7.62 Nato ammo ID


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gunsmithstudent
February 27, 2009, 08:27 PM
Was wandering around a local gunshop today and I came across 5 boxes of ammo marked:

AB 22

20 Patronen
7,62mmx51, DM 41, (nato cross)
(black circle) Weichkern

Munition für Präzisionsbeschüsse

LOS MEN - 76 - 28


I cant find any specs on this ammo at all, other than that it is intended for use in a sniper rifle/DMR, the german directly translating to Munitions for precision bombardments, and that they are soft core (weichkern). The price tag says that it is 147 grain bullets, so i am not sure about the accuracy of that label.

The rounds themselves still have the annealing marks around the neck and shoulder. The primer is sealed with green enamel and crimped in three equally spaced spots. Head stamp reads MEN 76. The bullet is copper in color and magnetic.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.

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sohcgt2
February 27, 2009, 11:13 PM
precision soft core cartridge = NATO SPEC German made

gunsmithstudent
February 27, 2009, 11:30 PM
I gathered as much from the NATO cross on the box. I have other boxes of german made 7.62 NATO spec that doesnt have anything about precision in the label. I was wondering if anyone had any experiance with this ammo, and could tell me if the "munition for precision bombardment" meant anything special.

Ben Shepherd
February 28, 2009, 12:33 AM
My guess would be that it was sniper ammo? Nothing else would have needed "precision" in the labeling that I know of. Although if "bombardment" is a direct translation that'd be a bit odd.

ACBMWM3
February 28, 2009, 12:46 AM
Being German I can tell you using Babelfish will give an exact word change.
in this case Bombardment doesnt mean what it means to us. It more means long distance fire. AKA Sniper.
I dont know anything about the round itself. Even looking around.
Can you give me some pictures and other things I could maybe take a better guess.

gunsmithstudent
February 28, 2009, 01:24 AM
yeah, i'll get some pictures for you sometime soon. I was actually using systranet, but i knew it would be a direct translation.

For being from '76, alot of the rounds look as good or better than new production that i have seen, fairly clean stuff.

gunsmithstudent
February 28, 2009, 10:41 AM
Picture of the box label, cartridges, and headstamp.

powermad
February 28, 2009, 04:30 PM
Good ammo Berdan primed though.

It has a thin steel jacket that kinda fragments on impact. Not that it is a bad thing.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/powermad69/7_62-bullet-frag.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/powermad69/frag2.jpg

Match14
February 28, 2009, 04:58 PM
I have some similar ammo, though not exactly the same, the boxes are marked
AB22
20 PATRONE,
7,62 MM x 51, DM111,
Weichkern
(NATO Stamp)(Black circle)
LOS DAG93G0368

I bought this German ammo from JG Sales a little while ago. I think mine is just standard military ball though.

powermad
February 28, 2009, 06:07 PM
DAG and MEN although made by different manufactures, are the same type of bullet.

gunsmithstudent
February 28, 2009, 07:09 PM
I've got a few boxes or the DM111, DAG93A0306, and the bullet is nickle in color, not copper. It is still magentic, though. I was able to find plenty of info on the DM111, but have hardly found anything on the DM41.

Bill_Rights
February 28, 2009, 11:08 PM
I was led to believe by the salesman that this is just standard German ball ammo. But the bullet is magnetic, like some of the others mentioned. I don't know why sniper ammo and generic ball ammo would use the exact same bullet?

Here are the headstamp and package photo for the ammo I have:

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/Bill_Rights/Headstamp1_090228.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww25/Bill_Rights/Box_cartr_flash_close_090228.jpg

If you learn anything, please post. (Or I have another thread today "Patronen? German 7.62 NATO ammo questions:" where you could post.)

Bill_Rights
March 1, 2009, 08:47 AM
Powermad,

What's up with Good ammo Berdan primed though

Being almost not a noob any more, I did a little research. Here is pretty dense thread on Berdan primers:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=286221&highlight=Berdan

How can you tell that this ammo of OP is Berdan primed?

Is it necessarily corrosive or does Berdan refer to the primer mechanical construction?

Fred West
March 1, 2009, 10:05 AM
I think military spec ammo is always Berdan primed but I could be wrong. By coincidence I've just bought some German surplus. The bullet appears to be nickel plated, 147gr with 45grs of powder behind it. I don't know how they will perform as I've not shot any yet. If the boxes they come in are anything to go by, they'll be alright. Much more substantial than the Radway Green ones anyway.
Fred

lipadj46
March 1, 2009, 10:22 AM
I think military spec ammo is always Berdan primed but I could be wrong.

Yes you are wrong. Most but not all foreign surplus is Berdan primed. The Lithuanian 7.62 Nato for example is boxer primed.

TexasRifleman
March 1, 2009, 10:27 AM
How can you tell that this ammo of OP is Berdan primed?

Is it necessarily corrosive or does Berdan refer to the primer mechanical construction?

MEN is Berdan primed, I've got a lot of it. Very good ammo.

It is rare to find .x51 that uses corrosive primer compounds. Most primer compounds that were in use by the time the x51 came out were non-corrosive.

And yes, Berdan refers to the mechanical design, not the igniting compounds used.

Bill_Rights
March 1, 2009, 10:52 AM
Is the three-point crimping to secure the primer in the base/head a "Berdan" thing or is that more widely used. The primer crimp looks like it would make reloading a bear, not that I reload (yet)....

TexasRifleman
March 1, 2009, 11:01 AM
The primer crimp looks like it would make reloading a bear, not that I reload (yet)....

Well, reloading Berdan is much tougher, but it's not just because of the primer crimping.

In the Berdan design part of the primer, the anvil, is an integral part of the brass case itself.

With Boxer primers when you punch out the primer during reloading the whole thing comes out.

To reload Berdan primed brass you have to actually modify the brass case to flatten the Berdan anvil and drill a proper flash hole for the Boxer primers flash to reach the powder. You may have to ream the primer pocket too, depending on fit and to remove the crimping you describe.

It's a royal PITA to do, but it's possible.

Now, it's also possible to buy Berdan primers and a removing tool and reload them, keeping the Berdan design. That's usually cost prohibitive because the Berdan primer cups are hard to find and expensive. Never done that one myself, just read about others trying it.

If you have some wildly rare cartridge it might be worth it but for something like .308 it's more trouble than it's worth in my opinion.

lipadj46
March 1, 2009, 11:35 AM
Is the three-point crimping to secure the primer in the base/head a "Berdan" thing or is that more widely used. The primer crimp looks like it would make reloading a bear, not that I reload (yet)....

Look inside a spent berdan case and you will see that instead of one large hole in the primer pocket there are 3 small holes. You can reload berdan primed cases if you can find Berdan primers but pretty much they are hard to find and very expensive in the USA. Some people claim you can drill out a Berdan primer pocket to make a Boxer priming hole but it seems like a real pain and a lengthy process.

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