Fire Mission: Kroger Grocery, anti gun AND racist


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TexasRifleman
February 26, 2009, 10:50 AM
Kroger is sponsoring a gun buy back in Dallas. That's bad enough, but they have specifically targeted hispanic and black audiences for this through co-sponsorship with Univision television and a local hip-hop radio station.

Gun control has always been racist, that's nothing new, but this pretty insulting in my opinion.

Please let Kroger know that your business with them is finished. If you are black or hispanic you should be especially outraged that they are targeting these communities specifically.

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/02/have-gun-will-receive-gift-car.html

Contact info for Kroger:

1-866-221-4141

1014 Vine Street
Cincinnati, Ohio 45202-1100


I am looking for more detailed contact info now, I'll post it when I get it.


Other sponsors of this event are:

KBFB-FM 97.9 "The Beat," and KSOC-FM 94.5, One-Dallas, Univision 23, Schepps Dairy and Better Dallas Safer Dallas.

Schepps Dairy
3114 S Haskell Ave, Dallas, TX 75223
Ph: (214) 824-8163

The Beat Radio:
thebeat@979thebeat.com
(972) 331.5400

Univision 23
This website is all spanish so I am still looking for contact info, I can't read spanish.

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gallo
February 28, 2009, 01:35 AM
They are only offering a $50 gift card for an operational gun. I'm not sure how many people are willing to do this trade. I may just go by reunion arena and offer $50 cash to any who wants to trade.

I'll drop a note in the customer feedback box of my local kroger.

Burl
February 28, 2009, 01:41 AM
Good catch....that's enough for me to switch to Albertsons. I also had the thought that maybe I should go to the parking lot and see what I can get for $50.

Burl
February 28, 2009, 01:56 AM
Go on-line and register a complaint at http://www.kroger.com/help/Pages/contact_us.aspx

TAB
February 28, 2009, 02:02 AM
Heaven forbid a company stand up for something they beleave in... Don't like it, vote with your wallet.


PS, thats not being racist... It just happends that the people that are most likly to be crimals are in that area are black and hispanic. Once again, heaven forbid you not target the demographic you want to reach...

lamebums
February 28, 2009, 02:59 AM
I'm waiting for the day Kroger's tries this in Northern Kentucky (right across the river from Cincinnati, 5 minutes from downtown.)

I'll be standing outside with envelopes with $65 cash each, in hand, ready to buy anything I consider worth my while.

With regards to Kroger's, I don't shop much there because of their union (I've had a bad run-in with the UFCW) unless I can't justify the extra time and gas to drive to Wal-Mart.

4thPointOfContact
February 28, 2009, 03:21 AM
Must be a local thing. Kroger is a Corporate Sponsor for GeorgiaPacking.Org.

MudPuppy
February 28, 2009, 03:28 AM
Heaven forbid a company stand up for something they beleave in... Don't like it, vote with your wallet.

I think that's sort of the point, along with actually letting them know that we are voting with our wallet and spreading to word to prevent future political activism that we believe directly impact our rights.

I may be misunderstanding your intentions and purpose of that post, but i get the impression you'd think we're out of line for alerting our fellow gun owners and organizing to voice our concern? I guess when politicians vote antigun we should just hush up and only vote about it quietly in the polling booth too?

Can't win I guess, either we dont get involved and we're lazy and get want we deserve or we try and organize to let the masses know they're out of line and our own tell us to hush and just shop somewhere else as the antigun activism grows. I don't get it...

Hush
February 28, 2009, 04:21 AM
$66, $66, Do I hear $66? Going once, going twice? Sold to the gentleman in the do-rag with the tec-9. You gotta love the buybacks in my neck of the woods...Boston. I swear Yankees show up with Blunderbuss from their mantle and get $50 bucks. Target was the sponsor here, and yes there was a fair share of muskets turned in. I kid you not. I remember working at the local PD as a teen and when some poor sap had his guns confiscated as a result of a 209a (restraining order) the gun expert Sgt would walk down the line saying, "mine, mine, mine" He was a great guy a and a true connesouir.....the winchesters would get returned and the Parkers would dissapear....lost during processing.

