Now, help us win the Revolution........


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Abominable No-Man
October 4, 2003, 10:43 AM
Okay, we had the WWII thread. But, what if you could do the same thing, only going back to the American Revolution, what would you do there?

My suggestions for the categories:

Small Arms, Artillery, Support Weapons, Commo, Medical & Sanitation, Clothing & TA-50, Optics, and Strategies

You don't need to answer all of them, and try to keep it short.

Also, phrase your answers in the form of a question.......:D

ANM

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TrapperReady
October 4, 2003, 11:11 AM
How about a single platoon of M1-A1's?

Not much that could stop them. Formations of massed infantry would merely turn into tread lube. Paint 'em green with big eye-balls and the Brits would think they were being attacked by dragons.

Strategy?

Hey-diddle-diddle. Straight up the middle.

Artillery and Support Weapons?

MLRS would do nicely.

The tough part would be ensuring enough survivors to tell the gruesome tales to other units.

telewinz
October 4, 2003, 11:24 AM
Claymore anti-personnel mine. Against the parade formations of the British lines, even our militia would have WON.:what: Low tech, reliable.

mainmech48
October 4, 2003, 12:49 PM
Canister rounds for that smoothbore artillery. It would've been as devastating on massed infantry formations as it was eighty-odd years later in the War Between the States.

More rifles (as opposed to muskets) and proper tactical doctrine to take the best advantage of their greater effective range, too. Adopting the then-conventional mass-formation/volley-and-bayonette charge tactics against the Brit professionals might've been "civilized", but it wasn't smart.

Imagine what a few companies of riflemen armed with Ferguson-style breech loaders (if we'd had the ability to manufacture them) could've done to a regiment of Hessian mercenaries before they ever got close enough to use ol' Brown Bess, especially if there were people reloading and passing them forward to the marksmen.

Keith
October 4, 2003, 01:37 PM
We could just pass a law that only American citizens could possess guns. The British would have to turn theirs in.

Keith

Moparmike
October 4, 2003, 03:09 PM
Train a division of snipers with the Rem 710's you brought back with ammo. Do that in every state.

I also second the Claymores. Absolutely devastaing. They would think they were going up agains[t] the finger of God.

Edited to add the "t".

Kaylee
October 4, 2003, 03:33 PM
With the WWII question, we were dealing with a culture that still thought strategically/tactically much as we do today. I'm not certain the officers on the field could adapt successfully to technology 200 years past their time. (for that matter -- could we?)

I tend to think at least for the line infantry types, the best solution would be the weapon designed at the very end of the "stand in formation and volley fire" period -- a Mauser 98 or contemporary, take your pick. It can be effectively employed the same way they're all used to thinking of employing longarms. Which isn't to say that AK's wouldn't work wonders standing 50 meters from the Redcoats, but when Cornwallis has to march his army across half a mile of open field ... those ol' sights start looking pretty good.

Wanderer
October 4, 2003, 03:51 PM
5 Remington 700BDL .308-trained snipers for every 100 regulars.

4v50 Gary
October 4, 2003, 04:01 PM
If you had to bring back just one weapon, why not the M203 (M-16 with a 40 mm grenade launcher)?

You have the .223 which with you may render hors de' combat to your foeman. With the 40 mm you can literallly "blow back" any charge of Tarleton and his Green Dragoons (green meanies). The High Explosive allows you can take out artillery crews, large troop concentrations, shell the parapet of any fortified area and in narrow waters, you can challenge the Royal Navy. With a 1:7" twist bbl and the SS109, you can do 600 yard shots - something the old Longrifle would be hard pressed to do (but could in the hands of an Olympic quality shooter - pick up the Nov. '03 edition of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association magazine, Muzzle Blasts if you would to read a very short article on it).

If you could bring back artillery, why a 120 mm mortar instead of a 105 mm recoiless rifle?

