New 9mm Purchase Concerns/Issues


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teesee
February 27, 2009, 03:24 AM
Hello there THR folks ... first post here.

I've never owned a handgun. I've shot and handled a few things recently as I am considering a polymer 9mm of some description for a range gun only. I do still prefer a service pistol design however.

I've taken a few .40s out, and didn't enjoy them, so 9mm it is for me. I am not about to pay to feed a .45 for paper. Here's an idea of what I've got on the list and what I see as gotchas which each, but maybe I'm wrong on a few things, and you folks could shed some light ...

G17: Does not naturally point for me, that I know. However, if I actually take one out as a total beginner, I'm already seeing 2" groups on a good day at 10 yards during slow fire, and that's been on two different G17s. Is it possible that someone shoots okay with a gun that isn't a perfect grip angle and fit? What I like about the G17 is the service/parts/support and the sense I have that it will stay reliable long term. It's also everywhere, so why not learn it inside out. Don't like the trigger a lot, yet when I'm out with one, I do okay. What gives?

SP2009/SP2022: I actually have a weakness for DA/SA but I have not fired this particular gun yet. Now that said, it fits perfectly in my hand. Just, 100% bang-on with controls where they should be, everything works like it should. My concern here is the obvious move to the P250 and the likelihood of parts/support etc. long term since this gun won't be around much longer from what I gather. Cheap factory mags are a plus, right now, but that's not quite enough to sway me alone given the long term concern. I don't like that the SPs lack a traditional SIG takedown lever, but the ergos are top-notch for me on these things. My experience with an older P229 suggests that I do shoot well and enjoy the SIG controls/trigger. Any thoughts?

USP: This isn't here for any HK mall ninja reasons, but more because the USP can offer DA/SA and has a grip angle that works for me, and feels very, very solid in the hand, so it's on the list. Mag release bugs me but I'd adjust in a while I suspect. What concerns me here is the "you suck, and we hate you" thing where people have to hound HK for even the most trivial parts. I don't want something I can't keep in top condition. Other concern is that this is pretty large chunk for a 9x19 range gun, and I don't want to go to a compact.

PX4: Gorgeous and slick, points very naturally and easily for me. Fits well and can offer DA/SA goodness. But that rotating barrel just is not inspiring that reliable no-questions sort of thing the G17 is. Am I wrong on this? Something about it is putting me off. Otherwise, really nice, thought I have not fired one yet. I also hear you basically need new sights for them, which isn't great. What I don't know is if the service/support thing is there with Beretta, any opinions? Not sure about accuracy here either, and the sight radius is pretty grim when compared to the G17.

Any input welcome here!

As for why a few obvious picks are missing from the list: I've shot the M&P, and absolutely nothing about that gun worked for me. I've also picked up a few XDs but just didn't get that big warm and fuzzy over the G17 that some seem to experience. Will shoot one soon to be sure, though.

Any opinions and comments highly appreciated. Apologies in advance for any beginner/n00b misuse or confusion of terms. This is a great forum.

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C-grunt
February 27, 2009, 03:48 AM
Any of those guns would be a good choice. I dont think you have to worry about the reliability of the Px4. Beretta has been using that system for years with little complaints that I have ever heard. I had a Stoeger 9mm (same gun as Beretta Cougar, by different company) and never had any problems with it.

Why does it have to be polymer? You said you do well with a Sig so Id say you answered your own question.

teesee
February 27, 2009, 03:58 AM
I suppose it doesn't have to be polymer, but that's what I have found I'm gravitating to for the most part. I do have warm feelings for the P226 and 92FS in terms of metal, the 92 fits really well actually but as witht he PX4 it still comes back to Beretta service/support ... anyone have to deal with them lately?

CPshooter
February 27, 2009, 04:48 AM
For what it's worth the rotating barrel system on the Beretta is supposed to be super reliable just by design. Don't know why, but I hear it's very reliable and reduces felt recoil. I have no experience with Berettas though.

