NRAwol


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Eustachius234
February 26, 2009, 05:37 AM
I just became a GOA Lifer because of Ron Paul's endorsement, and when searching the web for stuff on other RKBA organizations, I came accross NRAwol - http://www.nrawol.net/.

Anyways they make the assetion that the NRA "is given orders by politicians, which the NRA must then sell to its members." I haven't studied their site, but would like to know whether y'all agree or disagree with their assertion?

Thanks.

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ZombiesAhead
February 26, 2009, 06:30 AM
The NRA, like many other powerful lobbying groups and even our beloved 2 political parties (the center-left and the center-right) may be a necessary evil.

They are too moderate for many of us but their compromises do create a "big tent" of hunters, constitutionally-minded people, enthusiasts of all types, and the manufacturers and lobbyists who have their hands in the pockets of the Washington establishment on both sides of the aisle.

wrc376
February 26, 2009, 06:49 AM
sorry

wrc376
February 26, 2009, 06:50 AM
what is the GOA?

wrc376
February 26, 2009, 06:50 AM
what is the GOA?

rogertc1
February 26, 2009, 07:04 AM
All the gun owners who voted for Obama sold us out. Not the NRA.

sernv99
February 26, 2009, 07:07 AM
"They are too moderate for many of us.."

they are waking up and getting with the program, morphing into the mainstream, not just catering just to the die hard "we should all be allowed unrestricted access to any sorts of arms and munitions without federal regulations" types that abound on here. Times change and although I own, shoot and like to buy all sorts of guns, including class 3 stuff, I'm also realistic as well and adjust my opinions to reflect the realities. It's called compromise. And I think they compromised on a lot of things in order to be more mainstream and garner more followers and keep gov't on a leash with respect to gun-control legislation. The NRA would be 6 feet deep in the ground if they only catered to the die hard pro-gun advocates, I don't think they would be as big of an organization today and perhaps be rendered a useless organization if they didn't compromise on some things.

to go off tanget a bit, I blame Hollywood and the music industry for shaping American society today, putting the blame on them for "advocating" and glorifying in a direct and indirect way, violence, especially among youth. And the NRA is the "little man" with regard to political power compared and how Hollywood and the media industry have sway over politicians and manipulating public poerceptions about guns. As of right now, guns get blamed for the violence, not the rap artists making albums about shooting up people and slanging dope on the corner, talking about slapping around women and shooting at the cops. Only in the last few years, have I seen some politicians hold music artists accountable for their actions (e.g. Al Sharpton criticizing rappers) but there are a lot more politicians who still blame guns for the voilence, thus the NRA fights an uphill battle that I don't think it can win. Hence, why they compromised on a lot of things in order to face reality.

JohnKSa
February 26, 2009, 07:12 AM
Anyways they make the assetion... I haven't studied their site, ...whether y'all agree or disagree with their assertion?Yeah...

So ask yourself why NAGR & RMGO feel like they have to create an quasi-anonymous "front" website in order to get their point across.

It's pretty bad when the actions of an organization make it clear that the leadership realizes that it is so marginalized that it must strive for credibility through anonymity.

MaterDei
February 26, 2009, 07:25 AM
Congrats on joining the GOA. I, too, like their no compromises stance on the issues. However, if you want to be a member of the 800 pound RKBA gorilla you need to join the NRA too. The NRA, warts and all, is our best advocate in congress.

Bailey Guns
February 26, 2009, 11:10 AM
I, too, wish the NRA could be a no compromise, stop every attempt at further 2A restrictions, beat down the anti-gun politicians every time they open their mouths type of organization. But outside of my fantasy world (and everyone else's, for that matter) the real world is not like that.

Personally, I believe every gun owner should belong to as many pro-gun organizations as their means will allow.