DHJenkins
February 28, 2009, 08:18 AM
So it would be OK if they advertised on the local light-FM station as well?

If they want to pay $50 a piece to get a bunch of illegal guns off the street, good.

It's not like any legal gun owners are being forced to take part.

jasper275
February 28, 2009, 09:40 AM
It really frustrates me with these inane posts right out of the anti-gunner handbook. Are some of you moles?
__________________
DJJenkins: So it would be OK if they advertised on the local light-FM station as well?

If they want to pay $50 a piece to get a bunch of illegal guns off the street, good.

It's not like any legal gun owners are being forced to take part.
__________________

Current definition of racist is any time there is a statistical anomaly or action that shows racial difference. Targeting a hip-hop station is racist.

The $50 won't buy illegal guns, but heirlooms that will probably be misappropriated or destroyed.

No one forced to participate, but it's known that a vulnerable segment of the population (usually elderly) will be tricked into parting with valuable guns for $50. :banghead:

DocBoCook
February 28, 2009, 09:46 AM
I wrote them on their site. Told them to stick to groceries and leave social policy alone.

Schutzen
February 28, 2009, 09:48 AM
I agree with 4thPointOfContact, this is probably a local or regional manager's "great idea". My local Kroger has been very supportive of 4-H Shooting Sports.

DocBoCook
February 28, 2009, 09:55 AM
Schutzen, that's why I put the stores ZIP code on there, so they would know which store I was talking about

TexasRifleman
February 28, 2009, 10:01 AM
Heaven forbid a company stand up for something they beleave in... Don't like it, vote with your wallet.


What exactly do you think the purpose of contacting them is?

They can stand up for what they believe in, and so can we.

Why does this confuse you?

So it would be OK if they advertised on the local light-FM station as well?

If they want to pay $50 a piece to get a bunch of illegal guns off the street, good.

It's not like any legal gun owners are being forced to take part.

You need to read up on how gun buy backs work, how successful they have been in the past, and what types of guns show up here.

You're pretty much 100% wrong. These things almost never turn up illegal guns. People are not going to take an illegal gun to the police. Shockingly enough, that's a crime.
This gun buy back offers no "amnesty".

People trading in their guns must present identification, city officials say.

If you own a stolen gun would YOU turn it into the police with a copy of your ID?

Of course not .

So, tell me again how this is going to get illegal guns off the street?

All these gun buybacks do is disarm low income and low education people in areas where they need to be able to protect themselves.

Specifically trying to disarm Blacks and Hispanics is racist, as most gun control measures have historically been.

fd62
February 28, 2009, 10:28 AM
I've been sitting here thinking about what a few of you said, sitting in the parking lot with money before they sell them back. I know it would vary state to state, but in general this wouldn't be considered illegal would it? :evil:

TexasRifleman
February 28, 2009, 10:32 AM
I know it would vary state to state, but in general this wouldn't be considered illegal would it?

Well, the gun buy back in this case is being held on property owned by the City of Dallas.

So, they might get you for doing business without a permit or some crap like that, but no gun laws would be broken.

Double Naught Spy
February 28, 2009, 10:36 AM
Racist? Um, no. This is not a racist program. If you have to fabricate such an angle in order to try to get your piont across, then maybe your point isn't that good.

TexasRifleman
February 28, 2009, 10:38 AM
This is not a racist program.

Tell me. If the NRA targeted a membership drive aimed at only Blacks what do you think would happen?

Here you have a city government, in cooperation with a private company, targeting specific areas for this, based on race.

There is gun crime in the high income parts of Dallas too, why are they not targeted?

Because $50 isn't much money, and no one in the higher income areas (which happen to be mostly white) would sell a gun for 50 bucks.

They are targeting an area with lower income and lower education specifically.

If the City decided to put up street cameras in this part of town but not the "white" parts of town what do you think would happen?

Why is this any different?

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.


This area was not chosen because of it's crime rate, it was chosen because of who lives there. How do you get more race based than that?

Double Naught Spy
February 28, 2009, 11:06 AM
Okay, just how do you know that the area was selected because of race?