I have to endorse the USP Compact. I have owned so many Glocks and in the end I found that H&K offers a higher quality product that shoots better in my hands. I sold every Glock I own and the only polymer service pistols I have left are H&Ks (a USP .40 Compact V1 being one of them). I have experienced complete and utter reliability from my H&Ks. Although I wish I could say the same for the Glocks, I'd be lieing if I did. Of course, there are thousands of people that trust their lives to a Glock, and for a good reason too.

The USP Compact is just a great gun overall. I shoot mine VERY accurately without even trying. As far as getting parts goes, H&K's customer service has been top notch for me. I actually called them yesterday to order 2 springs so I can lighten up the LEM trigger pull on my P2000sk 9mm. They were helpful, took my information, and told me it would be shipped out in 1 or 2 days. Getting parts for an H&K is not hard at all. You probably won't need to anyhow.

Sigs are great guns too, but have never put down the money to own one. If you go the Sig route, stay with the all-metal P-series guns. I have heard that quality control has been suffering with them lately, but that's probably mostly internet rumors.

I've owned 2 XDs as well. Great guns at a great price. Mine never gave me any problems, but I think they are a bit heavy/bulky for polymer handguns.

I don't like M&Ps. Nothing is appealing about them to my hands and eyes. Their trigger system isn't exactly the safest out there. I won't comment on performance/reliability because I've never owned one, but I know for a fact that I'm not missing out on anything.

In the end, I say go with the H&K USPc or a P2000. I have them both and won't ever get rid of them.

chupacabrah
February 27, 2009, 07:00 AM
I currently own a glock....has been very reliable, and the grip angle never was right for me. but after about the second time shooting it, i can get tight groups at 10-15 yards.

I did have an M&P...this was a great pistol, and was super reliable after a breakin period (50-100 rounds). the only problem I had during that time was a failure to return to battery. I only sold it because I did not want a fullsize.

My wife is getting an XDsc. a little heavier/bigger than the glock, but they're great guns also.

It's hard to go wrong as long as you choose a quality product

Wonder9
February 27, 2009, 07:01 AM
I too have a weakness for a DA/SA operating pistol ...I've been a Sig fan for years (P220, P225, & P228). Having said that, I shoot my Glock (G26) so well I'd be a fool to let any other gun be in my hand when my life depended on it. I digress, you did say you wanted a range gun not a carry piece but that could very well be your progression in the future.

Let me muddy your waters even more by suggesting CZ. They have a great following and everyone seems to rave about there DA/SA pistols.

23Glock
February 27, 2009, 07:48 AM
Most people I've talked to who are "Glock people" hated them when they first started, me included. They require getting used to, but once you do, you'll never look back. If you shoot well with it, that says a LOT. A gun fitting your hand is an important aspect of the selection process, but by all means not the most important, or only apsect. Case in point: The Sig P250. Fit my hand like a glove. The closest thing I've ever experienced to an "extension of my hand". I was in love the moment I held it. It was beautiful, graceful, young, vibrant. But like most centerfold models, lots to look at on the outside...had nothing going for it on the inside. Weapon is a piece of garbage - biggest purchase mistake ever. I felt like I cheated on my ugly wife-of-a-Glock with some flashy, young babe... Went crawling back to the Glock with my tail between my legs... She took me back, thankfully.
I'm down on Sig because of the P250, but I can't argue with those who like their classic line. Solid, proven.
Also, as CPshooter said, don't discount the Springfield XD line. I find they're like a more "user friendly" Glock. Similar design and reliability, but with a slightly better grip design. Also, since you seem to be looking at full size frames, you really should take a look at the XDm in 9mm. There's another one that fit me almost perfectly, but I don't own/carry a full size.

G.R.
February 27, 2009, 08:01 AM
I was a big Beretta fan untill I tried and purchased a CZ75

Another CZ is in my future

Make sure you give them a look

benderx4
February 27, 2009, 08:25 AM
Buy any of the following guns and you will be a HAPPY man!

