Makarovs and Tokarevs


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DAVIDSDIVAD
February 28, 2009, 02:00 AM
Hi everyone, this is one of those, "where do I find, how much should I pay, what is decent quality" kinda threads.

My girlfriend is gonna come back to visit this summer, so I want to take her to the range, and I thought it'd be cool if I had one of the pistols from her homeland for her to try out.

In case you missed the title, I'm looking for surplus russian handguns.

No Nagant revolvers, or romanian guns please; I'd like it to be something strictly russian.

Anyhow, THR away!

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grimjaw
February 28, 2009, 03:19 AM
You're going to pay a premium on both of those guns if you want the Russian produced versions, especially the Tokarev. The Bulgarian version of the Makarov will be less expensive with the same quality. The Romanian Tokarevs I've seen are crude but not as worn or abused as the Russian versions. The Polish Tokarevs are some of the cream of the current crop, and are still less expensive than the Russian. I can't speak for the Chinese Toks, never handled one.

jm

Pilot
February 28, 2009, 09:17 AM
Get a Bulgarian military surplus (Arsenal) or Russian Commercial model with the adjustable sights. These are still the best values in Makarovs. Stick with the Mak. Its more pleasant to shoot than a Tok and a fine little pistol should you want to carry it.

DAVIDSDIVAD
February 28, 2009, 12:09 PM
Thanks guys, I appreciate you elaborating on your choices.

Oh, that's another thing; would the 7.62x25 be a lot harsher in recoil than the 9x18?

woad_yurt
February 28, 2009, 01:19 PM
The recoil of the Tok is surprisingly minimal. Feels like a 9MM. It's an easy shooting gun. After all, it is only an 85 gr bullet. For practical purposes, the Makarov may be a better choice (size, weight, DA trigger, etc.) The Mak is also way easier to shoot proficiently. As much as I love my Tok and CZ 52s, I'd pick the Mak first.

A question:
If your girl is from a Com Bloc country, will she be thrilled or upset with your surprise? I mean, she may have some very negative feelings associated with the weapons that were used by some very oppressive police agencies. I ask because I once gave my friend's mother some white flowers for her birthday and it turned out that white flowers are used only in funerals in her native country. I caused a very awkward silence for a while there.

grimjaw
February 28, 2009, 02:01 PM
Oh, that's another thing; would the 7.62x25 be a lot harsher in recoil than the 9x18?

Hm, well given the slight difference in operating systems between the two pistols, I think it'll be the same but different. :)

The Tokarev tames its higher velocity round a bit with the short recoil system. In my experience, it has more muzzle flip than the Makarov and the grip angle is a little awkward. However, the blowback Makarov tended to sting my hand a little after prolonged shooting, and that doesn't happen with the Tokarev.

Even with the Tokarev being single action, I found the Makarov trigger to be a little lighter in SA and less 'rickety', for lack of a better word.

Some of it will be subjective, though, and the only real way to see if it's too harsh for her will be to let her try them both if you can.

jm

dobrzemetal
February 28, 2009, 02:42 PM
Best of luck when looking for a russian made makarov, I had trouble even finding a nice bulgy. Like the astute gentlemen above stated, the russain ones are not the quality of a bugly and your most likely going to pay MORE for a russian one anyway. If anything I don't know how she feels about rifles but you could always pick up a mosin rifle, thats 100% russian.

On the where to find one?: good luck
How much to pay?: For a nice mak, expect over 300 but under 500
As for quality: E. German, Bulgy, Russian, Chinese

makarovnik
February 28, 2009, 03:52 PM
The Toakarev is the softer shooter of the two. The makarov is shooting about the maximum caliber that can be shot safely from an unlocked breech. Yeah I know a few guns like Hi-Point use an unlocked breech for larger calibers but that's rare.

Anyway they are both good guns and the tokarev is actually very concealable for it's size. The makarov has the advantage of double action if you like that.

I own both. I like to collect com bloc arms because they just seem to work. I have a russian mak and a polish tok.