What is the racial makeup of the Reunion Arena area? The closest housing to Reunion Arena is some very expensive housing. Those are some wealthy people that live around that area. Are you telling me that they have chosen affluent non-whites as their target audience? Maybe they hope to draw in a lot of folks from the Hyatt Regency Hotel next door?

Let me help you. The zip code is 75207. Here are the demographics for that zip code...
White 4,386
Black or African American 3,055
American Indian and Alaska Native 81
Asian 7
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 6
Some other race 220
Two or more races 361
Hispanic or Latino (of any race) 1,456

In checking the zip codes around Reunion Arena, it appears that each is dominated by whites. Interesting.

You claim that this gun buy is racist and then note that the buyback would not work in more affluent areas. So by your own admission, you are saying this is an economic issue, not a racial issue. You are inferring it is a racial issue because of the buyback location. If that is the case, then by golly you are right. They are trying to take guns from white people as the area is dominated by whites!

What harm is being done to the people who opt to trade in their firearms? Or maybe you feel they are getting some benefit the whites aren't getting? Do you feel left out by not being included?

Is every business that advertises primarily on hispanic or hip-hop stations necessarily racist?

Given that the hispanic and hip-hop station are also sponsors of the event, hispanics catering to hispanics and hip-hop folks catering to hip-hop folks, then is this racist?

Being local to DFW, I noticed that the buyback has been on every TV station and the news of several AM and FM stations. So the coverage goes well beyond just the sponsors. Racist?

Since you are playing the racism card, then explain the harm that is being done by offering to buy guns at Reunion Arena.

jon_in_wv
February 28, 2009, 11:28 AM
I do have a Davis 22 mag derringer I wouldn't mind getting 50 bucks for. But I would refuse to sell it to a stupid "buy back" program just on principal.

TexasRifleman
February 28, 2009, 11:38 AM
Okay, just how do you know that the area was selected because of race?


LOL, I live here, I know exactly why that area was targeted.

The zip code of Reunion arena has nothing to do with it. Reunion is the closest city owned publicly usable property for this kind of thing and the bus lines all go there.

The target for this is Oak Cliff and you can't pretend otherwise. The 2 radio stations used to advertise this show who the target audience is. This is targeted at low income residents of the part of Dallas that the mayor and others want to pretend doesn't exist; that area just across the street from Reunion, south of I30.

The other sponsor, Schepps Dairy, is right in the middle of Oak Cliff.

No doubt they believe they are "helping their community" but the reality is all these things do is disarm unknowing citizens. Since there is no amnesty offered, and ID's must be shown at the gun buy back, there is no chance that "illegal guns" will appear here.

Travis Bickle
February 28, 2009, 11:42 AM
They are only offering a $50 gift card for an operational gun. I'm not sure how many people are willing to do this trade.

Probably not many. You can get more than that at at any pawn shop for most guns.

PT1911
February 28, 2009, 11:50 AM
it's racist, no its not, its racist, no its not, lol....I dont know if it is racist, but if they are offering 50 bucks for the buy back. seems to me it is POORIST.. (yes I made that up) I am not one to say who is or isnt going to listen to a hip-hop station, I have laughed till I cried at some of the whitest of the white trying to rap, but I do smell a bit of bs in this situation.. just dont quite know the flavor.

RedAlert
February 28, 2009, 11:59 AM
One issue I've not seen mentioned is or questioned is who initiated the program.

Quoted from initial link:

Event sponsors include Dallas Police, KBFB-FM 97.9 "The Beat," and KSOC-FM 94.5, One-Dallas, Univision 23, Schepps Dairy and Better Dallas Safer Dallas.

Dallas is not using public money to purchase the gift cards, which Kroger is providing at a 30 percent discount to event sponsors, Dallas spokesman Frank Librio said.

End Quote.

Did a local neighborhood civic program, like "Dallas Safer Dallas" come up with the idea and sought sponsors to pay for the program? Did they go to the local radio stations and ask for sponsorship and then sought out a big name sponsor? Maybe Kroger stepped up because they thought it was a good civic program and volunteered to offer a reward, ie buy-back.