Bickering about "the NRA is a sell-out" while the "GOA is all that and a bag o' chips" (or vice-versa) is nonsense and will accomplish nothing productive. The simple fact is the NRA may not be everything we want it to be all the time. But without the NRA, as gun owners, we'd be a lot worse off in terms of our rights.

Regardless of how you feel about the NRA, when an organization that represents 4 million-ish members speaks, anti-gunners in Washington still hear the noise, if nothing else.

All the gun owners who voted for Obama sold us out. Not the NRA.

That's a whole lot closer to the truth, in my opinion.

Bailey Guns
February 26, 2009, 11:13 AM
So ask yourself why NAGR & RMGO feel like they have to create an quasi-anonymous "front" website in order to get their point across.

Oooo, oooo, I know, I know. Pick me!

For the same reason anti-gun organizations have to hide behind benign-sounding agendas like "safety" and "common sense".

cat9x
February 26, 2009, 11:15 AM
All the gun owners who voted for Obama sold us out. Not the NRA.

+1 on that

armslist
February 26, 2009, 11:17 AM
I am a little bit torn on the NRA's weak stance on important issues sometimes, but they are mostly on-point, and larger and more effective than other groups.

If they stray further, I may have to consider no longer supporting them. As it stands now, I'm not there yet.

ArmedBear
February 26, 2009, 11:22 AM
There are a few groups whose platforms are pretty cool-sounding.

GOA and the Libertarian Party are probably the top two.

They have something in common:

They have ZERO real-world political savvy, ZERO political clout, ZERO political accomplishments to their names.

Politics is the art of the possible.

The NRA, like any group of human beings, may not always be perfect in every way I'd want. However, the NRA is trying to do the possible, and it has succeeded. Don't confuse your frustration with our political system (felt by damn near every American except the real insiders) with legitimate anger at an organization that can only work within that system.

Anyone can be a blowhard. Anyone can start an organization like GOA.

Not just anyone can accomplish something in DC. That takes certain mindsets, connections and skils.

MaterDei
February 26, 2009, 12:08 PM
Well said, ArmedBear.

TexasRifleman
February 26, 2009, 12:14 PM
Gee, a GOA vs NRA thread... haven't seen one of those in a while.

This is why we will lose.

MaterDei
February 26, 2009, 12:17 PM
This is why we will lose.

Come on, Texas. Did somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning??? :)

Variety is the spice of life! NRA, GOA, SFA, TSRA, ...

They are all good!

TexasRifleman
February 26, 2009, 12:19 PM
Variety is the spice of life! NRA, GOA, SFA, TSRA, ...

They are all good!

They are not good when they spend time and energy bickering back and forth, as in this thread.

They are only good when they focus on the common enemy instead of each other.

jerkface11
February 26, 2009, 01:10 PM
It's called compromise.

Odd how "compromise" always ends with our side giving something up and the other side getting what they want. Sounds more like bending over.

ArmedBear
February 26, 2009, 01:16 PM
jerkface, if you're over 5 years old, you've seen some pretty significant changes in Federal, State and local gun laws, most of them in our favor -- and most of them the result of political compromises.

CCW law has been full of compromises. In sereral states where CCW has gone from illegal to legal except in bars, for example. Now you might complain that the government shouldn't be able to restrict a right in this way -- but the reality is, CCW law has gone in our favor, even if it's not always 100% what we want it to look like.

Clearly, you're not paying any attention to what has really been going on.

jerkface11
February 26, 2009, 01:20 PM
I was referring to a post earlier in the thread not the NRA.