Well, the 105 works great against troop concentrations, cavalry charges, opening town doors. However, it doesn't have indirect fire capability. Someone behind a thick dirt parapet is relatively safe until you've poured enough rounds through to penetrate. A well placed 120 mm mortar round doesn't have that problem. Bloop & boom! As for city doors and barricades (chevaux de frise), you've got the M203.

How does one transport it? A nuclear power submarine. No need to refuel, right? Don't need ICBMs on it so now you have a huge weapons bay or magazine. Being able to "pop" up anywhere along the coast, wipe out a garrison (OK, take them prisoners, disarm and parole them according to the practice of the time) and then vanish without a trace (no sonar or satellite tracking of subs) will bewilder and frighten the enemy. OK, the sub should have some weapons. Tube launched tomahawk to take out fortresses.

BTW, why stop at independence? Overthrow George III and introduce an English Second Amendment addedum to the Magna Carta. :D

BTW II: Gang, please don't start a thread on "Help us win the Civil War." It was American against American and in that sense, no side won. Thankfully the 1880-1930s was a period of reconciliation and it was one country that whupped (the poor) Spaniards and then the Germans (twice).

Abominable No-Man
October 4, 2003, 05:25 PM
I think you mean the M203.(M16 with grenade launcher.....)

The M249 is the SAW(5.56mm belt/magazine-fed Squad Automatic Weapon)

ANM

Dave Markowitz
October 4, 2003, 06:29 PM
If this was possible, all you'd need would be one M1917 Browning.

Imagine you're at Bunker Hill*. Now imagine you are armed with said Browning and a good supply of ammo. How long do you think the battle would've lasted? As soon as the British troops started forming up, you hose them down from a few hundred yards. No way they would've been able to reach your position.

Rinse and repeat as necessary.




*I know, it really happened at Breed's Hill.

Dionysusigma
October 4, 2003, 09:59 PM
Keep it simple--introduce either the whole cartridge ammunition concept, or take back a couple o' bolt-action black powder rifles. Introduce the Mini-ball concept, or even percussion caps. Rifling.











And C-4:evil:

WvaBill
October 4, 2003, 10:05 PM
One Ma deuce--Great standoff weapon in 18th cent

Detritus
October 5, 2003, 08:51 PM
keeping it at the "they could make more if need be" level, victorian era Rifle muskets and all proper accutrements (minie ball ammo, paper cartidge ammo, etc) for ALL troops. and a set of properly notated plans for production machinery, esp the rifling machine.

beyound that something like either the Trapdoor springfield, or a .577 Snider, but either way use the british pattern of ammo, copper cases SUCK (though with brit pattern ammo the trapdoor needs a bigger[wider] extractor/ejector, so as not to rip case heads off).

of course some form of arty would be nice, with capability for effective canister or behive type rounds for up close use, and some sort of "cluster-munition" for raining down into the rear areas to masscre the massed "reserves" and more importantly all those damned "gentleman officers" (aka clueless, uncaring, fops who thought it was "a game for the gentry" ) nothing like chopping the head off an army, esp one that does NOT as a rule promote men from the "other ranks" to officer level, and even THEN rarely above Lt.

Wanderer
October 6, 2003, 06:48 AM
I take my answer back.

Air support. :evil:

Brian Williams
October 6, 2003, 08:01 AM
I would take a percussion cap Hawken/Jaeger style rifle. The Short heavier barrel of the Hawken would be easier to rifle, making machining easier and the short barrel was quick to load. Many times the volleys of green troops in the British army went high and over the heads of the enemy because of the lag time from flash in the pan thru ignition of the main powder charge and until the ball left the barrel. With a short barrel like the Hawken the lag time is much shorter thus more shots on target with less training.
Even a Flint Hawken would be very quick. The hook breech of a Hawken makes it very easy to clean and maintain.

Mike Irwin
October 6, 2003, 11:12 AM
1 GE Minigun.

That's all you'd need.

CZ-100
October 6, 2003, 11:39 AM
We could just pass a law that only American citizens could possess guns. The British would have to turn theirs in.



:what: :what: :what:

Nice

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