BHP FAN
February 28, 2009, 04:06 PM
I have both.I converted my Tokarev to 9mm back in the 90's,when 7.62x
25 wasn't as common as it is now [in this country] so recoil is similar to the Mak.I like the sight radius on the Tokarev better than the Mak,and my grips are the Tokagypt palm swell style,so the gun FEELS like a .45 in the hand,and I like that.On the other hand I have a Pearce grip on the Bulgarian Makarov so it is pretty comfy too.Also it would be pretty easy to carry.
You'd better buy both.

mordechaianiliewicz
February 28, 2009, 04:45 PM
Go with Tokarev.

TehK1w1
February 28, 2009, 06:56 PM
Makarov prices have been rising for a while, I haven't seen one under $300 for at least a year. Just FYI, the Mak is one of those rare guns that you have to abuse to make it malfunction-I've got over 500 flawless rounds through mine.

DAVIDSDIVAD
February 28, 2009, 09:54 PM
A question:
If your girl is from a Com Bloc country, will she be thrilled or upset with your surprise? I mean, she may have some very negative feelings associated with the weapons that were used by some very oppressive police agencies. I ask because I once gave my friend's mother some white flowers for her birthday and it turned out that white flowers are used only in funerals in her native country. I caused a very awkward silence for a while there.

well, she's a pretty smart, logical person. That, and she really liked my 1911. I just thought it would be a neat thing for her to be able to use something her country always had a position of "no, no- bad citizen" on

Thanks everyone, I'll keep your advice in mind.

No mosins, though; I don't want to break her shoulder :)

wnycollector
March 1, 2009, 02:24 PM
I know that you want a russian pistol BUT a BIG +1 on the polish Tok suggestion...they really are the cream of the crop!

Joe Demko
March 1, 2009, 05:54 PM
If your girl's an ethnic Russian, any combloc manufactured weapon should do. IME, a good many Russians have some rather nostalgiac memories of the USSR. They remember those days as a high point of national influence and prestige for their country. They also considered the other "republics" to be virtual provinces of Mother Russia.
My wife, now, is from Ukraine. She likes Makarovs, Tokarevs, AK's, SKS's and such quite well. She's also more pleased than not that all of our examples were manufactured in countries other than Russia. The Ukrainians, Bulgarians, et. al. largely do not share the Russian nostalgia for the CCCP.

feudalson
March 1, 2009, 05:57 PM
i only have experance with the 9mak and for me and my father who also has one.. its been a great round.. we have the pa-63 platforms and that is also the gun i suggest you try to aquire... you can find them from 150 - 200 sometimes less sometimes more.. anyways happy hunting

doubs43
March 1, 2009, 07:14 PM
No love for the CZ-82? That would be my choice and a pistol I'd love to have after her visit ends. They are typical CZ quality, have two 12-round mags and are a terrific value at $200 ~ $229.

It won't hurt to consider them.

krs
March 1, 2009, 07:15 PM
I'll have to recommend an East German Makarov since no one has before me. Are they so unobtainable that people have given up ever finding one?

Bulgarian, Russian commercial, the PA-63??!! Yuch! I'm surprised no one recomended the Russian made double stacker Makarov that exasperated even died in the wool MAK lovers so badly during it's brief appearance in our market.

Go get yourself the best of the bunch: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=123793617

BlackHand1917
March 1, 2009, 07:18 PM
If cheapness of ammo is a major consideration, go for the Tokarev. Lots of cheap military surplus in 7.62X25 is available despite the great ammo shortages out there right now. I have resuurected my CZ-52 from the back of the safe to take advantage of this cheap ammo.

Pilot
March 1, 2009, 07:29 PM
I'll have to recommend an East German Makarov since no one has before me. Are they so unobtainable that people have given up ever finding one?

Bulgarian, Russian commercial, the PA-63??!! Yuch! I'm surprised no one recomended the Russian made double stacker Makarov that exasperated even died in the wool MAK lovers so badly during it's brief appearance in our market.

Go get yourself the best of the bunch: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=123793617


Yes, EG Maks are the best quality but your going to pay a huge premium for them. Your auction is starting at $345. A nice Bulgarian or Russian Commercial should only cost around $200 - $250.