I think there is a good possibility here that they are being unfairly targeted. I don't know it for a fact, just a feeling based on the way these things often work.

I'm sorry, but the original poster, seems to be looking for an opportunity to wave the racist flag. I don't view this as a valid case for that.

Ralph

Gun 4 Fun
February 28, 2009, 12:04 PM
I wonder how many guns will be stolen so that some gangbanger can get his fix money for the day?

How many punk kids will steal their dad's gun to sell just to get back at him for something?

This stuff happens with buy back programs. They are stupid forms of gun control, which still makes them wrong.

TexasRifleman
February 28, 2009, 12:06 PM
One issue I've not seen mentioned is or questioned is who initiated the program.

Deputy Mayor Pro Tem Dwaine Caraway is credited for starting this, at least in the local media.


Oh, the local news just did an on-scene story.

3 guns sold.

Gungnir
February 28, 2009, 12:54 PM
Well my $0.02.

I'm voting with my Dollars, QFC will not be getting my money (QFC is the Kroger brand in WA).

The requirement of ID is the real kicker for me, it eliminates any possibility of removing illegal guns from circulation. While removing legally owned firearms from people who made a choice to feed the family for a few days or have a self defense weapon for much longer (of course I'm not highly complimentary of them either see my sig).

I think since they're a sponsor they could have made this an amnesty (no Identification), which might have removed illegally owned guns from circulation (if I illegally owned say a Glock, could simultaneously get $50 and rid of the gun, it's a much fairer trade).

Ultimately regardless of the tag it is discriminatory. The buy back value is so low regardless of heritage it's going to hit the poor.

So I sent this.


Dallas Buy back event at Reunion Arena on Feb 28th.

I am very disappointed with Kroger's involvement in this event. For two specific reasons

1) As a second amendment supporter I disagree that this will achieve any substantial crime reduction, while removing the self defense ability of people who live in high crime, and high poverty areas who are making a hard decision as to whether to keep a self defense weapon, or put food on the table.

2) The nature and marketing of the event makes me believe that the event is specifically targeted at the Hispanic and Black ethnic groups.

Obviously your sponsorship is designed to provide minimal cost to you, and your research has not adequately covered the current costs of firearms, $50 for a functional firearm (long or hand gun) is a pittance, to the point of insult. Also by the requirement of identification to be presented, this has eliminated the possibility of removing illegally owned firearms from circulation, which would have been a much better goal. At the same time small families at or below the poverty line might decide that 1 or two days of food might be a more important short term goal than having a self defense weapon available to them. These people often live in areas for instance Oak Cliff, where having a defensive weapon might in a very real sense be the only thing standing between that family and criminals.

I'm not holding Kroger solely responsible for the event and requirements, but being sponsor you would have had input on the event, and could have recommended that no identification be required.

Due to this I will be voting with my dollars and frequenting Safeway, or Albertsons in future.

Old Fuff
February 28, 2009, 01:06 PM
I don't follow gun buy-back programs very closely, but offhand I can't remember one that wasn't conducted in a minority populated/low income neighborhood. Of course these are also high-crime areas, with most of the shooting incidents being drug-dealing related. Obviously those who are involved in "the business" are unlikely to be the ones that turn in any hardware. If you look at the amount of money (or whatever) that's offered it's obvious who’s the buy-back's are targeting.

It's not the folks that live in high-rise condos.

gmt1948
February 28, 2009, 01:26 PM
"Dallas is not using public money to purchase the gift cards, which Kroger is providing at a 30 percent discount to event sponsors, Dallas spokesman Frank Librio said."

