock on that gun hunting on a costal Island and sold it....I still kick myself in the ass for that.

Beetle Bailey
February 26, 2009, 03:53 AM
3/4 MOA with Black Hills 52 grain match ammo in my .223 rem Savage 10FP.

Kentucky Windage
February 26, 2009, 04:30 AM
Dr. Tad - I don't have the time or inclination anymore to reload, and I shoot ONLY factory ammo these days. Virtually ALL of my rifles shoot sub-moa with factory ammo -- because I won't own a rifle that won't -- and because I took the time to do extensive testing to find a load that each rifle likes. Some examples in terms of calibers, loads and best 3-shot groups: 22-250, Fed V-Shock 55-grain Ballistic Tip, 0.28 in.; 257 Wby Mag, Wby 120 grain Nosler Partition, 0.73 in.; 270 Win, Win Power Point 130 grain, 0.69 in.; 308 Win, Fed Fusion 165-grain, 0.68 in.; 300 WSM, Winchester XP3 150 grain, 0.75 in.; 338 Fed, Fed TSX 185 grain, 0.46 in. These are just a few examples. I don't believe there's any shortage of sub-moa rifles or factory ammo. You just have to put in the effort and time to find the optimum load for each rifle. I'm fortunate in that I have certain relationships with most of the ammo makers, otherwise this could get expensive. With my newest .308 (Kimber Montana), for example, I had to test eight factory loads before I found one that would shoot sub-moa consistently. Some brands/weights would barely group within 3 inches. Other rifles, like my 22-250, are inherently accurate. I've only tested three factory loads in that particular gun because ALL THREE shoot sub-moa consistently.

February 26, 2009, 06:50 AM
Remington 700 ADL synthetic in .308 with a Millet TRS-1 for optics and Remington Premier 168gr BTHP Match rounds. I average around 0.66MOA but there was one time I got it to shoot as good as 0.4.

Lloyd Smale
February 26, 2009, 07:38 AM
some of the black hills stuff shoots under an inch out of my ars.

February 26, 2009, 07:59 AM
a fluke group or two under an inch sure

real sub MOA averages for multiple groups NO

similar topics are why I started this thread

February 26, 2009, 10:38 AM
My Savege 10 in .223 will shoot 5 shot groups that I can cover with a quarter. I've done it with a few different ammo types that were out of the box @ Wal Mart.

The Savage even out shot my CZ 527 varmint in .223 which has a superior trigger compared to the Savage. I suspect the CZ doesn't like the bulk ammo and it has a faster twist rate than the savage as well so it might like the lighter loads in it.

February 26, 2009, 10:45 AM
weatherby super varmintmaster with umc 22-250 45 grain bullets,consistant under 1moa,& hk sl8-1 with 75 grain hornady hangs in around the moa mark,had one group of under 1/2,could never do it again.....

Andrew Wyatt
February 26, 2009, 12:18 PM
Remington 700 VLS with Remington 700 LTR barrel.

Remington core lokt 150 grain. .25 at 100

winchester silvertip 150 grain. .25 at 100, 1.5 at 425.

remington 150 grain ball. .75 at 100

February 26, 2009, 01:01 PM
Mossberg ATR-100 .30-06
Federal 168-Gr "Gold Medal Match"
5 shots, 0.69" @ 100Yds

{My rifle, but NOT my hands holding it...was being shot by a retired Marine}

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