DocBoCook
February 26, 2009, 01:29 PM
I haven't given money to any yet. But Molon Labe and Havamal St. 38 are my battle cry. When I find one that believes what I believe, they can have my support

Duke of Doubt
February 26, 2009, 01:29 PM
Bear, the Libertarian Party, as you may know, was very different from circa 1984 to circa 2000. Many registered Liibertarians were elected to state and local (and even national) office. Libertarian political and philosophical ideas influenced the Republicans AND the Democrats. Libertarian ideas were on the upswing in the 1990s. But then, right-wing Libertarians like myself went Republican in 2000, on the strength of the Republican Congress's accomplishments, the stark choice between Bush and Gore, and the closeness of the election. This left the Libertarian Party in the hands of its left wing (much atrophied since the 1970s and Murray Rothbard), the nutcases, the leather freaks, the druggies, and the Trekkies. The old Libertarian right wing couldn't come home to THAT. So we stayed with the Republicans, even though we disapproved of some of their big government programs. Meanwhile the Libertarian Party went even MORE loony. It's too bad the Libertarian Party was wrecked over the last decade in our absence, but it was. Its gains from the 1980s and 1990s are pretty much gone.

NRA lost my support when they tried repeatedly, and with vicious and under-handed litigation tactics, to scuttle Heller out of jealousy and arrogance ("WE'LL say when the time is right!"). But GOA is a marginal organization, whos only achievement has been to line the pockets of its owner (whose name I will not mention but who is well known in the firearms community).

freakshow10mm
February 26, 2009, 01:37 PM
The NRA protects the Second Amendment for hunters, not everyone.

ArmedBear
February 26, 2009, 01:45 PM
the Libertarian Party, as you may know, was very different from circa 1984 to circa 2000

...during which time many libertarian ideas had a lot of traction in Washington and around the US in the guise of Reaganism.

And working against this trend by splitting off libertarians into a powerless third party, at the time when they could have had more influence in one of the Big 2, was surely a good idea.:rolleyes:

I say this as a former member, BTW. Just one with more years under my belt.

tuckerdog1
February 26, 2009, 03:13 PM
I don't even agree with myself all the time:D So no chance ANY organization is gonna make me happy all the time.

The NRA may not be the perfect 900 pound gorilla. But they're our 900 pound gorilla.

Tuckerdog1

mountainpharm
February 26, 2009, 04:07 PM
Congrats on joining the GOA. I, too, like their no compromises stance on the issues. However, if you want to be a member of the 800 pound RKBA gorilla you need to join the NRA too. The NRA, warts and all, is our best advocate in congress.

+1.

I joined both -- seemed like a logical compromise to me.

JohnKSa
February 27, 2009, 02:59 AM
The NRA protects the Second Amendment for hunters, not everyone.You mean hunters like Dick Heller? Or do you mean that the NRA's support of shall-issue concealed carry laws is because only hunters want to carry concealed handguns? :rolleyes:

But whatever, let's say you're actually right and that's really all that the NRA does.

Frankly I think my money would be better spent protecting the second amendment rights of hunters than paying for websites to run down other gun owner associations.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 27, 2009, 11:29 AM
NOT mutually exclusive.

I'm a life member of both NRA & GOA. Each does many things I like and a few things I don't.

More is better. You attack the enemy from all possible fronts and flanks.

You are not seeing the true big picture if you use a slip up by these organizations to justify doing NOTHING with your $$ to support the RKBA.

TimRB
February 27, 2009, 11:38 AM
Just because it bears repeating:

"You are not seeing the true big picture if you use a slip up by these organizations to justify doing NOTHING with your $$ to support the RKBA."

Please, please join the NRA. If this is all you ever do to support the RKBA, it will be more than the vast majority of gun owners in this country ever do.

I know many here don't like the NRA for various reasons, but the fact remains that they represent the single biggest voting block of gun owners in the country. Membership numbers are huge when a lobbyist walks into a politician's office.

Tim

Duke of Doubt
February 27, 2009, 11:54 AM
TimRB: "but the fact remains that they represent the single biggest voting block of gun owners in the country."

Possibly. I personally represent the single biggest voting block of disturbed time travelers in the country. So what?

rtroha
February 27, 2009, 12:21 PM
The NRA protects the Second Amendment for hunters, not everyone.