Probably a dumb question, but does that make Kroger the "buyer?" If so, are all federal and state firearm purchase laws being followed or broken (i.e. background check for each purchase, waiting period, multiple purchases) etc?

ronbwolf
February 28, 2009, 01:56 PM
Just addressing the "racist" aspect of this. All "gun control" has it's roots in racism. "Gun control," is really "people control." The CCW laws in California were passed in the 1800's with the intent of keeping firearms out of the hands of "chinese", this at a time when "chinese" could not testify in court against "whites." Missouri laws regarding gun purchase, required getting a letter from the "good ol' boy" sheriff to allow a purchase, this intended to keep "blacks" from purchasing. And if you look at one of the most common terms used against handguns over the years, "Saturday Night Specials," few politicians use the complete, original term, "Ni@@er-town Saturday night specials." So yes, "gun control" in any form is racist. While most hedge their racism in "reasonableness" it means "people control," and most have "those people," whoever they dislike, in mind.

fd62
February 28, 2009, 02:10 PM
in reguard to the subtopic of attempting to purchase guns at a buy back I found this article with a reference to that.

http://www.ohio.com/news/34884884.html

"As people waited in line outside the church, Holland said, some gun collectors attempted to purchase weapons, but they were asked to leave."

GRAYRID3R
February 28, 2009, 02:55 PM
Kroger is by far my biggest customer. I work with a lot of employees from upper management on down to store level. Many of them own guns and the Loss Prevention Manager actually shoots at the same range as me and owns several guns. Kroger sponsors a lot of local and even neighborhood events, and has stores in every ethnic and demographic area there is. I don't agree with all the community events, and hell I don't even believe in
"Black History Month" as history is history no matter what color the people are or were. This country is still a free Republic and people have the right to do what ever they want to as long at it's legal. If some fools want to throw away their guns, I don't give a damn. I'm keeping mine and I'm not going to be influenced by some whiners or wienners from either side of what I believe to be a non-event in my life. I was at a Kroger in Knoxville that was sponsoring a turkey shoot last year. I didn't see anybody protesting there.

mgregg85
February 28, 2009, 03:22 PM
I remember working at the local PD as a teen and when some poor sap had his guns confiscated as a result of a 209a (restraining order) the gun expert Sgt would walk down the line saying, "mine, mine, mine" He was a great guy a and a true connesouir.....the winchesters would get returned and the Parkers would dissapear....lost during processing.

Your sarge sounds like a serious ****** and a criminal to boot, stealing people's stuff.

TexasRifleman
February 28, 2009, 04:05 PM
Kroger is by far my biggest customer. I work with a lot of employees from upper management on down to store level. Many of them own guns and the Loss Prevention Manager actually shoots at the same range as me and owns several guns. Kroger sponsors a lot of local and even neighborhood events,

I'm sure Kroger has done and still does good works.

But as a company philosophy it's crazy to become involved on one side or another in Religion, Politics, Gun Control or Abortion.

They should have stayed out of gun control. They need to be informed of their mistake.

If you know folks at Kroger on an executive level, you might let them know about this. The company is certainly free to get involved in polarizing issues like this, but it needs to understand the consequences.

hso
February 28, 2009, 04:40 PM
TR,

Kroger sells gift cards at discount to all sorts of organizations. The gift cards may have been sold to one of the sponsors without knowing where they were specifically going.

It might be best to run this down in detail before executing collaborators. It would be terribly embarrassing to us if it turned out that one of the sponsors with a 501.c.3 status bought the cards and Kroger provided 30% discounts to all qualified 501.c.3s. This could do the RKBA community some harm is we've gone off half cocked.

GRAYRID3R
February 28, 2009, 04:48 PM
They should have stayed out of gun control. They need to be informed of their mistake.

I don't see this as a gun control issue, as it is completely voluntary. If I deceide to throw all my guns in the river it should be nobody's problem but the fish. They are MY guns to do with as I please as long as it's legal to do so.

TexasRifleman
February 28, 2009, 08:32 PM
I don't see this as a gun control issue, as it is completely voluntary.

So is my shopping at their competitors from now on. Completely voluntary.

Unless Kroger disavows this publicly, they are connected to an anti gun political agenda, so I am free to spend thousands of dollars a year on groceries somewhere else.

Ain't freedom great?

Knowingly or not, Kroger has supported an anti gun political agenda. If it happened unknowingly, then they need to be made aware and in the future better vet their support of groups. if they knowingly participated, gun owners should let them know that mistake will cost them money.

As for going off half cocked, I'm more than happy to resume spending money at Kroger should they publicly disavow support of this anti gun agenda. I'll be looking for a response from them. Schepps Dairy as well.

