Bottom Gun: Presidential Draft Dodger George W. Bush


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Hkmp5sd
October 4, 2003, 08:58 PM
President George W. Bush is a draft dodger. And his cowardice is the worst kind. Mr. Bush avoided both combat and making any kind of political statement on the War in Vietnam. While others served, giving their lives and limbs, or took part in a protest movement to end the war, the president's family connections got him a safe spot in the Texas Air National Guard. This is not the profile of a leader.

----snip----

And now, by stepping into a flight uniform and appearing on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln, the president has insulted the men and women who served honorably in Iraq, and the more than 58 thousand heroes whose names are etched into black granite in Washington, and the surviving Vietnam Vets.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/06/05_moore.html

A National Guard pilot is a coward yet a draft dodging, can't figure out how to inhale dope, war protester is not? Amazing.

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4570Rick
October 4, 2003, 09:12 PM
You can tell a liberal.....but you can't tell them much.:rolleyes:

Navy joe
October 4, 2003, 09:23 PM
So by that "logic" the vast majority of the U.S. Military of the time serving in Korea, Europe, and stateside were draftdodgers too. Sneaky little devils, they avoided the draft by volunteering first or showing up when called and "pulling strings" to stay stateside.

What'd W. fly? IIRC correctly it was either F-105 or F-106. Either way, not something your life insurance agent is thrilled to hear about.

BryanP
October 4, 2003, 09:50 PM
He flew the F-102 Delta Dagger. That's another point that some detractors have made as being a sign of Daddy keeping his little boy safe. By being assigned a thoroughly obsolescent aircraft it was guaranteed that he would never be deployed out of CONUS.

longeyes
October 4, 2003, 10:23 PM
The F-102 was a perfect fratboy hot rod. Go straight, go fast, kill
propeller-driven Russki bombers before they cross our borders.

I think if we are going to use courage under fire as our criterion
for political leaders in this day and age we are going to all be
sorely disappointed.

4v50 Gary
October 4, 2003, 10:25 PM
At least he served. Me, a lifetime of humble civil service.

Standing Wolf
October 4, 2003, 10:27 PM
Same old sore losers. Same old snivelling and whining.

Ho, hum.

Mark Tyson
October 4, 2003, 10:51 PM
Come on, everyone knows why you joined the national guard in the 1960's. They weren't doing this "total force" thing they're doing today, where the guard does as much work as the active component. Be honest. I will admit that Dubya did turn his life around eventually, but in the 60's he was nothing but a partying brat.

Hkmp5sd
October 4, 2003, 11:22 PM
They weren't doing this "total force" thing they're doing today, where the guard does as much work as the active component.

Being in the NG did not mean you were safe from being sent to Vietnam. On May 13, 1968, 12,234 Army National Guardsmen in 20 units from 17 states were mobilized for service during the Vietnam War. Eight units deployed to Vietnam and over 7,000 Army Guardsmen served in the war zone.

And believe it or not, there were thousands of military people that served during the Vietnam War that never went anywhere near a combat zone. That includes some that were drafted. Anyone with the right connections could get a nice safe assignment on active duty. Does the former corespondent Al Gore ring a bell?

RKCheung
October 5, 2003, 03:55 AM
And believe it or not, there were thousands of military people that served during the Vietnam War that never went anywhere near a combat zone. That includes some that were drafted. Anyone with the right connections could get a nice safe assignment on active duty. Does the former corespondent Al Gore ring a bell?

One thing I'll have to give to Al Gore was that at least he was there, albeit very safe and for a very short time. But he did make it in country, which is more than Dubya did.

C.R.Sam
October 5, 2003, 04:43 AM
Whether by choice or by luck or by orders...
A lot more non-combatants than combatants.

That's the way it works.

Sam

Dilettante
October 5, 2003, 05:03 AM
By being assigned a thoroughly obsolescent aircraft it was guaranteed that he would never be deployed out of CONUS.