1. HK USP9
2. Beretta 92FS
3. CZ 75B (or variant)

Good luck and happy shooting!

SomeDude
February 27, 2009, 12:14 PM
Try the SR9. I've put over 2000 rounds through mine with no problems. Of course someone on here will bemoan the pistol but it has served me (and countless others) well.

broken
February 27, 2009, 03:45 PM
im a s@w kinda man but the sr9 feels great in the paw,but dang their pricey still,429.00,even p89/95/94 price is up quite a bit around here.well i guess everything is.good luck my friend purchased a new taurus 24/7 stainless for 359.00,i thought he stole it.

Jed Carter
February 27, 2009, 04:01 PM
I would buy the Glock 17 with extra, like 6 extra mags and spend the $400difference between it and the H&K on ammunition, holster, mag holders and a gunbelt. Maybe shoot IDPA or USPSA and really enjoy your new pistol.
If I had to rate your choices it would be H&K, SIG, Glock and the Beretta I'm not familiar with, but I might suggest the Walther P99 as an alternate. Please let us know what you decide, and as always we all like photos.

PS; The pointing issue on Glocks may be more of a hand hold issue. Since I changed my two hand grip at the prompting of an instructor it points perfectly.

.357 magnum
February 27, 2009, 05:51 PM
I never liked the Regular Springfield XD Grip and how Blockey the Gun felt-Not Balanced -Top Heavy. I owned three Springfield .45's at one point in time, but have sold all of them. The New XD-M however is a Totally different Gun in terms of the Ergonomics and Some Functionality. I was so Impressed I bought a Second 9mm only three weeks after I bought the first one. You throw in the 19rd Mag's, a Great Trigger and Excellent Accuracy, it has been an Awesome Package. A real combat 9mm:evil: Go give one a try, you will Never look Back!:)

The Best to You and Yours!

Frank

searcher451
February 27, 2009, 07:07 PM
Buy the gun that works best for you, not that gun that some stranger, well-meaning or otherwise, recommends on a gun board. Rent 'em, borrow 'em, ask the guy at the range next to you, it doesn't matter ... but experiment until you discover the perfect fit. Then buy it.

1KPerDay
February 27, 2009, 07:11 PM
Winner.

modifiedbrowning
February 27, 2009, 07:51 PM
If you like the feel of the Sig checkout the FNP-9.

teesee
February 28, 2009, 06:31 PM
Searcher, definitely trying to do just that. Just trying to figure out if I'm right or wrong about some of the customer service concerns I have about certain makes and if your shooting matters more than just what a certain grip angle or feel is like in your hand at the shop. Definitely trying to get what works for me.

Thanks to the person who mentioned that the XDm really felt different/better to them, that's something I didn't know and will check out.

psyopspec
February 28, 2009, 06:39 PM
You've rounded it out to a good list. I've never dealt with Beretta customer service - guess mine worked too well. For the brief time I owned a PX4, I didn't really warm up to it but it was perfectly reliable.

I know you've already got a lot on your plate, but the P2000 by HK may be another pistol to consider. DA/SA, 13+1 in 9mm, changeable backstraps to fit to your hand, and polymer. I love mine, lots of mileage on it with never a problem.

distra
February 28, 2009, 08:19 PM
If you can try a CZ 75B or D, I think you will be quite impressed. Same for a Hi-power. These are just as good as a quality and reliability as your previously mentioned 9mm's. Give these a try before committing to the G17.

ajoker31
February 28, 2009, 08:53 PM
Ahhhhh yes....we all started out with that "just a range gun mentality." Welcome to the life of a gun enthusiast! All your choices are very good ones. I've owned all the manufacturers you've mentioned and they're all great.

If you live in a state in which concealed carry may be an option later I'd suggest the idea of buying something that could fit both requirements (especially if money is tight). My house gun and carry gun are both glocks, not pretty but completely reliable with no funky safeties to mess with. I have a few different pistols that I play with for targets and tight accuracy.