I would get a Bulgie. The quality is excellent, its got the fixed sights and they shoot great as all Maks do. The double stack Maks were fine. You can even use the single stack mags in them.

woad_yurt
March 1, 2009, 08:21 PM
Hey, hey, hey, ease up on the PA-63! I did a heavier recoil & lighter hammer spring swap (Wolff springs) and now it's a great gun. Even with the springs, I have less than $200 into the gun. It's accurate, light, affordable, doesn't jam and it looks good.

kirkcdl
March 2, 2009, 12:09 PM
krs,although I will agree the EG Maks are the prettiest,my Bulgy has a better trigger...

That said,it's pretty lowbrow to recommend YOUR auction to someone just looking for advice...

kenjs1
March 2, 2009, 03:09 PM
Woad_yurt, glad you chimed in to defend the FEG. I have a PA-63 and did the same upgrades and it is much improved but to say it is a "great gun".........hmmm....might be a stretch. I love its size and the Mak round though. I enjoy my Polish Tokarev much better - though the trgger mechanism leaves something to be desired. Love to fire that off at dusk!! It is WAY easier on the hand than the FEG. I have a CZ 40P and a Kimber Pro Carry and one or the other might be a littel more closely approaching great pistol -ness, but all things are subjective I guess.

RockyMtnTactical
March 2, 2009, 04:05 PM
Why does it have to be Russian?

woad_yurt
March 2, 2009, 06:01 PM
kenjs1:
Let me clarify. I use the Feg as a carry gun, not a mega-round range gun. It's great for carry but not for the range.

Dain Bramage
March 2, 2009, 06:45 PM
Let me clarify. I use the Feg as a carry gun, not a meg-round range gun. It's great for carry but not for the range.


Also, my PA-63 is more accurate than my Bulgy Makarov. It's fun to rip a 2.5" group at 25 yards from a fixed-sight service weapon that cost me $99.99. :D

woad_yurt
March 2, 2009, 07:10 PM
My next thing will be a pair of flat grips for the thing. I hate the bump.

wnycollector
March 2, 2009, 07:56 PM
My next thing will be a pair of flat grips for the thing.

FYI http://www.marschalgrips.com/?content=FEG-models
http://www.marschalgrips.com/fegpa63/fegpa63.html

MrFox
March 2, 2009, 09:07 PM
I carry a CZ-82 daily in a Crossbreed.

I had a hard time finding something that was everything I wanted. Cheap, high(er) capacity, C&R, goes boom every time, big enough for my hands but small enough to carry, etc etc.

It was either a Bersa, P-11, or a CZ-82, and I went with the cheap one.

It isn't a true MAK, but close enough for me. I say CZ-82. Even though its not an option. :neener:

I drink the CZ surplus kool-aid.

DAVIDSDIVAD
March 3, 2009, 12:17 AM
Why does it have to be Russian?

I guess it doesn't abso-defin-utely have to be Russian, but I just wanted to give her the chance to use something she's seen all her life on the hips of oppressive cops.


to clarify even more; My girlfriend is Russian, grew up in Russia, and is coming to visit this summer.


Also, is it even legal for me to take her shooting?

Would handing her the pistol at the range constitute an illegal transfer?

grimjaw
March 3, 2009, 12:24 AM
As far as looks go, the Bulgy Maks will look almost exactly the same, with a little different inscriptions on them. You could always get a set of Russian grips for it, too. Probably cheaper than an entirely Russian gun.

jm

DAVIDSDIVAD
March 5, 2009, 05:30 PM
As far as looks go, the Bulgy Maks will look almost exactly the same, with a little different inscriptions on them. You could always get a set of Russian grips for it, too. Probably cheaper than an entirely Russian gun.

jm

That's quite an idea; thanks!

john11139
March 16, 2009, 01:38 PM
Just bought a CZ82 a few days ago. Dealer had several. I got my pick. 2 clips, holster, cleaning rod. $219. Gun shows no wear other than a little holster wear on the end of the barrel. For that price and quality of gun I dont think you could beat it with a big stick. I just wish it was a standared 9mm as ammo is hard to get in my area and not much selection in bullets.

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