I'm in email correspondence with Trey Garrison as well http://www.treygarrison.com/
I believe he has a better chance of uncovering exactly what happened here.

Double Naught Spy
March 1, 2009, 12:10 AM
Unless Kroger disavows this publicly, they are connected to an anti gun political agenda, so I am free to spend thousands of dollars a year on groceries somewhere else.

You are free to spend your money elsewhere regardless of what Kroger does.

So you were already spending thousands a year on groceries at Kroger before this buy-back? Or do you just spend thousands a year on groceries of which Kroger will now never see any percentage of it?

FYI, they purchased 147 guns.

In watching the news this evening, I should have been surprised at the folks they showed standing in line with guns to sell, given the OP. If the buy-back was targeting blacks and hispanics as a racist ploy, then it seems to have done a fairly poor job given the numbers of whites shown to be selling guns.

http://cbs11tv.com/local/Gun.Buyback.Program.2.946917.html

orionengnr
March 1, 2009, 12:17 AM
Well, I'm a DFW area gun owner who shops at Kroger, Tom Thumb and (occasisonally) Albertsons.

As of today, that changes. And I will be letting Kroger know about this change, and the reasons for it.

Bastiges. :cuss:

Travis Bickle
March 1, 2009, 12:26 AM
Probably a dumb question, but does that make Kroger the "buyer?" If so, are all federal and state firearm purchase laws being followed or broken (i.e. background check for each purchase, waiting period, multiple purchases) etc?

None of that stuff is required for private sales in Texas.

TexasRifleman
March 1, 2009, 12:46 AM
So you were already spending thousands a year on groceries at Kroger before this buy-back?

I did 100% of my grocery shopping at Kroger until this weekend.

If the buy-back was targeting blacks and hispanics as a racist ploy, then it seems to have done a fairly poor job given the numbers of whites shown to be selling guns.

That doesn't change the fact that the marketing was aimed at the minority community.

taprackbang
March 1, 2009, 01:12 AM
Tx. Rifleman is right and DNSpy is wrong.

taprackbang
March 1, 2009, 01:15 AM
Double Naught must be blind. I watched the CBS 11 video and it wasn't mainly white folks selling guns; it appeared to be blacks that were turning in their weapons for a stupid gift card.
Bunch of ignorant people! Gun control is racist!

And I maintain that only a fool would turn in his gun for his free liquor card.. OOPS I mean FOOD card.

hso
March 1, 2009, 01:23 AM
If it happened unknowingly, then they need to be made aware and in the future better vet their support of groups.

TR,

Have you ever approached any retailer on behalf of a c3 nonprofit? My wife and I have.

What they need to know for their corporate donations program is can you prove you are a c3. Not what you're doing, but did you bring your c3 paperwork with you and can you fill out their form for their finance/accounting program. If you just want to purchase gift cards the manager may have the authority to make the decision to discount them on his own. They probably give an automatic discount on the cards with the c3. If you need a bunch or you want them for free they usually have to go up to the regional giving coordinator.

Let's be sure of what we're doing.

So, find out who the guilty party is and what they're guilty of before going off half cocked.

Double Naught Spy
March 1, 2009, 10:16 AM
Double Naught must be blind. I watched the CBS 11 video and it wasn't mainly white folks selling guns; it appeared to be blacks that were turning in their weapons for a stupid gift card.
Bunch of ignorant people! Gun control is racist!

And I maintain that only a fool would turn in his gun for his free liquor card.. OOPS I mean FOOD card.

Try rereading my post. I never claimed it was mainly white folks selling back guns, did I, but there were a lot for a buy-back that supposedly targeted blacks and hispanics.

While on the topic, just how is a buy-back gun control? How is people voluntarily selling what they don't want gun control or racist?

And I maintain that only a fool would turn in his gun for his free liquor card.. OOPS I mean FOOD card.

Since your OOPS obviously isn't a mistake, are you suggesting that people who sold back guns are alcoholics? Since you weren't there, how is it you think you know what they are going to buy with the cards?

hso
March 1, 2009, 11:25 AM
Ok, this is turning into more than one discussion so it's closed. Perhaps when we start to get replies from Kroger we'll open another thread.

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