Like the recent lawsuit the NRA won against the San Francisco Housing Authority? I didn't realize public housing was filled with hunters.

TimRB
February 27, 2009, 12:25 PM
"I personally represent the single biggest voting block of disturbed time travelers in the country. So what?"

"So what?" would be my response to that statement, too.

Tim

TexasRifleman
February 27, 2009, 12:41 PM
The NRA protects the Second Amendment for hunters, not everyone.

You cut and pasted that from the GOA website didn't you :)

GOA, NRA, join them both and insist that they both stop bickering with each other. We have a common enemy.

X-Rap
February 27, 2009, 12:42 PM
How many GOA members? NRA?
These 2 groups members are not the problem. The millions of gun owners who ride for free on the coat tails are the problem. They are the ones who are enlightened and don't believe in single issue voting.
They think that nobody will ever come for their gun. Put 40 million or more members in either org. and see what happens.

theotherwaldo
February 27, 2009, 01:00 PM
Of course the NRA is imperfect.

Of course it has been infiltrated by its opponents. If an organization of that type isn't being infiltrated, that organization is doing nothing important.

Still, in my estimation, the NRA is the only organization of its type that is actually out there and doing its professed duty.

I may join other groups as well, but the NRA is the group that has the credibility and the power to actually get things done at the state and federal level.

lonegunman
February 27, 2009, 02:02 PM
Anyone who voted for Obama sold out gunowners, not the NRA. If you voted for socialism you sold out your rights for a check and you should move to England.


The NRA cannot save the unwilling anymore than AA can save drunks who refuse help.

Supported the socialist controlled welfare state is the best way to insure you have very few rights and no guns at all.

CoRoMo
February 27, 2009, 02:50 PM
Their doing a fine job with what little influence they have, and they're all we got.

SaxonPig
February 27, 2009, 06:34 PM
People expect too much from the NRA. I have heard folks blame the NRA for gun laws being enacted. The NRA is a lobby group and doesn't make laws nor can it stop laws. It can only inform lawmakers and try to sway them.

IndianaBoy
February 27, 2009, 06:41 PM
It's called compromise.

Odd how "compromise" always ends with our side giving something up and the other side getting what they want. Sounds more like bending over.

This.

IndianaBoy
February 27, 2009, 06:42 PM
That is not a dig from me at the NRA. I am a member and they do good work.

Gun owners will compromise ourselves to single shots stored at the gun range the way some of us think, act and vote.

Eightball
February 27, 2009, 08:30 PM
It's what we've got, even though, at times, Wayne LaPierre seems more than willing to toss us under the bus on AW things occasionally (from some of his remarks).

JImbothefiveth
February 27, 2009, 08:39 PM
The site contains links to places that say the NRA pushed for gun control, but then the article fails to mention how they pushed for gun control. For instance, it sad the NRA supported a D.C. type ban for the state of Wisconsin. It then has a photo of a website about lobbying organizations saying they support it, not the official NRA website, bu that of a group designed to keep track of lobbyists. The NRA later spoke against the ban in a hearing.

Bailey Guns
February 27, 2009, 09:13 PM
Possibly. I personally represent the single biggest voting block of disturbed time travelers in the country. So what?

This gets my vote for the most irrelevant comment in this thread.

I have an idea. How about we all just quit supporting any pro-gun organizations. After all...they're either sellouts, have hidden anti-2A agendas, don't compromise enough, compromise too much, are just in it for the money, or whatever. Somebody's always gonna have a piss-poor excuse for not pulling their weight. Personally, I'm sick and tired of that sort of person.

Yep...we're definitely our own worst enemy. I can't believe some of the things I'm reading here. Amazing.

I sometimes start to develop the attitude of, "Screw the rest of you guys. I have way more than what I need in terms of guns and ammo, and almost everything I want. The rest of you who want a free ride can kiss my a** because I'm done fighting the battles for you."