I looked into this a couple of months ago.
When Bush started learning the F-102, they were still being flown in Vietnam.
Now he might have asked to learn an old plane, just in the hopes that it would be deprecated by the time he learned to fly it...but that wouldn't be the first choice of a true "draft dodger".

dinosaur
October 5, 2003, 08:09 AM
I don`t get it. When it was said that Presidential Candidate William Jefferson Clinton was a draft dodger, the libs said "Kewl". Bush the Elder was a war hero. The libs said "So What"? What`s changed?:confused: :barf:

I`d say most THRer`s aren`t veterans. Do we equate them with Clinton? The libs made so many things a non issue and now it`s important again. See the "revelations" that have cropped up against Ahnold in Kali recently.

Kharn
October 5, 2003, 09:38 AM
Its my opinion that someone that strapped on a supersonic interceptor with the mission of shooting down Soviet bombers did a lot more for his country than a news photographer wearing camo and protected by several armed escorts. Even if he only did it one weekend a month.

IMHO, it doesnt matter where you served, it only matters how you served.

Kharn

mcshot
October 5, 2003, 10:30 AM
I remember well as an enlistee in 68 that you were sent where they needed you via the war "pipeline" and not where you wanted to go doing the things you wanted to do. I thought I'd make a good warrior and was fit to do so but they "needed" me elsewhere. Damned if I could get over that but I did my best and did my time where they sent me. I think that applies to most.
mc

F4GIB
October 5, 2003, 11:53 AM
The military sends you where it wants to. It was possible to volunteer for service in RVN and be denied. I know of people who were denied because they were "essential" where they were or because they had "knowledge" the government didn't want to risk exposing.

longeyes
October 5, 2003, 12:13 PM
Here's how I see it:

Most of us "on the right" want and need a hero we can believe in
to stop The Tide. Bush, right now, is the best we have. But take
a close look at this man's life and you are hard-pressed to avoid
the conclusion that not only is he not heroic but that he has been
riding on some pretty big shoulders all along. Somebody Up There likes
him. A whole lot. And I don't mean The Deity.

I'm a realist. I will vote for the man who best serves my self-interest.
Right now that is Bush (& Company). Do I wish we had a man running
with a more authentic personal history and a firmer grasp of and commitment to
my values? Yes. This is something the Republican Party is going to
have to deal with, and they may have to do a lot of soul-searching
after the '04 Election if GWB isn't re-elected. We can do better. That
we haven't bears deep scrutiny.

Andrew Rothman
October 5, 2003, 05:07 PM
Um, if I recall, didn't GW join the TX Air National Guard, then go AWOL for over a year?

444
October 5, 2003, 06:24 PM
It sounds good to talk about one weekend a month, weekend warrior and all that but how long do you think he spent on active duty learning to fly jet fighter aircraft ?
I don't know buy I would think that today it would take at least two years of active duty if it could be done at all. I somehow doubt that you could even enlist to fly fighter planes as a reservist.

jrhead75
October 5, 2003, 06:44 PM
One thing I'll have to give to Al Gore was that at least he was there, albeit very safe and for a very short time. But he did make it in country, which is more than Dubya did. What on earth does "being there" have to do with anything? Gore in 'nam was a whole lot safer than someone flying a supersonic antique here in the states.

benewton
October 5, 2003, 10:12 PM
Can't resist, since it's just too good...

How many of the critics have done their first solo in ANY aircraft???

Very interesting, sitting at the end of the runway with an empty instuctor seat, if I do say so myself...

If you were alive then, remember the time.

If you were not, I think I'd just be quiet about the whole thing, since there are some things that you simply don't, and can't, understand.

Quartus
October 5, 2003, 10:49 PM
longeyes, I think you hit the nail on the head. There's no doubt in my mind that strings were pulled to get Bush a "safer" spot than going to Viet Nam. And there's no doubt in my mind that the Gore clan did the same thing, but were smarter about it, getting a cushy, safe job for a few months so that later he could say he served in Viet Nam.

Whether that reflects a personal cowardice or not is another question. I don't think it does. I think it has much more to do with political ambitions, even if they are on the part of Papa.


But it stinks in both cases.

FPrice
October 5, 2003, 11:04 PM
"Um, if I recall, didn't GW join the TX Air National Guard, then go AWOL for over a year?"

Nope, you are just repeating what someone said.

Technically, you cannot go "AWOL" from Guard or reserve duty. You go "AWOL" from active duty. You have unexcused absences from Guard/Reserve training sessions.

Yeah, he might not have shown up, but that is a far cry from going AWOL and his critics are hoping that a lot of people don't know the difference.

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