I'd probably go with a glock 19.....that way you would have something small enough for carry but also put a grip extension and G17 magazine in it and have a full size for home and range. Go with what works best for you though and enjoy!

Jerry

Ken Rainey
February 28, 2009, 08:54 PM
If the G17 doesn't fit your hand just right, you might try a G19...the slight difference in the location of the hump in the backstrap may make it sit better in your hand, it does for a lot of people...for me, the G17 fits just right and the G19 not as much, it's ok but just not as good...:( The G19 is not the original "service size" Glock but it's used in that roll a whole lot these days by many agencies around the globe....yep, I'm partial to the 9mm Glocks...;)

fridayxiii
February 28, 2009, 11:25 PM
I currently have a PX4 9mm, have rented & shot a G19 among others. The Beretta has better ergonomics for me, less recoil (thank you rotating barrel) and less muzzle flip to boot. I'm a noobie myself and was/am amazed at how well I shoot the PX4. Much room to improve to be sure but great "out of the box" accuracy for a new shooter like myself.

Edit: BTW, ajoker is right: this thing starts out as "I'm just getting a range/HD gun", and soon you have a wish list. Since mid-December I've acquired a S&W, a Beretta, but just can't see not owning a Sig, a nice CZ 75b or P-01... ;)

Mister V
March 1, 2009, 09:47 PM
I think the best advice given here is to try as many pistols as you can to see what you like best, and have some fun doing it. I love my Beretta 92FS. After a 15 year hiatus from shooting ( darn that great job I had) I decided to give the hobby another try. I bought the Beretta, went to the range and that pistol made me a much better shooter than I remember being. :o

I bought a Ruger SR9 a month or so ago and have enjoyed it as well. If it's as much fun as the Ruger Mark 1 I have, then it's one of the best purchases I've made. I just now picked up a CZ75 9mm but won't get to shoot it until later this week.

As for Beretta service, a cousin of mine had a little trouble with his Berettas some years back and was able to get them taken care of quickly. And another cousin likes his Bersa 9mm. Lots of choices, so have a good time trying them.

punkndisorderly
March 2, 2009, 06:34 AM
I agree with Mister V. Try out some pistols and see what works for you.

Generally, I recommend starting off with the Glock, M&P, and XD. Jot down some mental or actual notes on what you like or don't like about them. If none of them works for you, you should at least have an indication of what you're looking for.

I hated Glocks for years. Then I ran 100 rounds through a Glock, including running through the CCW course of fire I had run through a week earlier with my 1911. What's odd was that I shot that Baby Glock better than I've ever shot either my Beretta 92 or 1911. Initially I thought it was the recoil of the 1911 but after putting rounds through a few .45 Glocks, and finding I shot them better than all but a TRP 1911 I figured that wasn't it either. I bought a pair of Glocks and have been a happy camper ever since.

Commander Crusty
March 5, 2009, 05:11 PM
PX4 or Ruger SR9 both point better than the Glocks and are reliable.

stormspotter
March 5, 2009, 05:24 PM
Another vote for CZ, check out the P-01.

Ben86
March 5, 2009, 05:50 PM
If the G17 doesn't feel right in your hand try a G19. It makes a big difference to me.

zebco
March 6, 2009, 02:44 AM
I put around 1000 rounds through a Beretta PX-4 in 9mm. Still kind of regret getting rid of it. Not one incident (FTF/FTE) during that time, very accurate for me, and recoil almost non-existent compared to others that I shot. But it was a little too big for my hands, although I'm wondering now if that really mattered since I have yet to shoot a 9mm as well (with the possible exception of the 92.)

Another poster mentioned the FNP 9 and I'll admit I was pleasantly surprised by that one when I had the chance to shoot it recently. And it fit well in my hands.

I am anxious to try out a CZ 75.

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