But then I think, in many important things in life, there are lots of good people who do the real fighting for the cause. Many just ride on the coat-tails of the warriors and enjoy the fruits of the labor of the guys in the trenches. I have no tolerance nor respect for you. Congratulations on letting your pissing and moaning drag a bunch of other people down with you.

Bailey Guns
February 27, 2009, 09:18 PM
Forgot to mention in my rant... I guess I should be encouraged by the poll numbers in this thread. Seems only about 10% of the voters share the opinion that the NRA isn't doing it's job. That's only about 9.99% more than it should be.

I guess that's good news.

gripper
February 27, 2009, 09:20 PM
I consider them too moderate...that said;they DO defened the 2nd Ammendment...I just wish they would take the gloves off more .GOA, and the JPFO are a little more hardcore;the NRA is targeting the "reasonable" niche.
They do a good job;my own preference is not to "play nice"with domestic enemies.

Duke of Doubt
February 27, 2009, 11:28 PM
George Bailey: "But then I think, in many important things in life, there are lots of good people who do the real fighting for the cause. Many just ride on the coat-tails of the warriors and enjoy the fruits of the labor of the guys in the trenches. I have no tolerance nor respect for you. Congratulations on letting your pissing and moaning drag a bunch of other people down with you."

Glad to hear you are on the ramparts, fighting the good fight. Tell us about it, son.

MatthewVanitas
February 27, 2009, 11:38 PM
They are the ones who are enlightened and don't believe in single issue voting.

Single-issue voting does our side no favors either.

If I vote for Senator Bob because he's pro-gun, and otherwise a horrendous representative, and he gets replaced by Senator Jim who's anti-gun but otherwise a pretty good rep, isn't part of the problem Senator Bob's backers who let an idiot get into power based on his gun vote, and then lost the entire seat in the backlash?


Letting this remain a Culture War issue is a terrible idea. If we tell Dems "no matter what you do for gun rights I'm voting Republican because... well, you know" then the Dems have absolutely zero reason to ever cater to us. Telling a whole party "you've lost my vote for good" is basically trashing any incentive for them to work with you.

JImbothefiveth
February 27, 2009, 11:41 PM
Well, the alternative would be what? Having 2 terms of an anti-gun senator, instead of one?

I'm actually not a single issue voter, but that is faulty thinking.

Bailey Guns
February 27, 2009, 11:44 PM
Glad to hear you are on the ramparts, fighting the good fight. Tell us about it, son.

No thanks, pops. I doubt any mere mortal could measure up to your standards.

X-Rap
February 27, 2009, 11:48 PM
There may be exceptions but in my memory the Reps I have had in congress both state and federal have mostly done a fair job when they have supported my single issue, on the other hand when they haven't I feel they have done a poor job. I'd be a little embarassed if I was from Idaho and Wide Stance Larry was my Senator.

JImbothefiveth
February 28, 2009, 12:11 AM
And at least the NRA isn't out to get me, like the GOA, gubmint, and establishment. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5378878#post5378878 :neener:

akodo
February 28, 2009, 12:54 AM
NRA can be 'weak sauce'

however, any group that stands up and said "Don't vote for Obama, he wants to bring back the AWB" was right on target.

That's what the NRA said. Many didn't listen.

crazy-mp
February 28, 2009, 02:15 AM
GOA, NRA, join them both and insist that they both stop bickering with each other. We have a common enemy.

Nancy Pelosi?


This entire thread makes me want to take a baseball bat to my computer. A gun organization that fights for your rights (at least some) is still better than nobody fighting for any of your rights.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

cliffy
February 28, 2009, 02:35 AM
Supporting the NRA appears our best choice. Donate as your heart dictates and your pocketbook allows. cliffy

Duke of Doubt
February 28, 2009, 04:09 PM
Bailey: "No thanks, pops. I doubt any mere mortal could measure up to your standards."

Probably not, but you could at least TRY. ;)

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